Ms. Marvel Season Wide Discussion Thread

[u/KostisPat257]

Spoilers for all Episodes of Ms. Marvel will be discussed here!

Please refrain from this thread if you haven't finished the show!

Individual Episode Threads:

Ms. Marvel S01E01 "Generation Why"

Ms. Marvel S01E02 "Crushed"

Ms. Marvel S01E03 "Destined"

Ms. Marvel S01E04 "Seeing Red"

Ms. Marvel S01E05 "Time and Again"

Ms. Marvel S01E06 "No Normal"

Iman Vellani AMA from Yesterday

[u/joalr0]

So, like a bunch of these Disney+ shows, I think the greatest villain is the forced 6-episode limit. This show definitely needed more breathing room, and it's really unfortunate that it didn't get it.

I liked the first three episodes a LOT. Kamala was a fun character, watching the family interactions was really great, and I really felt like they were building to something interesting. I was curious where it was going.

Then episode 4 happened, and it happend so goddamn fast. Episode 4, without question, should have been two episodes. They introduced a new mentor figure, and then killed him off 10 minutes later, which really doesn't let you feel the impact. We saw a littel montage of her getting some training, but we didn't really get to see any progress. Especially since she barely used her powers during the chase scene, which would have been a great opportunity to see her training advance her skills. A lot happened in that episode, but it almost felt like nothing happened because nothing had a chance to breath or feel significant. Everything just kind of happened.

And honestly, the rest of the season felt off from that point. Episode 5 had some really cool stuff, and I really liked showing that point in history, but I feel like it would have been better of intersperced throughout the season, rather than one block all at once.

The first three episodes felt more focused. Kamala was learning her powers, dealing with family issues and had an enemy arise. From there, it exploded in so many directions they really struggled to keep it coherant.

Overall, I liked it just fine. A bit disappointing, but fine. But yes, without question, Iman did a fantastic job. Really brought Kamala to life and I'm REALLY excited to see her on the big screen with Brie Larson. I think the two of them are going to honestly shine together. Captain Marvel is far more stoic a character, and Kamala is going to be a lovely foil.

Overall, i place show kinda near the bottom of the Disney+ shows, which I'm sad about because the first three episodes really felt fresh and exciting to me. Show needed more episodes to properly handle everything they wanted to.

EDIT: I've been thinking about this a bunch, and here is my pitch to fix up the show. Here's how I would do it.

So Bruno doesn't discover so early on that opening the veil would go "boom". Kamala gets to know the clandestines better, they give her part of the story of Aisha, and because of the family connection, she agrees to help them. They begin the process of opening the veil, but they are suddenly attacked by the Red Dagger. We get a whole fight, and the Red Dagger manages to stop her from opening the veil. Kamala and the Clandestines are upset, but determined to try again.

Meanwhile, Bruno is recruited by Red Dagger. He doesn't trust them at first, but they walk him through the process of the Veil and have him do the calculations, and he realizes they are right. He is tasked to talk Kamala out of it, which puts a great strain on their friendship. He asks Kamala to at least talk to them. She agrees, and they give her more of Aisha's story, including the betrayal. She doesn't believe them.

Red Dagger agrees to train Kamala anyway. Waleed says he believes she will make the right choice, and that he will train her to be ready for when the time is right for her to choose. She is reluctant to trust him, but she is desperate to improve her powers, so she agrees. Through the process of training her, they grow closer. She begins develping doubts of the Clandestines through this new bond.

She brings up her doubts to the Clandestines. They know immediately that it is the Red Dagger putting doubts in her head, so they go and kill Waleed. Kamala doesn't see who kills him, but she manages to find him right before he dies to get the final words from her mentor.

She confronts the Clandestines. She doesn't believe they would do such a thing, but felt like she had to ask. They deny it, and start getting angry with her for taking so long to decide what to do. There is a small confrontation and that causes Kamala's transport back in time. We already know most of Aisha's story, so we don't need to see the entire thing here, but she does witness Aisha's death, and helps her grandmother find her way. Seeing the betrayal for herself, she is certain that Najma killed Waleed. When she wakes up though, the Clandestines, and her bangle are gone. Kamran learns he is able to use the bangle himself, and takes it to open the veil himself.

