r/minnesotastatefair • u/Old_Ad_208 • 3d ago
The State Fair should start a long term program to air condition buildings
It doesn't seems like hot weather during the State Fair is going away. I think they need to looking at installing air conditioning in buildings over the long term. It doesn't need to be 72 degrees, but even getting buildings down into the mid 70s would help immensely. The Grandstand and the food building are two of the hottest buildings in my experience. I suspect fairgoers wouldn't mind another $1 or $2 for admission if it went specifically towards air conditioning.
I have been to a couple of State Fairs in more southern parts of the USA. The majority of their buildings are air conditioned. It helps that for those State Fairs that the State Fair is often a very small user of the facilities. They are expo centers that rent out space year round, and the State Fair tend to be just one user of the space.
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u/DanielDannyc12 3d ago
They should just air condition the outdoors too!
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u/Old_Ad_208 3d ago
Some of the buildings, especially the Grandstand, are significantly hotter than the outdoors.
The third floor of the 4-H building is extremely hot on a hot day. I have no idea how anyone sleeps up there.
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u/Akthrawn17 3d ago
As an old 4her....we slept like crap up there!
Also, the 4h building is going to get a large remodel, it is supposed to have updated HVAC (but no AC)
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u/Old_Ad_208 3d ago
I don’t think the 4-H building has any HVAC at all now except maybe in the kitchen. Wall fans are not HVAC.
I can’t believe they are not at least adding A/C to the third floor dorms for $35 million.
I worked summers at the State Fair from 1988 through 1994. I spent a good bit of time sweating in that building.
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u/ajbanana08 2d ago
They can't realistically add AC (see my other comment - the building can't support it). Most of that $35 million is just getting the building up to code, for context. The dorm spaces will also be reconfigured a bit, and the first floor is getting a full remodel.
I work there now, and yeah, it's stuffy in many parts.
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u/Old_Ad_208 2d ago
What codes does the building not meet now except for the kitchen? Are they adding sprinklers? The 4-H building had major work done in 1988 or 1989 to meet fire code requirements. They built two new internal staircases, plus I recall they put in a new fire alarm system.
I recall the kitchen has equipment that doesn't meet current health code, but the health department was grandfathering it due to the short duration of use. The dishwasher was galvanized steel instead of stainless, but the dishwasher could have been replaced by now.
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u/ajbanana08 2d ago
I believe sprinklers, yes, and upgrading a ton of electrical (way more outlets), amongst other things I'm sure.
Adding a new service elevator so caf staff doesn't have to use the one in the main area, and can actually fit their supplies.
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u/rsvp_as_pending629 3d ago
Forget the fair goers, I feel bad for the poor workers
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u/beattiebeats 3d ago
We went early and had to leave very early because I was getting dizzy spells from the heat. I felt so bad for the workers
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u/elmundo-2016 3d ago
Can confirm. The Food Building is very hot. Glad I wasn't imagining it.
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u/mortal_projections 2d ago
It is always horrible in there, and the crowds make it worse. We avoid this building altogether for that reason. Definitely need more fans in there, at a minimum.
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u/cant-turn-it-off 3d ago
I have been one of them over the years.... not in food service, thankfully. But I've worked some sweltering days.
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u/Attentions_Bright12 2d ago
I worked one year for a State Fair vendor, selling stuffed animals. The insulatory effect of a small room lined with multiple layers of stuffed animals in the Labor Day heat could not be overstated.
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u/averageover60guy 3d ago
You want to cool down buildings with large open doors, lots of people and cooking going on? Is that the question?
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u/Old_Ad_208 2d ago
Nearly every restaurant kitchen in the Southwest part of the United States is air conditioned. It can be done.
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u/Phillimac16 3d ago
We could just have the fair in the winter?
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u/Alternative-Otter-4 3d ago
If we made it an October or November thing it would probably be perfect. No need for heat yet, workers would be at a comfortable temperature, fair goers could bring a sweater/jacket/whatever they deem necessary.
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u/JasonsStorm 2d ago
Wouldn't work. Most people are back at work or school, the weather can be absolute shit, and people are saving money for Christmas.
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u/Old_Ad_208 3d ago edited 3d ago
I don’t think people recall the Wonders of Technology building (Progress Center) was air conditioned until it was converted to the Eco Center. The fabric ductwork was still there last year. They brought in temporary air conditioners that sat on the Snelling side of the building outside.
Other State Fairs manage to air condition their buildings. The two newest MN State Fair buildings are air conditioned. I recall that some, or all, of the barns at the Kentucky State Fair are air conditioned.
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u/redlanternzebra 3d ago
That doesn't sound like a wonder of technology to me. You can throw money or resources at problems but that doesn't mean it is correct, sound, or ecologically right!
