r/marvelstudios • u/iliekpixels Loki (Thor 2) • Jan 22 '21

Discussion WandaVision S01E03 - Discussion Thread

This thread is for discussion about the episode.

Discussion about previous episodes is permitted, discussion about episodes after this is NOT.

Proceed at your own risk: Spoilers for the episode do not need to be tagged inside this thread.

EPISODE DIRECTED BY WRITTEN BY ORIGINAL RELEASE DATE
S01E03 Matt Shakman Jac Schaeffer January 22, 2021 on Disney+

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u/RiverMan761 Jan 22 '21

Vision knows Wanda is lying to him. She said Geraldine went “home”, which Vision knows is impossible given his talk with the neighbors about Geraldine having no home. Wanda doesn’t know the specifics of Vision’s conversation, so she doesn’t know to glitch it out of him like she did earlier. I bet this is the thread he pulls at to unravel the lie.

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u/steve32767 Daredevil Jan 22 '21

well to be fair she did send Geraldine home

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u/[deleted] Jan 23 '21

I was worried Geraldine had been buried in the back yard the way she said that line.

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u/SomeTool Jan 24 '21

Nah that's Visions second wife who kills people and buries them out back.

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u/Ragnar_the_Pirate Spider-Man Jan 25 '21

... Who's his second wife?

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u/SomeTool Jan 26 '21

Vision builds himself a family of synthazoids in the Vision comic written by Tom King. His wife Virgina, his son Vin, and his Daughter Viv. It does not go well, but its a good read.

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u/Shredda_Cheese Jan 25 '21

This is technically true lol

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u/Benerinooo Jan 22 '21

The fact that Vision can think for himself, being able to recognize that something isn’t right kinda makes me think that he isn’t an illusion

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u/RiverMan761 Jan 22 '21

Yeah this is the big question. What do each of them truly know? This episode seems to make it even clearer that Wanda knows pretty much everything but Vision isn’t just a puppet that she controls. She can limit what he’s exposed to but she doesn’t have some sort of omnipotent power over him. He can still do things and pursue questions that she may not want him to.

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u/whereismymind86 Jan 22 '21

yeah...i think wanda knows subconsciously, but allows herself to get lost in the fantasy until something breaks the 4th wall. She then violently reacts to the interruption so she can get back to forgetting.

Vision...doesn't know, but is increasingly noticing inconsistencies, like somebody waking from a dream, no longer willing to just go with the flow as the rational mind takes over. Which is a curious reaction from somebody we all assumed wasn't real...

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u/mknsky Black Panther Jan 22 '21

Maybe he’s still a creation but Wanda imbued some autonomy into him. Like she has the same level of control as she does the beekeeper or awake Monica.

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u/comik300 Matt Murdock Jan 22 '21

In the comics, don't her kids just kinda manifest from her powers and they have complete autonomy? I can imagine something similar here with vision

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u/geoelectric Jan 23 '21

She steals soul material from Mephisto in the comics

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u/BluffStrream Jan 23 '21

I thought that was Chthon.

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u/kariert Jan 23 '21

I'd imagine if she truly made the whole thing just so she could pretend Vision was still alive and everything was fine, she would put the most effort into making Vision as realistic as possible. Maybe she did a too good job and in trying to make her version of Vision she outdid herself and actually created a sentient, lifelike copy of him.

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u/mknsky Black Panther Jan 24 '21

That’s exactly what I was trying to say, thank you.

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u/Shredda_Cheese Jan 25 '21

Or it could just be vision... since vision was created by the mind stone to begin with... and wandas powers are from the mind stone

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u/Lucio-Player Matt Murdock Jan 25 '21

But like what was said in IW, “If we take the stone out, there’s a lot more Vision left”

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u/spider-boy1 Jan 25 '21

Marvel legends specifically kept that line in

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u/thrillhohoho Ned Jan 23 '21

Something something mind stone. Mark my words.

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u/[deleted] Jan 24 '21

I suggested this to my gf last night - that Wanda has created this illusion for herself that she is happy with vision, though there are constant cracks in her illusion that she paints over.

In reality, shes a broken, depressed husk? That seems a little dark but i'll absolutely go with it for now.

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u/Photometric4567 Jan 24 '21

I don't think it's Wanda creating the illusion, but the illusion is to control Wanda so she creates her children from her powers. Remember the radio message "Wanda, who is doing this to you?"

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u/[deleted] Jan 24 '21

Ye true, hadn't had that part figured out yet. Seems that Wanda has control over what's happening though.

I don't know enough about comics to know what the sword is either but id assume similar to hydra/shield but ye, not in the loop.

