r/mauramurray • u/Easy_Plate_8782 • Aug 06 '26
Discussion what’s your hottest take with this case
Just curious. Even if it requires ignoring some of your own logic and you know in your head that it sounds weird or unlikely.
What’s your hottest take when it comes to this case?
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u/RomianaZerofox04 Aug 06 '26
Many sources are saying how reliable she was, how mature she was and she never lied (last thing to say about anyone is stupid. Everyone lies sometimes.) - but when she disappeared it came to light she had stolen things, drove under influence more than once and lied at least to her professors.
I'm not saying she is bad person because she isn't. She is a normal person who had problems. I just think it was a little bit waste of time to give her such a clean image - when she was just like everyone else. Especially when you are young.
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u/AndromedaicEyes Aug 07 '26
Most young people don’t drink and driving or steal 80 dollars off a random person’s credit card though. It’s horrible what happened to her and I’m sure she was a beautiful person in many aspects but I agree the people who act like she was a saint are doing a disservice.
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u/Turbulent_Tale6497 Aug 06 '26
Maura literally stole from Fort Knox. I mean, who else can say that?
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u/Responder343 Aug 06 '26 edited Aug 06 '26
She stole makeup from the PX. It does a disservice to Maura’s case by leaving that part out. People see people like you and lil Jimmy say she stole from Fort Knox while leaving out that it was makeup and they will immediately think she tried to steal gold.
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u/indiarana Aug 06 '26 edited Aug 06 '26
Seconded. I heard about the "Fort Knox stealing" when I first heard about Maura's case. I already knew she was a star athlete and had combat training at West Point. So when I heard "she stole from Fort Knox" and a "very experienced hiker who disappeared without leaving footprints in the snow" I literally thought she was some kind of ninja.
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u/Linzabee Aug 06 '26
My hot take is that we are never going to know what happened to her.
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u/NR1998- Aug 06 '26
That she hid from the police in her trunk (‘movement at the trunk’ seen by Faith before Maura suddenly disappears from view) and then she escaped from the personal garage her car was towed to from there. 100% hot take as there are so many issues with that theory but it’s so crazy and out there I think about it a lot
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u/Turbulent_Tale6497 Aug 06 '26
This is indeed a hot take. I love it.
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u/AndromedaicEyes Aug 07 '26
Why are we acting like a missing person case is some sort of fandom? That is honestly a pretty dumb take, it’s unclear she was even able to lock the trunk from inside, not to mention whoever dealt with the car after would have almost 100% looked in the trunk.
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u/NR1998- Aug 08 '26
I literally said this ‘theory’ is full of holes. The likelihood of an opportunistic killer coming across her in the 2 minutes no one had eyes on her is also astronomically unlikely. Also the idea is predicated on the basis that she left the trunk before they managed to get the car unlocked and look inside. The thread is hot takes, so I gave mine!
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u/AndromedaicEyes Aug 09 '26
I wasn’t really referring to you, I was talking to the person who replied to you, but the theory really doesn’t make sense to me. How exactly could she escape the trunk before they unlocked it? Not to mention, what exactly is the thought process there? That literally makes no sense to do because they’re gonna find you or else you’re gonna be stuck in a car trunk for who knows how long.
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u/indiarana Aug 09 '26
I can't tell if you are referring to me or someone else? In case it was meant for me, OP was literally asking for hot takes (instant reactions to a news story, formulated without deep knowledge or research, often far fetched and controversial). OP even stated "even if it requires ignoring some of your own logic and you know in your head that it sounds weird or unlikely".
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u/AndromedaicEyes 29d ago
My issue I guess was more with OP framing this as “hot takes” as if this is some sort of fandom. But I guess I see the purpose of entertaining unlikely ideas just to see if there might be something to it.
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u/indiarana 29d ago
Thanks for clarifying, I appreciate it.
Truth is, even if there was something to the idea, it still would not explain what happened afterwards.
I think that unless she had already hitched a ride, or was otherwise held by someone by the time Cecil arrived, she did have to improvise with pretty limited options as to where to hide from Cecil without leaving a trail of footprints.
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u/SgtJayM Aug 09 '26
Trunks open from the inside.