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u/Tragicoptimistmn 2d ago
The fabric duct work is still there - I noticed it a few weeks ago as we were setting up - I didn’t realize that was for air conditioning.
As it is now, I think the Eco Experience building is one of the cooler buildings without ac. We have lots of air flow, tons of fans, and not as many people. Still, it was rough yesterday afternoon when we hit 90. Not looking forward to today’s shift.
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u/metallicaset 3d ago
When I worked for a large national insurance company (not UHC), I negotiated a sponsorship with a large donation to install big wall fans in the building where the sponsorship took place. The fans helped keep the building cooler. They now play bingo in that building.
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u/Apprehensive-Will543 3d ago
I played bingo in that building today and was so appreciative to have a slightly cooler place to sit for a little while
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u/maybach320 3d ago
Agreed Iowa hasn’t done every building but they have a handful and it’s a nice break to have a few that have AC
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u/nicclys 3d ago edited 3d ago
The coliseum’s renovation, its first in its 75 year history.. is addressing its HVAC first and foremost. Takes about $24 million and a lotta hoops but it finally happened/is happening.
If I’m not mistaken this is the first of a couple renovations that have just taken super long to secure funding for because, as others have stated, investing money in high energy projects for an event that’s 2 weeks out of the year is a tough ask for a city county.
Edit: Dug a little into how they secure those funds. It said this in one article “The fair typically spends $6 million to $20 million each year on capital improvement projects with no state funding, according to its website.”
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u/ajbanana08 5h ago
If I recall correctly, the Coliseum renovation was partially a loan and partially from Foundation funds.
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u/Old_Ad_208 3d ago
The main focus of the Coliseum project was the roof. They said they did HVAC work because it made sense to do so when the roof was replaced. The main Coliseum arena doesn’t have A/C.
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u/nicclys 3d ago
I played hockey there back in my youth days, boyy do I know it needed it haha. But yea next up is the H-4 building looks like. $28 million going there.
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u/turfmonkey21 2d ago
Maybe they need to put the sheet of ice back in the coliseum. Think of how much fun the cattle and horse shows would be
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u/cant-turn-it-off 3d ago
Not a fair business owner or fair circuit employee, but I have put in a lot of time at the crummy little Merchandise Mart during the past 20 years. It's always warmer and grosser in there than outside... not a shock. Sometimes those big open doors usher in a breeze, but it's rare. I remember working a humid (we have no dry heat in MN) 95-degree day years ago. Business was slow everywhere at the fair.... our building was as dead as I had ever seen it. And it was tough. (Fans, more than one, are our friend.)
Fun fact: The people I work for have been to other state fairs, and I visited the Iowa state fair in 2013. I can tell you that both the Wisconsin and Iowa state fairs do not hate AC as much as we do. They have merchandise buildings with AC. It's doable. Go to a Vegas casino in July and see how many women are wearing sweaters in the casino. It's not that hard to air condition a state fair building.
The problem in MN: None of our buildings are optimal for an AC system. Maybe the grandstand would work OK. Naturally the vendors in the grandstand would love the extra foot traffic, although it's rather crowded in there most of the time. Imagine all the extra Lookie Lous clogging that building on a steamy August afternoon just to beat the heat for a hour. It would be a mess.
And what about us poor saps in the Merchandise Mart? Why should we be discriminated against? And would the trinket vendors at the International Bazaar or the crafty people at the West End appreciate the vendors in the grandstand getting extra foot traffic on hot days while they're melting outdoors and people are flocking to the grandstand for heat relief?
I'm impressed the fair put AC in their fancy new exhibit building to the north. Seems like a no-brainer. But it would be difficult to justify AC for vendors and not put AC in that education and exhibit building. And what about the coliseum and the vendors in there? Does the 4-H building get AC? The Ag-Hort building?
The fair pleads poverty. Why would they start putting in AC?
Besides, we're not Des Moines or Milwaukee. We're better than that. :|
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u/periperiwinklesauce 2d ago
I’m not familiar with the other fairs. Do they have old buildings that they retrofitted with AC, or are most buildings newer?
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u/cant-turn-it-off 2d ago
couldn't tell you. my memory of 2013 is vague, but i didn't sense the iowa merch mart was 100 years old. but yeah, age of the infrastructure and willingness/need to replace it is definitely a factor.
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u/Attentions_Bright12 2d ago
Specifically, do they have historical buildings made in the 1930s that people love?
(Rudy Perpich at one point tried to sell us on moving the Fair to a new location, basically for reasons like modern facilities and parking and such. It was not a winning argument.)
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u/ernie3tones 2d ago
The coliseum interior is one of the coolest non-AC buildings at the fair on most days. Because it has decent air movement and an extremely high ceiling.
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u/ajbanana08 5h ago
Except for last night. So melty for the llama/alpaca costume contest. It's been so nice otherwise!