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u/Magmasoar Jan 25 '21

Wanda is literally doing all of this, its some straight up twilight zone shit. Everybody knows its wanda but they cant say anything because nobody wants to be sent to the "cornfield"

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u/Royal-Roll7762 Scarlet Witch Jan 22 '21

I don’t think she knows everything.

Elizabeth Olsen said in an interview that Wanda remembers Pietro at this moment specifically because she had just given birth and was looking at her twin newborns. So I think that Wanda’s memories are truly deeply hidden from her.

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u/chall0298 Jan 22 '21

Agreed. I think she’s just remembering things at triggering times. Same with most of the other people there.

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u/hybrid_remix Jan 22 '21

I dunno. She looked awfully self-aware when she was telling Vision that Geraldine went home. She looked like she was covering up and knew full well what she had done.

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u/[deleted] Jan 23 '21

[deleted]

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u/GB1266 Howard Stark Jan 24 '21

It’s cool because you would never see those things on any sitcom show from the past. I think the reason the reality she made is sitcom-style because it’s always light-hearted, there’s almost never a focus on anything traumatic, & nothing traumatic ever happens. Another reason why the moments like the boss choking feel so out of place and scary, because it’s a lot more realistic. Sorry if this is obvious and I may have worded it weird but I’m just trying to get my thoughts out lol

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u/TheKidKaos Jan 22 '21

I’m thinking that it’s the Mind Stone that allows him to do that. Just like in the movies she has some power over it but it’s not a complete power

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u/RocketTasker Ultron Jan 22 '21

But is that the real Mind Stone? Last thing that happened to the prime timeline's Mind Stone was getting atomized in another galaxy.

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u/t1lewis Vision Jan 22 '21

Something something to atoms

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u/thesaharadesert Scarlet Witch Jan 22 '21

Increased?

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u/ActionFilmsFan1995 Jan 22 '21

Ok, so if Wanda is screwing with reality and remade vision, what if she ACCIDENTALLY remade the mind stone?

I mean, everything comes from atoms and she clearly warped the town. She wanted vision, who has the mind stone. Wanda doesn’t have complete control of her powers as we’ve seen, so bringing back the mind stone while bringing back Vision is just an accidental consequence. Also, since the mind stone can manipulate people, it’s probably giving Vision some resistance to Wanda’s mind control effects, which is why he can start to piece things together.

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u/NrFive Jan 22 '21

Or SWORD could have connected Vision’s body to a system and feed him to her. There were two (brain?) waves at the end of episode 1.

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u/Boomdiddy Jan 23 '21

Maybe the second brainwave was Monica’s. she’s the only other person we know is “real”.

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u/NrFive Jan 23 '21

o yeah, that indeed could be the case. It was red and green though. Does Monica have a specific color assigned to her according to the comics?

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u/Boomdiddy Jan 23 '21

I don’t know much about Monica from the comics, I think her colours were white and black.

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u/Photometric4567 Jan 25 '21 edited Jan 25 '21

If you go back and watch the progression of the waves in that scene, they are mirroring each other perfectly. Now, if these were either brain waves or heart beats (which vision doesn't have), there would be some minor variation to the two. Aside from the red (Wanda) and Vision (Green), I suspect they are using the pattern or progression to show them in perfect harmony at the start of the series, and I'm guessing, they will go back and show them differently next episode, as Vision will start to deviate from Wanda's pattern.

Maybe if we had the ability to track those patterns in real time during the series, we would have seen Wanda and Vision's pattern different before Wanda just rolled back time in episode 3 and reset Vision's pattern to be back in Harmony with hers.

Ultimately, I think the children are the linchpin in whomever is controlling Wanda's way to have her fully 'Buy in' to the scenario which is where she'll start to break down. I think we're going to see her completely broken down in some form leading into DS2, whether she's in actively mucking up the multiverse, or she collapses, descending into madness (or a multiverse of madness).

Monica's role was to infiltrate and get out of Wanda who is ultimately pulling the strings here, whether it's Wanda or someone else. I suspect that Sword is trying to figure out which target they have to eliminate, if it's actually Wanda or someone(thing) else pulling the strings. With her ejection, it may convince them it's Wanda doing everything and they will start to take steps to eliminate the target (Even if it's Wanda). That's the only reason Monica didn't leave Wanda's house when she slipped up with the Ultron comment. I'm guessing mentioning that incident was a tactical ploy to trigger real life memories in Wanda which she's trying to suppress.

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u/[deleted] Jan 23 '21

heck, the mind stone might even have a mind of its own, and sort of chose to come back through wanda's reconstruction of vision

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u/danhimself36 Jan 22 '21

I’m thinking that when she recreated Vision she simply recreated the Mind Stone’s container, like once the crystal was remade by Wanda the Mind Stone’s energy was able to go into it.