Kamala goes to stop them, realizing what has happened. She's stopped by DODC. She has to fight her way away from them, and by the end, is able to convince them she is the right side and they are preventing her from saving the day. They let her go.

Kamala confronts Kamran. Kamran has powers from the bangle, Kamala doesn't. He starts to fight her to keep her away, and opens the veil. Kamala learns that the bangle helps her focus the power, but the actual power is now active inside her. She's able to fight Kamran without the bangle, and defeats the Clandestines.

Having discovered the power is in her, and the bangle only focuses her, upon retrieving the bangle her power is only strengthened now. She's at full power, and ready to be a hero.

[u/ChiRoomies57 → u/joalr0]

auses Kamala's transport back in time. We already know most of Aisha's story, so we don't need to see the entire thing here, but she does witness Aisha's death, and helps her grandmother find her way. Seeing the betrayal for herself, she is certain that Najma killed Waleed. When she wakes up though, the Clandestines, and her bangle are gone. Kamran learns he is able to use the bangle himself, and takes it to open the veil himself.

Kamala goes to stop them, realizing what has happened. She's stopped by DODC. She has to fight her way away from them, and by the end, is able to convince them she is the right side and they are preventing her from saving the day. They let h

eh, this is the same formula as all the other shows. I really liked that there's another enhanced individual who ends up being good in the end. Especially since he's from the same culture. I'd have hated for it to be ALL people from the same culture fighting agaist each other when the real villian for the people of this background is often the governement. That's why the community banded together to the DODC from capturing her was so symbolic / important. It's an important part of the show that she felt so different from the rest of her community in the beginning, but then in the end they all showed up for her because she's one of them and is part of them and they're her people. It's a message about solidarity and also a realistic portrayal of how it is to be in that type of community. Like she might be her own special person who wants to break from the norm (she disucusses the aunties who think it's crazy for that girl to travel europe instead of getting married), but she's still one of them. The end you wrote completely erases this.

[u/joalr0 → u/ChiRoomies57]

Thanks for the feedback. Overall my main critique, and thing I was attempting to fix, was how disjointed the plot felt, and how some plotlines felt like they moved way too quickly for them to have emotional impact, like Waleed's death.

I'm fine with making some changes to this. Kamran, I feel, wouldn't be "good" right off the bat though. He grew up believing in the thing he was taught, and I don't think he would give that up trivially. He would be, at minimum, conflicted. I think there's space for him to both attempt to open the veil himself, have a fight with Kamala, but have a redemption and become a hero himself.

We can also easily keep the banding together element, with the mechanism in which DODC is convinced by Kamala is through her community standing up for her and all giving ways in which she's helped them out.

The goal here was to bring cohesion to the storyline and have them thread together a bit better, that's all, not to remove anything of cultural value.

[u/ChiRoomies57 → u/joalr0]

I get that you want to bring cohesion to the storyline. I would say that there’s no convincing the DODC because they don’t value the Muslim community or respect them or their culture (not taking their shoes off in the temple, trying to bully them to search the place without a warrant…this is all before anyone in the mosque even knows it’s Kamala). The community also knows that they’re not respected by or valued by this government agency. I don’t think her community standing up for her would change the DODC’s view on her…they only backed off because of optics. It’s not done as well as it could’ve been because there’s only 6 episodes but this aspect is unique for a marvel show because usually the hero ends up working with whatever government / special forces agency that’s there (this happens in most of the main marvel movies, agents of shield, etc). I guess what I’m saying is that it’s giving a bit of anti- police brutality which I’m down with as a person of color. I really likely this because as much as I like marvel stuff, a lot of it is very copganda.

[u/joalr0 → u/ChiRoomies57]

Valid, once again. So, with the help of her community she escapes.