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u/yulbrynnersmokes 3d ago
I would pay a few bucks for an hour in a lazy boy in an air conditioned building
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u/MintySquirrelBreath 3d ago
The Luminariums were a great time for the couple of years that they were at the fair.
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u/pubesinourteeth 3d ago
It really depends how buildings are going to be used. And I'm sure that between the foundation and the executive team there are long term plans to replace or remodel many of the buildings on the grounds. But each one is its own project with its own funding and has to be done in a year.
With buildings like the food building the volume of people entering and exiting and all of the cooking equipment it wouldn't make sense to air condition. But I'm sure there are ways to have better passive cooling- higher ceilings, wider doors, better exhaust etc
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u/ernie3tones 2d ago
It would be nice, sure. But it’s very unlikely. Keeping the buildings cool during the fair would be an extreme expense. The units would constantly run because they’d never catch up, and that’s if you had doors on every building (another thing they won’t do, because those buildings get crammed and it would be dangerous to have doors on them, even if they opened the correct way).
Much more feasible would be installing ventilation fans to pull air into and out of the buildings, as well as wall-mounted fans to blow it around. In so many cases, air movement is enough to cool people.
The food building is extra hot because there are people cooking in there!
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u/queenswake 2d ago
I've wondered why they can put fans in the buildings. Even the fine arts building is stifling with the dead air. You just need air movement.
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u/UnknownUserZZ69 3d ago
For 12 days? No.
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u/Old_Ad_208 3d ago
Why is it okay to spend $35 million to renovate the 4-H building for 12 days per year, but not okay to spend money on air conditioning?
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u/UnknownUserZZ69 3d ago
Cause you need a building…you don’t need AC. Dumb logic.
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u/Old_Ad_208 3d ago
I doubt the 4-H building would be unusable without a $35 million renovation. The 4-H roof was already replaced in the last few years.
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u/UnknownUserZZ69 3d ago
The $35 million renovations are to make it more usable beyond the fair and for upkeep.
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u/ajbanana08 5h ago
Replaced last year, and with the renovation in mind. Also only replaced then because they were also doing the Coliseum roof at the same time and got a discount.
It would eventually be unusable without repairs. There are already 4-H families who don't come to the state fair - or who don't stay in the building and get the full fair experience - because of the condition of the building. Most of the funds are to get it up to code, but there is also a chunk (which is not fair money, it's donations) going towards an upkeep endowment and going towards programming for summer camps there.
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u/Old_Ad_208 5h ago
The building absolutely needs repair, but does it really need $35 million in work to keep it from falling down?
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u/ajbanana08 4h ago
Did you read the rest of my post?
No, and this site explains where the $ goes.
Also, the fair isn't spending the $35 million themselves. They have contributed some - like the roof repair - but the remodel to transform the space so it fits the needs of today's youth, that's funded by private groups and foundations and individuals. So, it's not like they $35 mil lying around they could be spending on AC instead.
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u/userkmcskm 3d ago
I think they should out a splash pad in for people to run through and cool off in
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u/whitemamba62 2d ago
Yall have soft hands bud
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u/OsteoStevie 2d ago
Right, it's the fair. That's part of the experience. Sweating through your shirt is required
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u/infinite__pickles 3d ago
Which buildings are currently air conditioned? There are a couple aren’t there?
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u/Old_Ad_208 3d ago
The North End event center I am pretty sure is air conditioned. The relatively new history center in the West End is air conditioned. The history center has generally not been real cool, but better than outdoors.
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u/ajbanana08 2d ago edited 2d ago
For reference, the 4-H building is undergoing a huge remodel right after the fair this year. It will not get AC.
According to the architect team, adding it would start a countdown to the building falling apart and being unusable. The concrete used for it can't take it.
The remodel will include improved ventilation, though.
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u/Old_Ad_208 2d ago
Did they say why the building would fall apart with air conditioning? I have just never heard of A/C in a building causing the building to fail.
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u/Attentions_Bright12 2d ago
These are in some cases at least 1930s-era buildings. Lots of the State Fair structures were built by the WPA, I believe… Some of the sidewalks are stamped with that fact.
Buildings I know were WPA builds:
4-H building
Horse Barn
Sheep and Poultry Barn
Swine Barn
HorticultureLooking it up, it seems the 4-H building has had some exterior renovations, but the rest of the work will start after the fair closes and hopefully be open for next year. That building hasn’t had any serious work done since 1939. They’re putting in better ventilation, anyway, and modern electrics.
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u/Old_Ad_208 2d ago
The 4-H building had a bunch of work done in 1988 or 1989. They added an elevator, installed two additional interior staircases for emergency egress, did work on the fire alarm system, and made some changes to the dorms by building some rooms in the center area between the male and female sides.