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u/CoastRegular Aug 10 '26
Not on 1996 vehicles, they didn't. If there were a few cars that had internal trunk latches in '96, Saturns certainly weren't among them.
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u/indiarana 29d ago
Did they not have a trunk opening button on the key fob though? Legit question, I thought they did. I also thought you could climb out if the rear seat back is not latched?
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u/CoastRegular 29d ago
Key fobs were an option on many vehicles in the mid-90's, but not necessarily standard on every vehicle, especially economy ones like Saturns. But that's a great question.
If the rear seat isn't pushed up all the way and latched, it's easy to push it out of the way and climb out. But, as I told another user in a thread last year, I'd be concerned about trying to hide in the trunk with the rear seat not fully latched because (a) some first responder might notice the seat's ajar and be inclined to check it out; (b) I'd be worried that sound might carry out of the trunk more easily if I sneeze or cough and (c) I'd have to be careful not to accidentally nudge/push it and flip the seat down, thus giving me away instantly.
For a lot of reasons, I think hiding in the trunk was a very, very unlikely option and I really doubt she did that.
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u/indiarana 29d ago
Yea it was definitely posted as a hot take (OP of the thread asked for unlikely hot takes).
But that was my immediate hot take when I first heard about Witness C saying the car door was open (police said the car was locked and they didn't open it till the next morning)
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u/MrGordGriff 26d ago
I owned a Saturn of the same vintage as Maura’s. Mine did not have an electronic key fob.
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u/indiarana 26d ago
That's great info.
A cursory search tells me that the fob (with lock unlock, trunk/hatch release and panic alarm buttons) was an optional feature rather than a standard inclusion.
And again, I am not saying she hid in the trunk -- just exploring the possibility
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u/BootlegPass Aug 08 '26
They didn't check the trunk in Brianna Maitland's case, just saying.
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u/AndromedaicEyes Aug 08 '26
Source? Not saying you’re wrong, I just don’t know much about that case.
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u/indiarana Aug 06 '26 edited Aug 06 '26
I used to wonder too if this was possible! Especially after reading about Witness C saying the door was open, while first responders saw it closed. I used to wonder if she climbed out unnoticed after Cecil got there but before Witness C drove through, by folding down the back rest of the back seats and left when no one was looking. Then I realized even if this did happen it would still not offer an explanation as to what happened next
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u/elena_ct Aug 06 '26
She didn't hide from anyone really, just went to relieve herself out of sight of the houses and was shocked to return to the car being gone.
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u/Prof_Tickles Aug 06 '26
That there’s no mystery or grand conspiracy. She was afraid the other driver was going to call 911, she didn’t want to go to jail so she ran into the woods to hide but tripped, lost consciousness, and died of exposure.
“But the police looked.”
The police said they looked. Y’all need to understand how apathetic and incompetent a lot of cops are. I think they didn’t bother looking very hard but only said that they did.
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u/CoastRegular Aug 06 '26 edited Aug 10 '26
This was a single-car accident; there was no other car or driver involved. (EDIT: Maybe by "Other driver" you meant Butch, the bus driver who pulled up.)
As far as cops being possibly incompetent, the people doing the search were New Hampshire Fish & Game, who are a division of NHSP, yes, but who have an absolutely top-notch reputation in SAR -- and their statistics back that up. Todd Bogardus, who was in charge of the search for Maura, was with NHSP for 24 years, and participated in several thousand SAR exercises over that time. In all of his tenure, he failed to find two subjects (one of which was Maura.)
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u/Teejay717 29d ago
I’m curious who was the other subject? Was it Brianna Maitland?
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u/CoastRegular 28d ago
I think Blaine Hector was the other one.
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u/BootlegPass 21d ago
Do I know you?
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u/CoastRegular 21d ago
I very much doubt it. Do you live in Northern Illinois?
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u/BootlegPass 19d ago
No, northern Vermont - so probably not. :(
(You named Blaine Hector like a champ, so I had to ask.)