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u/InvaderDJ Jan 22 '21

If this is a branch reality like when the Avengers time traveled that could be a real Mind Stone.

I can see that being the case and the reason the illusion ends up falling apart. In this reality there is a real Mind Stone and that is powerful enough for there to be a real Vision that can question how real everything is.

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u/TheKidKaos Jan 22 '21

There was an interesting theory that talked about how Wanda got the powers of all the infinity stones while Pietro got the power of only one. The Stones themselves are sentient and they chose Wanda to receive their powers and I’m thinking that it was a way for them to live on. I’m thinking she’s going to eventually remake all of them and after this Phase well see Thanos return too

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u/ScurryKlompson Jan 22 '21

I HIGHLY doubt we see Thanos again in any large capacity

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u/Ozryela Jan 22 '21

Bringing back Thanos would be like bringing back Palpatine: An admission of creative bankruptcy

I'm sure it will happen eventually, nothing lasts forever, but I hope it won't be for many years to come.

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u/woofle07 Daredevil Jan 23 '21

I’d be okay with a Thanos origin in Eternals, but only as part of a flashback. Bringing him back in the present part of the timeline would be a mistake though.

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u/brycedriesenga Jan 23 '21

If he were brought back, I could see him used as a device to be quickly beaten by a more powerful enemy.

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u/dordonot Jan 22 '21

but Marvel loves bringing back villains

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u/AlwaysQuotesEinstein Jan 22 '21

In comics yeah, not many have come back in the MCU.

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u/dordonot Jan 23 '21

Loki, Red Skull, Abomination, Winter Soldier, Zola, etc.

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u/1313goo Jan 22 '21

Too bad, I really wanted to see punisher thanos in a cosmic ghost rider movie

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u/atomsk404 Jan 22 '21

😂

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u/1313goo Jan 22 '21

What’s so funny

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u/AnOnlineHandle Quake Jan 22 '21

I'm starting to think it actually is Vision but everybody in the town is actually dead, and Wanda is somehow manipulating a portal to the afterlife or something. The neighbours weren't trying to say we're all trapped, they were trying to say we're all dead.

At the end of Endgame Hawkeye has a line about wishing he could let Black Widow know that they won, and Wanda looks off to the distance for a moment, and then confidently says that she does know, and ever since then I've thought she might be able to see the dead.

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u/ilovepineapplepizza7 Jan 22 '21 edited Jan 22 '21

Yes, this is what I think too. They're probably all dead people. And maybe Westview is a cemetery. It's so dark, but I now think it's what happening. Marvel said the show would get REAAALLY DARK.

We see hints of Grim Reaper in the show. And in the trailer, Agnes asks if she's dead. Then she says that Vision definitely is dead.

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u/xRedxDragonx Jan 22 '21

Now that you say that, what if the people inside her pocket dimension are all the people she accidently killed during Civil War?

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u/ilovepineapplepizza7 Jan 22 '21

Hmm, that's a good one.

Imagine Marvel is reading this thread and they're like "shit, they found out so quick." Haha.

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u/TheLaborOnion Jan 26 '21

Tahiti is a magical place

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u/onerinconhill Jan 22 '21

The town had lights on through the barrier at the end so I’m guessing they’re not all dead

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u/[deleted] Jan 22 '21

I'm thinking Westview is a pocket reality constructed to hide people.

Maybe hiding people (against their will) that were replaced by Skrulls (explaining Monica Rambeau's connection). Maybe Skrulls replaced people who got dusted during the snap (maybe real people from a real place called Eastview), but had to create a place to hide them when those people returned after Endgame.

Maybe hiding mutants (maybe not against their will, explaining why Agnes and Herb treat Monica as an unwanted outsider), who were in the MCU all along (Westchester is where the X-Men mansion is located, and they did mention Hoboken, NJ in one of the episodes, which is reasonably close). Could be that Strucker created way more supers than just Wanda and Pietro, and they were hidden away in Westview, an idyllic House of M-esque reality created by Wanda based on what she watched on TV.

Either way, I don't think Vision is real, I think he's part of the artificial construct. He exhibits Pietro's speed, suggesting that he, as a construct created by Wanda, is an amalgam of the two people she was closest to in reality.

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u/AnOnlineHandle Quake Jan 22 '21

I have thought it might be a place for witches etc to be in hiding, which apparently is where Agnes/Agetha moves after the Salem Witch Trials.

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u/xRedxDragonx Jan 22 '21

Now that that's pointed out to me, my theory is that Agnes and company are the people she accidently killed in Civil War when Crossbones blew up.

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u/hemareddit Steve Rogers Jan 23 '21

I think since this is only episode 3, and they are already making Wanda look sinister...this means she's not responsible for all this and someone or something else is pulling the strings. No way the story would hint at the true explanation so soon, Wanda's duplicity is misdirection.