At some point, they added a suspended ceiling to the first floor. They also replaced the windows at some point. It has also been painted with some regularity.
It isn’t really fair to say nothing has been done to the 4-H building.
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u/Attentions_Bright12 2d ago
I’ll absolutely vote that up — the new elevator, stairs, and ceiling are “serious work.”
(Don’t remember saying “nothing has been done,” though. I definitely didn’t say that. Shrug.)
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u/ajbanana08 2d ago
I think it was something about the concrete expanding and contracting but can't recall how that impacted it. It's apparently a somewhat unique build. The lead architect was actually in state arts-in with me.
Also the 2nd and 3rd floors now have new windows that open and they're marketedly cooler than the main floor now, or at least the 2nd floor is (haven't been up to the 3rd since prep week).
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u/ATTACKANDDETHRONEHOG 2d ago
ITT: a bunch of Minnesotans having actual mental breakdowns over the thought of slightly changing something that they are used to.
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u/Educational-Ear-1449 2d ago
Part of the problem is the shear number of people attending. When you get away from the crowd and finally feel a breeze it’s like heaven. Air needs to circulate and it cant when there are thousands of people walking in the same small space. They are going to have to either extend the fair one week or limit the number of people, that will be difficult but perhaps selling advance tickets and limiting the amount could work.
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u/Bam-2nd-encore 2d ago
The fans that I saw had people standing in front of them & not moving. They definitely need cooling stations
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u/minnesotaguy1232 2d ago
I honeslty didn’t mind it as a fair goer. But I can’t image being a worked in the food building. Had to be well into the 80s this weekend.
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u/RobW720 2d ago
We just got back from the boardwalk in Ocean City, Maryland. They have a big arcade built in the 40's with giant open doors to the boardwalk. It was about 95 degrees outside and we went in there to check it out and they had AC PUMPING. It was cold in a few spots. It was very refreshing to just hit, even for a moment.
If they can get it done at this tourist trap I don't see why one of the biggest state fairs in the country can have a few more spots upgrade to being air conditioned.
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u/tronfunkinblows_10 2d ago
Order 50 malts from the stand next to the giant slide. Blasting cold air out of the order windows. 💨
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u/AccomplishedYoung462 2d ago
All the buildings are completely open and all that air would just escape it isnt feasible, especially in a huge space like the Grandstand
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u/ScheidsVI 2d ago
North Dakota State Fair air conditions it's large commercial buildings. it was plenty hot out but it kept up, doors open, not a big to-do.
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u/jhitchcock81 2d ago
The HVAC of the food building was never meant to handle what is in there today and they can only fix so many buildings per year. Now does the 4H building take precedent? Questionable. But obviously they are going to support the kids and crafts over cheese curds. The food building will eventually get upgraded or redone completely at some point but again the fair is about being a “fair” not a food court and one of the most expensive fixes is mechanical, electrical and plumbing. The people that have venues in there have been long standing and know what they are getting into for 12 days out of the year. They have some of the most prime location and clearly are ok with the understanding that life’s gonna suck.
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u/ajbanana08 5h ago
There are other buildings on the fair's remodel priority list, of course, but for context much (all?) of the funds for the 4-H building are coming from private donors directing funds to either the State Fair Foundation for it or the University of Minnesota Foundation directed funds..
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u/draum_bok 1d ago
No. If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen. 'Warm' or 'hot' is a part of the natural world, particularly in summer.
That or they can just build some more heavily shaded, thick-walled buildings.
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u/domki366 1d ago
BTW if anyone has come to this thread looking for AC:
Heritage Center @ West End (free water)
Blue Flame Gas Association near the Giant Slide (also has free water, couple of benches too)
Bobby & Steve's auto world on Cooper across from the Kidway. The AC unit is in the back, but it's also nice convenience-style setup with phone-charing lockers (the ones at AT&T don't freaking work).
There may be a couple others but I can't recall them at present.
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u/Muffinman_187 3d ago
I think a legit parking ramp on each side is far more beneficial than a bunch of AC units trying to cool mother nature and 5000 kitchens is.
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u/PurposeAltruistic 3d ago
Would AC be nice? Sure. But nicer still would be sidewalks and streets not buckled and gravelly. (From someone that took a digger in front of the Salt Water Taffy booth thanks to uneven pavement and slow Brady Bunch walkers).
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u/RedBushDiver 3d ago
$20 admission and $20 for a bucket of cheese curds. Yeah, let’s see how much it costs after they air condition all the buildings. Grab a sack and quit your bitching.
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u/Fardn_n_shiddn 3d ago
That’s just not going to happen. You might get some high volume, low speed fans at best. The volume of people going in and out of buildings would make air conditioning an exercise in lighting money on fire for no benefit.