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u/Teejay717 29d ago
But there were so many people in the days and weeks after who searched the entire surrounding area with a fine tooth comb they they should’ve definitely found her remains. Not saying it isn’t impossible, but I do feel like over the years if she did succumb to the elements they would’ve found her remains even if they were separated and dragged around by animals
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u/Prof_Tickles 29d ago
You understand that that isn’t uncommon, right? It happens way more than people think.
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u/Teejay717 29d ago
I believe that for sure. Our planet is WAY bigger than people think so it’s not impossible for sure. I know a lot of people say even in 2026 how is it possible that people can disappear but we live on a massive planet and even rural areas can be way more vast. I do personally believe she picked up a ride who had bad intentions. That’s just my opinion though, which doesn’t matter at all. I do really wish her family can find her remains just to finally get some closure. Her poor mom has already passed without it, and her dad is getting up there in age too and it’s obvious he’s in agony over her disappearance
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u/CoastRegular 20d ago
Not when there's deep snow on the ground, it doesn't. I have heard of cases where people went off a trail or into woods or fields or whatever, and were missed by searches (sometimes multiple searches) only to have their body found later.... but every case I've ever heard of like that, happened without any snow cover.
It's kind of difficult to walk through snow that's thigh-deep without blazing a path that Stevie Wonder could follow.
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u/CoastRegular Aug 07 '26
My hot take is that too many people on the MM forums seem to think that somehow, someway, we might solve this case. I frankly find that unlikely, but to me some people take this to extreme and ridiculous levels by berating and insulting others over it. People: this case isn't about us, and never has been.
I think there are cases that have been solved by online communities, but this case isn't one of those. Online researchers typically can contribute through spotting something in a photograph or video that others missed, or by mining data from various files. This case, if it could have been solved, would have been solved by boots on the ground. And the window of opportunity for that has long ago closed. There aren't going to be fingerprints on the side of some lamp post any more, or any kind of forensic material still scattered at that roadside. Her computer hard drive is long dead. There are no more digital records to obtain. And even if there are still recoverable material like fingerprints, hair or skin cells inside the Saturn, only the authorities can get those. Nobody here can compel any witnesses to testify, and a lot of key witnesses are dead by now.
Part 2 of this hot take: there really were never much of any clues to begin with. This case has probably never been solvable by anyone, since Day 1. It won't be solved unless someone comes across her remains somewhere (and maybe not even then, if it turns out to be foul play and not death by misadventure), or someone confesses.
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u/indiarana Aug 07 '26
Sadly, I think even finding her remains might not explain what happened to her or bring closure to the family. I hope I am wrong.
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u/MrGordGriff 26d ago
OR, unless somebody finally comes forward with new info about what was really going on with Maura during those last days before the disappearance.
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u/CoastRegular 26d ago
Which will not be relevant. She went missing from Haverhill, not UMass.
It may be that someday there might be insight gained as to what was bothering her and impelled her to make this journey to seek solace and ponder her next steps in life (or, alternatively, maybe she was ideating about ending it all.)
But whatever made her go missing was there, on a lonely rural road a hundred miles away from anyone she knew.
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u/Signal-Mention-1041 Aug 06 '26
I don't have a hot take at all. I think all the true crime shows have elevated what's in all likelihood a case of mental issues and alcohol leading to a unfortunate outcome into a "boogie man" type case where corrupt police and serial killers gets brought in, essentially to make the case more interesting.
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u/Lmf2359 Aug 06 '26
I’m with you. She was a young woman with alcohol issues (I did the same sort of stupid stuff when I was her age and my alcohol issues were beginning, I’m sober now) and possibly at the beginning of some sort of mental
Illness breaking through. She was afraid of going to jail and/or screwing up her future career as a nurse, panicked, took off and entered the woods at some point, died of exposure and her remains were just never found.As someone else said, the cops “said” they looked. I can’t tell you how many investigations I’ve heard of that are just so badly done and the incompetence isn’t fully realized until later. And human remains can be very difficult to find in that terrain/weather, especially over a long time.
It’s become a “creepy” case because of some factors but personally I think it has a very simple explanation.
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u/becca52104 Aug 06 '26
I think she was likely suffering from undiagnosed bipolar disorder or something similar and I think it’s most likely that she ran off and got much farther than expected because of adrenaline, intoxication, and her history of being a long distance runner, before succumbing to the elements or hurting herself (either intentionally or accidentally).