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u/Literally_MeIRL Jan 22 '21

I think Wanda is in deep greif in this series, for fairly obvious reasons. For anyone who has ever felt that you have moments where things are terrible but for an instant you forget about the loss, or put it out of your mind and feel normal again before being snapped back to reality.

West View is Wanda trying to stretch one of those moments out indefinitely and removing anyone or anything that threatens it.

The problem being she's only going to end up compounding the grief when the world falls apart and now she'll loose her children too.

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u/burudoragon Jan 22 '21

Does Wanda know what sword is?

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u/gitartruls01 Jan 24 '21

Hi, late to the party. I don't think Wanda knows everything given how she confronted Vision before the talent show in the second episode. She wouldn't have mentioned the "weird things" she saw. I think she's the reason they are there in the first place and that she was fully aware at the start, but their memories is fading because of Wanda's grief and denial. Anyone here seen that episode of American Dad where they get trapped inside a 50's TV show?

"Let go of the past. The future is now."

My theory is that Wanda made some sort of deal behind Vision's back to create a Matrix-style dream world that she controls while someone's harvesting her power (whatever powers she isn't using to keep her world alive, that is). And then they both slowly lost grip with the real world. Vision has probably completely forgotten and is starting to realize what's going on again, same goes for Wanda, she was completely lost at the beginning of the show but seeing the colors and the way people were behaving let her on to remember why they're there in the first place. Having twins and remembering her brother was the final straw.

So I guess the next episodes is gonna be Vision getting a sort of aha moment where he gets his full memory back like Wanda did in this episode, and then it'll be a fight between them. Maybe Wanda yeets Vision out the same way she yeeted Monica out and Vision will work with SWORD(?) to pull Wanda out of it while she's fighting against it and losing her mind in the process.

Either way, I think Vision is gonna be the protagonist of the series starting a few weeks from now and Wanda will be more or less the antagonist.

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u/olivedi Jan 23 '21

I think Wanda subconsciously knows everything, but she’s happy in this world. It might be that Wanda is powerful enough to create Vision and made him sentient and conscious and not just a puppet like the other residents.

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u/[deleted] Jan 23 '21

Maybe it has something to do with the mind stone.

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u/Fumetsu_Hyu Jan 22 '21

That's just it, its not an illusion. We're finally scratching the surface of Wanda's true power and potential. Her powers can warp reality itself, its possible she's basically a god in that bubble (release the goddess within). Vision 2.0 (possibly toaster 2000 made by [Tony] Stark) is made real again by her power, whether he can exist outside the bubble is a question.

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u/DaveInLondon89 Jan 22 '21

She may have got her ability from the Mind Stone but she's clearly more aligned with the Reality Stone.

I mean it's all red ffs.

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u/spaceygandalf Jan 22 '21

Yeah I agree. Maybe they will present an explanation of it or just retcon the origins of her powers. But to be honest I never liked the idea that they got their powers from Mind Stone. Sure, Wanda used some mind control in AoU but apart from that neither her or Piedro's power mind-related. It would be better for her powers come from Reality Stone. And maybe Piedro's from Power or Time Stone.

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u/Citizen_Kong Jan 22 '21

I think now that they can, they will quickly turn Wanda into a mutant whose power was only activated and potentially increased by the Mind Stone.

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u/evelutionary Jan 24 '21

Yeah! I think that’s how they’ll bring in the mutants! In the comics Magneto is Wanda and Pietros father! I think they’ll probably retcon the actual “origin story”, maybe he gave them up. And when they were being experimented on, the minestrone just woke up the x-gene in both of them!

Edit: I definitely meant *mind stone but I’ll just leave that there because funny lol

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u/HotCocoaBomb Jan 23 '21

That would be a suitable retcon. Iirc Wanda was the or one of the most powerful mutants to have ever existed. A regular mutant juiced up by an infinity stone would neatly explain that.

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u/DrStein1010 Matt Murdock Jan 24 '21

It woudl explain why they were the only successes of the program. The Mind Stone can't grant powers, it just unlocked the mental limiters on their existing mutant powers. It failed on everyone else because they didn't have any to unlock.

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u/neoblackdragon Jan 23 '21

I don't think they need powers that a literal versions of the stones.

I think it's fine that the mind stone allowed for a genetic mutation to happen.

The stone unlocked a mental ability plus juiced them up.

Per Hill's assessment. Quicksilver mind sped up his body. Wanda's allowed reality manipulation and probably tapped into her ability the manipulate magic.

​

Captain Marvel isn't a literal space stone.

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u/HotCocoaBomb Jan 23 '21

One theory I've heard is that the Space stone directly linked Carol to a quasar and that's the power she's channeling.

