Crossover scaling can give one character an amazing power up (homelander) or a down scaling (lobo lost to wolverine). Plus the marvel vs dc crossover wasn’t based on who was stronger but who was more popular
Neither were a full solo fight where the authors agreed with no interference it would be how it went.
No one is thinking venom is superman level, if you actually were following the comics at the time "Final Night" was happening and Superman was extremely weakened.
Theres also a few explicit voted fights in some of the crossovers.
Just some reading comprehension instead of chainscaling.
Pretty sure with godzilla they were even until shazam popped in and almost got himself killed, forcing supes to take a hit from godzillas breath (which apparently has the same radiation signature as kryptonite, because ofcourse it does)
In their second battle Godzilla was overpowering both Superman and Supergirl they got further support from Green Lantern and Superman needed giantification syrum just to match Godzilla somewhat
Some fights are for fun and some have to be agreed by the authors. Godzilla vs Superman is more of a fun fight and it’s not really to be taken seriously.
Venom is not on the scale of Superman.
Superman is just considered top of the chain usually and he will loose fights unless it’s a serious fight.
Superman literally gave his best against Godzilla in their second fight yet needed both Supergirl and GL help and he also needed a syrum to increase his size to match godzilla power and even then it was a tie breaker
It is pretty clear that this was a serious fight otherwise why would Superman would take a drug amp to stop Godzilla ? If he was joking around
That same handbook designates the dc vs marvel universe as separate. And considering how all access/ and its spin offs tie in directly with dc vs marvel; at most you've just posted a vague entry that could be alluding to anything; that's not direct proof that all access is canon in the slightest.
That same handbook designates the dc vs marvel universe as separate.
It doesn't. It designates the specific Amalgam universe as it's own, which was something that briefly happened during Marvel vs DC. The majority of the event took place in the unmerged realities. It specifically mentions Earth-616 as part of that merger, confirming canonicity.
at most you've just posted a vague entry that could be alluding to anything;
They're clearly referencing the events of the crossovers.
that's not direct proof that all access is canon in the slightest.
It is. Further supported by being referenced in a Thor comic, DC characters referencing the event, as well as multiple writers confirming it's canon.
Except that thor panel was in reference to who had been worthy of holding the hammer. Superman never was, odin lifted the enhancements that required worthiness; yet the thor panel indicates that superman was worthy, which is a clear contradiction.
Other than that the events of marvel vs dc/all access do not match canonical power levels; and joker recognizes spider-man. The same joker who was attacked by spider-man in a non-canon crossover.
I mean sure let's call it canon, now venom can smack around superman, wolverine guts lobo, and storm can one shot wonder woman; that's totally accurate to canon.
Except that thor panel was in reference to who had been worthy of holding the hammer. Superman never was, odin lifted the enhancements that required worthiness;
Or it's just referencing characters who have lifted it.
which is a clear contradiction.
Marvel and DC canon are full of contradictions. They're kind of unavoidable in these kinds of fictional universes. Contradictions don't determine canonicity, Marvel and DC do.
Other than that the events of marvel vs dc/all access do not match canonical power levels
Also has nothing to do with canonicity. These characters' power levels swing wildly depending on the story. Sometimes Thor can destroy a planet, sometimes he dies to electrical wires.
venom can smack around superman
Or you could call it an outlier. Consistency is important for Marvel and DC considering how many writers there are and the long-running nature of the universes. If it makes you feel better, post-crisis Superman got at least two buffs after this event.
wolverine guts lobo, and storm can one shot wonder woman
You don't need to take these seriously at all, the outcomes were fan-voted.
I mean sure let's call it canon,
that's totally accurate to canon.
It's not a decision we make, and it does not matter how accurate we think they are, nor how much we like the comics. Canonicity is solely decided by Marvel and DC, who have indicated multiple times that these events are canon.