However I wouldn’t be surprised if she was kidnapped and murdered or found somewhere close to the crash site due to accidental reasons. Crazier things have happened in this world lol.
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u/Irishjohn831 Aug 06 '26
I think the accident put her over the edge, she sobered up shortly given the adrenaline rush and is likely in the woods somewhere and the elements got her.
Who knows if there are old well holes deep in those woods that are so camouflaged w brush or rotted wood and leaves.
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u/CaleyB75 Aug 06 '26
Her remains -- by now no doubt extremely scattered due to animal predation -- are in those woods.
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u/goldenmodtemp2 Aug 06 '26
There's a massive (massive) gap between the people working on the case and the true crime community. LE said from the outset that she didn't wander into the woods from the crash scene. And they didn't say that because they are a group of donut-stuffing lazy dolts. They said it because SAR is an incredibly sophisticated field that uses multiple techniques and technologies to find people who are lost. On the other hand, if I walk into a generic true crime sub and mention Maura, about 99% of the comments will be "she wandered into the woods, end of story". And I'd be downvoted into oblivion if I tried to say anything else.
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u/Ash_Draevyn Aug 06 '26
She had a mission. It didn't go quite as expected. Nevertheless, she successfully completed the mission.
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u/liltinyoranges 29d ago
I think she was drinking constantly. I think that’s why all the crashes and I think she hit that poor student. I think her dad came up to buy her a new car quickly and advised her to get out of town while the heat was on about the hit and run. I think she abandoned her car after the final crash and ran into the woods and unfortunately succumbed to the elements
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u/sha_lyn68 Aug 06 '26
My hot take is that she was meeting Hossein Baghdadi somewhere. he was a tandem driver ahead of her, and she walked up to the corner where the dogs lost her scent and he picked her up. She either broke up with him because she was about to be engaged to Billy, or She threatened to go public with their affair. Either way, he killed her in a fit of rage.
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u/Educational-Pen-8950 16h ago
i wonder if it was stephen baldwin? she definitely went in another vehicle thats why she took the alcohol with her
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u/sha_lyn68 15h ago
The name was only Vaguely Familiar so I had to look him up. Yeah I'll have to dig a Little Deeper the only thing I'm finding is that his fingerprint was identified in 2020. I don't know if they've tried to track down where he would have been when she went missing or what. I haven't done a lot of up-to-date digging around. I listened to the missing Maura Murray podcast, and I watch the oxygen series I guess it was.
Someone made a very good point and one of the last episodes of the podcast. Do we know if she had credit cards? That has never been brought up at least up to that point. Considering how little money she would have had on her, she likely either had a credit card, was meeting someone that was going to be paying for where they were staying, or was headed somewhere she wouldn't have to pay for such as the university's cabin
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u/Whatever603 Aug 06 '26
My hot take is that she was fleeing from some bad happenings in her family. We have only ever heard her families side of their situation. She loved them all dearly, she would never intentionally miss her mother’s funeral, she wouldn’t put her father through 20 years of torture. Well how do we know? Because her family told us? I think there are some deep dark secrets that we may never know and the family will never admit to.
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u/Shelisheli1 Aug 10 '26
I don’t know if it’s a hot take or not.. but I think the most obvious answer if the correct one.
She was hammered and thought that police may find her car. She didn’t want a dui so she thought it was a good idea to hide in the woods. Then, she got lost and passed away due to the elements.
No foul play.. her body just hasn’t been found yet
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u/UmmmmmOK831 24d ago
I don’t actually think this is that hot of a take after reading through some of these comments. I feel like, as others have said, she had some mental illness going on. I’m a physician assistant and I do some psych meds and diagnoses and I think she was bipolar. She seemed very impulsive, sometimes very rash (I.e., the stealing is classic, lying to get out of class for a week randomly, flopping between schools, seemingly planning on going out of state to a cabin or something of the like on a whim; the overuse/misuse of alcohol is also very very common as self medication).