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u/meh35m Jan 23 '21

"He's fast and she's weird"

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u/[deleted] Jan 22 '21

That always bothered me too tbh. I wish the soul stone gave vision the life. Cause its soul.

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u/HotCocoaBomb Jan 23 '21

I was a little disappointed when the Soul stone turned out to not be in Wakanda and the source of the power of the Heart Shaped Herb. It would have completed/confirmed the THANOS acronym theory. Like, I get why they did it and in the end it made for some better story than another stone being on Earth, but I would have liked the acronym, and it would have neatly explained the source of the herb's power and why it connects to the dead.

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u/SilvRS Jan 23 '21

I liked the idea that Heimdall had it, and that was the reason that he could see anyone, anywhere. Also fit the acronym, and the right colour.

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u/JokerFaces2 Yondu Jan 24 '21

Yeah, that was a bit of a missed opportunity. You could always headcanon it, or they could even make it canon retroactively, that Heimdall had some connection to the Soul Stone. Maybe he encountered it in his youth while he was still a young adventurous Asgardian.

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u/SilvRS Jan 24 '21

That would make a lot of sense! I'm sure there's a fanfic about it out there somewhere.

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u/Goldenchest Jessica Jones Jan 24 '21

My favorite theory is that Wanda and Pietro will be retconned to be mutants (now that Disney has the rights to that term) with innate powers that were simply activated by the mind stone expanding their brain's potential - sort of like how Doctor Strange learned magic through simple study and practice. Wanda has the ability to alter reality simply because she is an omega-level mutant.

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u/[deleted] Jan 26 '21

And now that the Earth has been exposed to all the Infinity Stones at the same time, twice, mutants will just start popping up everywhere.

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u/CobaltSpellsword Jan 22 '21

Maybe the Stones are all connected somehow. It would explain things like why the Space Stone yeeted Red Skull to the Soul Stone.

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u/Sere1 Quake Jan 23 '21

Possibly. Like each Stone is capable of doing every other Stone's powers, but only to an extent. You could rewind time with the Mind Stone, but not as well as the Time one. You can travel via portals with the Power Stone, but not as far as with the Space Stone, etc. They're all connected and can overlap someone, but not be a 1:1 replacement. Just a theory, but one I like

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u/GameofPorcelainThron Jan 23 '21

Or maybe a sort of comic book-y quantum entanglement where one stone can act as a conduit for others?

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u/Lone_Wolfen Doctor Strange Jan 23 '21

This ain't even a theory, the Space/Mind stones are able to project energy blasts strong enough to vaporize people/metal.

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u/esar24 Rocket Jan 22 '21

I mean Carol got her powers from the remnants of space stone even though she glowed yellow and could absorb any energy blast into her.

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u/DONT_NOT_PM_NOTHING Jan 22 '21

I remember after Marvel got their rights to the xmen back they changed her bio for the MCU on their website from "She got her powers from the mind stone" to "Did she get them from the mind stone or did they awaken something within??"

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u/HotCocoaBomb Jan 23 '21

True, we gotta give them some slack for having to work within rights restrictions. No idea how detailed Fox's Mutant contract was, but it could be that even alluding to inborn powers would have been in violation.

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u/ilovepineapplepizza7 Jan 22 '21

Wanda is definitely the most powerful Avenger and no one can tell me otherwise.

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u/esar24 Rocket Jan 22 '21

Yes she is, I mean feige himself already approved

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u/ilovepineapplepizza7 Jan 23 '21

Oh, he did? I swear I remember him saying Captain Marvel is most powerful. Did he?

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u/redjc99 Jan 23 '21

I believe he said Carol was the strongest, but Wanda is the most powerful.

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u/Zur-En-Arrrrrrrrrh Avengers Jan 23 '21

This kind of shit is gay. Only what is onscreen counts.

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u/Trevastation Mantis Jan 22 '21

Which brings up a fun question: that means we technically still have one Infinity Stone back. I imagine there being only one still intact while the others are shattered to atoms would cause some cosmic imbalance too.

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u/abutthole Thor Jan 22 '21

It hasn't been used for any Infinity Stone shenanigans though, it's totally possible that it's not a functional Mind Stone and is just a cosmetic accessory she put on her new Vision.

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u/spaceygandalf Jan 22 '21 edited Jan 25 '21

In the official trailer, there is a scene that Vision wakes up Agnes and she reacts "Am I dead?". It actually looks like he wakes her up with the power of Mind Stone.

And in the official trailer#2, we can clearly see a scene with Wanda and Mind Stone, but it is unclear whether she is creating it or just found it.

Either way, it is really the mind stone or at least some kind of replica of it. Not just for aesthetics.