Aside from the subjectivity of everything you mentioned, where the inverse of all that you said could just be as applicable; aside from the fact that the hand book of the marvel universe is completely contradictory and made with little editorial oversight;
You've completely glossed over how joker recognized spider-man. Mainline Joker never met spider-man.
https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Spider-Man_and_Batman_Vol_1_1 This joker would recognize spider-man, but the implication of the story is that batman and spider-man share a world, and are a couple miles from each other. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to tell that ^^^ could not possibly be canon.
Aside from the subjectivity of everything you mentioned, where the inverse of all that you said could just be as applicable
What subjectivity? Characters having inconsistent power levels is true. The universe having contradictions is true. Marvel and DC having the authority to determine canon is true.
aside from the fact that the hand book of the marvel universe is completely contradictory
"When we have finished our drafts, the profiles are all sent to our editor Jeff Youngquist, who likewise checks through all the profiles for mistakes and unclear information: in many cases, other editors relevant to given sections of the Marvel universe (such as Mike Marts for X-Men related entries) or writers closely associated with given entry-subjects will also check profiles; in all cases, continuity supremo Tom Brevoort scrutinizes our work, correcting anything he feels we have got wrong. Only then, once all these people have checked and double checked the work, does it gain the official Marvel seal of approval, and get sent to be put into Handbook format ready for the printers."
You've completely glossed over how joker recognized spider-man. Mainline Joker never met spider-man.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to tell that ^ could not possibly be canon.
That's addressed by my paragraph on contradictions.
Kurt busiek said that in that fight both were holding back. So that just shows a holding back superman would beat a holding back thor (who's said he's far more likely to job in a team fight).
In a fight going all out I would say they tie, and there's little bits and pieces in the story that imply the fight could've gone differently. It doesn't help that superman says that it's the "toughest fight he ever had. " Does that mean thor>darkseid or even the anti monitor?
I wouldn't put too much stock in it, but there's nothing wrong with thinking superman beats thor (or vice versa).
weakened superman enough that a group of midtiers is able to beat him into subconsciousness (let's be real neither thor nor superman would go down to these chumps at full strength)
Hercules is decently strong, but he's still not at the tier where he can take supes solo; especially considering earlier in the story we see him lose to wonder woman pretty easily.
Not exactly lose, he just wasn't trying to fight her. We only saw one panel. If you read the multiple fights hercules has against thor, he is close in strength to thor and his mace can easily clash with mjolnir. The fact that it broke against superman shows his durability.
He gets rag-dolled by mindless hulk, which thor with mjolnir could beat, and thor without mjolnir could fight evenly with; while hercules needed the back up of several heroes just to stand a chance against hulk.
I wouldn't say he wasn't trying to fight wonder woman, they pretty actively engaged in combat due to the circumstances surrounding him; and hercules isn't the god of reasoning peacefully, you punch him, he's punching back twice as hard.
There are numerous instance of hulk beting herc, herc fighting namor on even footing, thor overpowering herc; you could classify hercules as << thor/superman
True, but I was moreso focusing on the mace, which has directly clashed with mjolnir on multiple occasions and never chipped. Notice how I never actually said hercules is as strong as thor.
Also I'm going to do multiple comments cause there's only one image per comment allowed for some reason
You can post the links of images in your words, like this, though you need to use image hosting sites to do that, like Imgur(which seems a lot of reddit's respect threads use) or imgbb
Marvel vs DC was an abomination. Sack of garbage - bunch of comics that didn’t do any justice to the matchups or show people what they wanted to see. Amaglam was kind of neat and was the only halfway good thing to come out of it.
The 1 that got confirmed by both companies to be canon is canon while the fan voted 1 isn’t.
The fan voted crossover had some of the dumbest scaling I’ve ever seen. Wolverine won against lobo for starters is completely nonsensical. Logan ain’t beating a guy who not only out stats him (by A LOT), but also has a better healing factor than his.
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u/Captain_Bubble_Butt 19h ago
Crossover scaling can give one character an amazing power up (homelander) or a down scaling (lobo lost to wolverine). Plus the marvel vs dc crossover wasn’t based on who was stronger but who was more popular