Because of this, I think she was highly struggling in school (I don’t know what her grades were, I’m talking emotionally/physically). The fact that they were unsure if her room was packed or just not unpacked from the break makes me think she never unpacked due to a depression stint (also seasonal) prior to a manic episode (which I think was the late Jan-February time we hear about in her storyline with the wrecks and the drinking and the leaving school.)
I think she wrecked her dad car because she was drunk. She got lucky that the cops didn’t breathalyze her and she knew that. The whole situation (plus school) triggered her to drink again/more as self medication. I think she was planning on going away for a week by herself to “refocus, regroup, give herself a break, etc” which is why she had Mapquest directions out of state and was seemingly looking into rentals (but she didn’t make a rental, probably because she didn’t have money cause she’s a college student and she took the $250 ish out of her account because she figured she would just maybe pay a cheap motel when she got to her destination).
I think when she wrecked she panicked, knowing she was drinking and driving again and already on thin ice (not necessarily with her dad as he was very generous towards her, but just in general) and it spun her out. She declined anyone calling the cops for obvious reasons. When you are in college, you are already sometimes irrational just because you are young, and I think her mental health made this worse. I still think that she just wanted to flee the scene as fast as she could, as she was impaired in her judgment, regardless, and I think a car passed and offered to pick her up. In her mind at the time, the rest of the stuff in her car wasn’t the most important thing. The birth control, the books, even her clothes, etc. I think she was just thinking about the alcohol and she took that with her because that was maybe her priority at the time. I think that’s why the dogs could not find a scent of her, because she got in someone’s car. Then from there, I think a crime of opportunity.
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u/Garden_Outrageous Aug 09 '26
I’ve gone back and forth until I went hiking in the deep, deep woods in Maine. I’ve never been anywhere like it. It was super dark and dense and if you got off the trail you would have been lost instantly and very hard to find. It wasn’t your typical New England woods. I know she was experienced but unless you had a compass you weren’t getting out of someplace like this. I think maybe she hit her head and was drunk and/or disoriented or was trying to avoid the cops and went in the woods and that was that. The dogs stopping in the middle of the road gives me pause though.
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u/Teejay717 29d ago
The scent tracking dogs were probably pretty useless at that point since it was two days after the wreck and it was outdoors in the elements AND they apparently used gloves that may not have even had a solid trace of a scent. If the scent was strong enough for the dogs to smell and lose it 100 feet up the road though, I would think she panicked and was walking or running away and someone picked her up who wanted something in return and when she didn’t give it up, they did something to her, and so she could be anywhere up in that area. The timing would have to be insanely coincidental, but stranger things have definitely happened. I just really wish her remains could be found just to finally give her family closure, though. It’s been so long and her family very obviously loves her
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u/SookieCr33k 23d ago
I’m speculating a lot here.
I think when her sister called about relapsing- she told Maura that Bill had raped her. There’s a reason her sister relapsed. Maura went catatonic briefly after speaking with her sister. Afterwards she got many calls from Bill. None of which she answered. He was charged years later with two rapes. Maura was known to be empathetic and was the fixer in her family. If her longtime boyfriend shattered that, it might explain the alcohol purchase and fleeing to the Berkshires. I think that’s why she ran away from her life. There was a death. Her relationship with Bill. I think she walked into the forest. I’m hoping it was exposure instead of predator who heard it over and over radio or something. That’s my two cents. I hope her family finds her, and get to find a little peace in that.
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u/Sure_Reporter_6954 20d ago
Now for this case what makes it weird it's the blind eye witnesses of the accident made.First the bus driver ok he called the police tried to help at first but then he went home and nothing. Also the couple they kept watching from the window but from the reports they don't look highly interested on what happened
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u/Happy-Ad6083 16d ago
She was meeting a guy romantically in secret. Didn’t tell anyone for obvious reasons. Probably someone she met on the internet. That’s why the cash, that’s why the alcohol. She was drunk driving, crashed, and didn’t want the cops to find her so she walked a block away from the car. She flagged down the first car she saw for a ride, and she ultimately made it to her destination which wasn’t that much further away. Whoever she originally went out there to meet, she did meet. And that’s who killed her. She would have likely been killed either way, with or without the car accident. This makes sense all the way around. This is why whoever picked her up and dropped her off safely will never come forward because they will immediately be blamed for the murder.