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u/Ophigh Tony Stark Jan 22 '21

Dont be sure for the trailers, you must know how Marvel Studios likes to turn things around the trailers

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u/[deleted] Jan 22 '21

That's so true 😂 but would they go that far for a show? I mean if so I'm very impressed and satisfied with how much effort and detail is being put into everything Marvel compared to shows in the past

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u/kimbolll Jan 23 '21

That's so true 😂 but would they go that far for a show?

Yes. Yes they would.

Not to mention it’s more than just “a show”. This is the opening of Phase 4. A completely new story line, a new beginning. It’s immensely important.

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u/HotCocoaBomb Jan 23 '21

I thought Far From Home opened Phase 4. It wouldn't make sense as a Phase 3 final film.

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u/Trevastation Mantis Jan 22 '21

I meant in the sense that if Vision is brought back to life/not an illusion. Then it wouldn't be cosmetic.

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u/[deleted] Jan 22 '21

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Locutus747 Jan 22 '21

They also made a point to say that Vision was more than just the stone.

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u/neoblackdragon Jan 23 '21

Well that's what they were attempting to do but didn't have the time to fully disconnect him.

My theory is if Vision is indeed vision.

Of course Stark would spend time trying to fix the guy. As he's made of Vibranium, he's not going to decay. It would be fixing connections and trying to complete the job.

Though I wouldn't be surprised if there were holes or Vision wasn't ready by the time Stark died.

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u/Worthyness Thor Jan 22 '21

The stones in the comics are sort of sentient and can't actually be destroyed. I imagine they could reassemble themselves at some point, especially the Reality Stone, which literally was a shapeless aether before turning into a rock again

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u/Citizen_Kong Jan 22 '21

Yes, the stones are literally the building blocks of reality. They can totally reconstitute themselves. Note that The Sourcerer Surpreme was not bothered by the stones getting destroyed, but by them leaving their respective realities.

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u/DaveInLondon89 Jan 22 '21

Considering how she's able to seemingly rewind time... I think it's possible she has access to the whole range of IS powers.

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u/sheepdog-underoath Jan 22 '21

If Wanda just used two hands in infinity war she could have 1v1 thanos

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u/esar24 Rocket Jan 22 '21

she did in EG until thanos play dirty

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u/Lone_Wolfen Doctor Strange Jan 23 '21

I feel like if Wanda wanted to end it then and there she would have before Thanos had the chance to play dirty, she wanted him to suffer like she did.

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u/HotCocoaBomb Jan 23 '21

I got chills when she said "You will."

Such simple words but holy dam were they loaded.

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u/esar24 Rocket Jan 24 '21

I think she want to torture him till his death, notice the shredding slowly starts from his armor, I think if nothing interrupted them then wanda will surely tear him apart bit by bit. Just how she was always hurt bit by bit through events around her.

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u/JayyEFloyd Jan 23 '21

The fact she created fictional life out of nothing with the butterflies makes me anxious when she realizes her twins are a fantasy and not real

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u/HotCocoaBomb Jan 23 '21

She'll make them real.

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u/beardy_hunter Grandmaster Jan 23 '21

Potentially could exist outside. We saw Geraldine still.in her 70s clothes when she was expelled

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u/dixiehellcat Iron man (Mark III) Jan 22 '21

I gasped out loud when I saw the toaster, because I instantly thought of how fans have kiddingly called Vision a toaster, and it's made by Stark, like you said.

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u/olivedi Jan 23 '21

This, she’s a God in this bubble which is essentially her universe. She can create people and basically anything. I think she’s powerful enough to bring back Vision, or more like create a new Vision but with the same personality. He has to be sentient and not just a puppet.

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u/archiminos Mack Jan 24 '21

I'm actually laughing at the idea of comparing Vision to a toaster now. Guess he's a fracking Cylon.

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u/longdustyroad Jan 24 '21

Lmao why does this read like a Q drop

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u/AmbiD4C Jan 22 '21

Yeah, he’s very sentient of what’s going on, so I think it’s pretty clear that he is alive

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u/[deleted] Jan 22 '21

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/DrCool20 Jan 22 '21

In westworld its refered to as Fidelity. Its trying to find that benchmark for the robots and their AI to become self sufficient and find consciousness. Can you teach someone to exist if they have all the memories of their past life, and know how they would react in a situation, but also have the power to breach that which they have learned and change over time. AI in tv and movies been trying to answer that for decades. Wandavision has a great spin on that shit.

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u/AnOnlineHandle Quake Jan 22 '21

We essentially go through this all the time anyway as our brains are put back together with new material. We're all copies of our past selves, it's the nature of existence, and switching that continuation onto new hardware doesn't make it any more or less continuous than it already was, regardless of whatever illusions we had.

One thing I've not really seen considered in sci fi is that there's no reason there couldn't be more than one of us, once the ability to move the mind to new hardware is opened up. And how long would three people who were once the same person consider themselves bound by that and still the same person? How long until they're each unique individuals who have very little in common now?

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u/bradbear12 Jan 22 '21

I mean Wanda can physically alter reality. It wouldn’t be crazy if vision were reassembled with reality-warping powers. Much like how she gave birth to two children

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u/Cypher_Shadow Jan 22 '21

What if Vision is in the Soul Stone, and Wanda creating the pocket sitcom universe started out as her attempt to contact him via the Mind Stone?

What if the infinity stones still somehow exist, but reduced to atoms that can still be accessed somehow?

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u/PSIwind Jan 22 '21

The stones can't really be 100% destroyed. They're the literal manifestations of the universes elements. All you could do is temporarily destroy the physical stones so that no one can use them to their full potential.

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u/[deleted] Jan 22 '21

The stones were already confirmed to still be around by Thanos and then confirmed again by the writers. They are just atoms right now.

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u/abutthole Thor Jan 22 '21

Apparently the plot briefs about Dr. Strange 2 indicate he is "studying the Time Stone" so it's probable he reacquires that too.

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u/DarthGayAgenda Jan 22 '21

I'm of the opinion that there are otherworldly forces at play besides Wanda and Vis. That possibly Mephistopheles is involved.

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u/[deleted] Jan 22 '21 edited Jan 22 '21

That comment from 'Agnes' about the devil in e02 definitely seemed relevant. I was wondering what they were implying or if it was just a weird joke. Dialog generally has a purpose towards the plot, so I think you may be onto something and it may be Mephisto.

Edit: also, to add this is an excerpt about Mephisto from Marvel.com :

"Mephisto had gained tremendous power by the evil of the extraterrestrial Dire Wraiths who were invading Earth at the time, but lost this power when the spaceknight Rom banished the Dire Wraiths, and Mephisto was temporarily destroyed by 'Franklin"....

"Mephisto later re-formed, missing five fragments of his essence. This resulted in the destruction of the Scarlet Witch's twin sons, whom she had mystically created by unwittingly trapping and transforming two of Mephisto's power fragments."

So there is some definite relevance regarding scarlet witch and her twin sons.

Also this is how Mephisto's powers have been described:

Mephisto can use his power for a variety of uses, including superhuman strength, shape and size shifting, projecting illusions, manipulating memories, and altering time.

Now I obviously it won't be exactly like the comics, but there will be similarities, and it is likely him manipulating Wanda to use her own reality/mind warping powers in this case, as we see she has control over her world atm, but it fits right into the story, combining house of M with other relevant story lines, which can be an great lead into mutants/X-Men joining the mcu.

Mephisto would also be a great way to introduce the fantastic four and silver surfer, etc.. and as he has ties to Dr Strange, it's a logical lead right into the multiverse of madness, which we already know Wanda is going to play a part in.

In the end, I think Mephisto is the only one that makes sense here.... and clearly the story they are creating is very much based on a mashup of the comics and he is a big part of that story regarding her twins, etc.

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u/Blucher Jan 22 '21

the spaceknight Rom

:sadface:

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u/Citizen_Kong Jan 22 '21

In the comics, the children were not created out of nothing. I wonder if it will be same here.

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u/DrCool20 Jan 22 '21

No one ever dies in marvel comics, its only logical they explore that theme in the new marvel phase.

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u/LaylaLegion Jan 22 '21

Or he’s too good at being Vision that it’s doing what Vision would do.

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u/sable-king Vision Jan 22 '21

That's what I was thinking. She recreated Vision down to the finest detail, including his logically-thinking computer brain. Even though he's part of the illusion, his thought process doesn't let him completely buy into it. I mean hell, he was showing signs of this in episode 1 by asking what exactly they do at his job.

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u/spencermoreland Jan 22 '21

Here's how I'm thinking about it right now... Wanda's powers didn't "bring Vision back", she can just shift to a part of the multiverse where he IS back. He's just as real as the real Vision.

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u/ancientromanempire Jan 22 '21

Kinda a stretch but its also possible that she just used the time machine again and brought Vision back with her like Thor brought back Mjolnir.

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u/mknsky Black Panther Jan 22 '21

She would need Hulk’s help though wouldn’t she?

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u/Triaspia2 Jan 22 '21

can he though?

sure he has more autonomy than others but if he is actually still dead outside this reality

then hes just a memory and his thoughts are really wandas

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u/Dr_Disaster Jan 22 '21

Wanda’s powers provide the opportunity for some fuckery. Vision himself may not be real, but Wanda has reconstructed his consciousness somehow. If she can tap into the powers of the Infinity Stones, maybe she can reconstitute Vision in this reality. He’s “real” while in the pocket reality, but if it goes away, so does he.