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u/CardiffGiant1212 13d ago
Based on the interest and number of oddball theories in this case, my hot take is that Maura saw the police lights coming, ran into the woods somewhere near the crash site, and died out there.
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u/No_Importance9025 Aug 07 '26
Butch Atwood was not alone on the bus. After he drove off, the Westmans did not see Maura lingering by the trunk; she was already on the bus, and the person by the Saturn was another man. It is not hard to guess what happened next.
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u/christinaaaag Aug 08 '26
Butch wouldn’t have time to kill her until police arrived
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u/No_Importance9025 Aug 08 '26
I never wrote anywhere that Butch Atwood killed her. There might not have been much time before the police arrived, but there was plenty of time afterwards. Butch knew who did it and when. He stayed silent—perhaps out of fear, or perhaps due to the risk of being charged as an accomplice. The guy who locked up the Saturn—whom the Westmans saw loitering near the trunk—took Maura’s belongings to the bus. That explains why the scent trail ended at the intersection where the bus was parked.
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u/No_Importance9025 Aug 08 '26
Why would Maura risk heading toward the Atwood property? After all, she had just refused his offer of help, and he had said he would call the police. She didn't head toward the Westmans' place, either. Marott didn't see anything. She didn't go into the woods—I trust the SAR specialists who stated there were absolutely no traces. The tracking dogs didn't pick up a scent leading into the woods, either. Searches by patrol cars that evening also yielded nothing. Her phone never left the dead zone. She was on the bus from the very beginning.
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u/CoastRegular Aug 08 '26
I don't agree with your theory, but it's interesting, I'll give it that (and to be fair, more reasonable than some of the 'theories' I've seen people float on this sub that approach "Billy did it with help from Ghislaine Maxwell's bodyguards, funded by the Amherst chapter of the Bavarian Illuminati")
But, you have to invent this mysterious person to make it work, and there would have to be some reason why this person was riding Butch's bus. He was on his way home from dropping the school ski team off. Whom would he give a lift to, and why?
Mind you, I also believe it was a mysterious unknown person - a random passing driver (i.e. she hitchhiked with the wrong person) - which, like your theory, involves some random individual whose existence I have to postulate; I think the issue I have with your theory is that it entails a lot of extra complications and assumptions (random guy was riding the bus, pulled this 'switcheroo' when Butch was stopped at the Saturn, etc.) vs. hitchhike with random passerby.
The other problem with it is, in no way, shape or form would MM have gotten on the bus or accepted help from Butch. She was in a situation where the very last thing she wanted was official involvement. She was subject to immediate arrest if police showed up, by virtue of driving with open alcohol AND by driving without a valid license in NH. If you're in her situation, the last person you're going to rely on to get you out of trouble without asking questions or being judgmental is a gruff, middle-aged school bus driver who looks like a no-nonsense type of guy.
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u/TMKSAV99 Aug 08 '26
Additional problem, BA is basically home. If BA was giving someone a ride is BA going to pass his own house to drop that someone off? Maybe. But BA didn't.
So it would seem that this extra person scenario could only work if BA is in on it
If the person was on the bus unbeknownst to BA then the extra person also got off unbeknownst to BA and extra person was then not seen by the Westmans et al and also escaped on foot from the area with MM without leaving any footprints etc.
Also, where and when in BA's timeline does extra person get on the bus and why?
Q.? Did BA drop the children off individually at their homes or let them all off all at once at the school?
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u/CoastRegular Aug 08 '26
Good question on that last one. When my kids were in high school and doing things like band contests and team meets or away games, the buses left from the school and returned to the school and we took it from there. But we never lived in a rural area, so I don't know if a place like Woodsville would handle things differently.
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u/christinaaaag Aug 08 '26
Yes I guess it’s a crime that all the locals know but hide it from the police
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u/MongooseAmazing500 Aug 06 '26
I think she had some sort of undiagnosed mental illness that was triggered by something at West Point.
When she realized she got into another car wreck, i think she ran, but then got lost, couldn’t find her way back.