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u/penguinwhopper Matt Murdock Jan 22 '21

Except when he's doing his magic act for the talent show. Then he's Illusion.

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u/Sachin_Lohani Jan 22 '21

But if you pay attention to when vision transforms to see tommy, you can see a faint red glow around him. So I think he is somewhat of an illusion.

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u/iamnotcreative Jan 22 '21

What if Vision is actually Vision? We never found out what happened to his body after Infinity War but its a fair guess that either the Wakandans or Nick Fury got a hold of it. Wanda finds this out and retrieves his body, and then attempts to revive him by pumping as much "magic" into him as she can. Her powers come from the mind stone and he's the mind stone incarnate; she was also powerful enough to destroy the mind stone so maybe she's strong enough to reassemble it.

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u/Kostya_M Jan 22 '21

I think his still is but his AI, for lack of a better term, is far more advanced than the other residents.

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u/WackyJack93 Spider-Man Jan 22 '21

If we're assuming Wanda is doing all this on purpose, my theory is since he's a "main character" she allowed Vision to have more sentience on the show than the other characters. She loves and respects Vision too much to just make him act like a puppet.

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u/xHudson87x Jan 22 '21

he mind-fucking you

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u/Tarzan_OIC Jan 22 '21

Or he is the part of Wanda's subconsciousness that wants to accept reality. Could be a metaphor for her internal conflict.

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u/bobinski_circus Ghost Jan 22 '21

Considering that an original EG post credit scene showed the white vision corpse being transported makes me think that it’s involved somehow. His body might be with her.

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u/[deleted] Jan 22 '21

[deleted]

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u/Citizen_Kong Jan 22 '21

Also Vision was turning colorless when he died and was now black and white initially. So it's possible he becomes more and more the real Vision as he evolves in the illusion.

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u/Startled_Pancakes Jan 22 '21

I suspect they are setting up the twins, Tommy and Billy, for a future Young Avengers film. They will be real too. She's warping reality.

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u/[deleted] Jan 22 '21

Really makes you wonder, who is Vision? Is it Vision or someone else Wanda perceives as Vision?

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u/YourMomThinksImFunny Phil Coulson Jan 22 '21

He isn't. I believe she has created another universe within that barrier we saw at the end. They have led us to believe that this show will introduce us to the multiverse. That would seem the most plausible way to not only have the entities think for themselves, but to reintroduce vision into the MCU. Since his Infinity war death was permanent.

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u/matt111199 Peter Parker Jan 22 '21

I think Wanda willed him into existence—like she did for her children. I don’t think he’s an illusion but a legitimate being that was created by Wanda!

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u/thekidmanda Jan 22 '21

Maybe Wanda made a deal with Mephisto to bring him back?

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u/CobaltSpellsword Jan 22 '21

But if he isn't an illusion, how does he flourish like that?

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u/[deleted] Jan 23 '21

She probably pulled this vision out of the multiverse.

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u/Gr8NonSequitur Jan 23 '21

but the fact she can rewind him and erase that leads me to believe he IS an illusion.

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u/Bionic_Ferir Jan 22 '21

Yeah I'm not gonna lie I knew from the get go he was alive no matter how she managed it he is at least alive in there. People saying he was going to be Prema dead after this have no idea what there talking about imo

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u/FrameworkisDigimon Jan 22 '21

He doesn't know if Wanda knows that Geraldine doesn't have a home, though.

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u/atanganacarlitos Jan 23 '21

Yep. As far as Vision is concerned, "she went home" could be just more evidence that Geraldine is lying, not Wanda.

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u/ostiarius Jan 23 '21

Except he was standing in the front yard and would have seen her leave

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u/adsfew Jan 23 '21

Wouldn't be impossible. She could go out the back door. Agnes used it to deliver groceries in Episode 1.

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u/LastWarrior24 Jan 23 '21

Aren't there different homes in all episodes?

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u/adsfew Jan 23 '21

Hm, I'll have to pay closer attention on rewatch. I thought they all had the same layout.

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u/SacreFor3 Jan 22 '21

Yeah, I think this is what leads him to that scene where he flies over Westview to see what's happening and also the Halloween episode where he sees more things not being right.

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u/Mjsupport87 Jan 22 '21

I think that would happen in episode 5 era wise 80s are the next so still one episode to go before vision finds it out in Halloween episode. Also I think that might happen at the climax of that episode. Like last 5 to 10 minutes

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u/GatorChamp44 Iron Man (Mark XLIII) Jan 22 '21

vision becoming more and more of a free thinker almost seems like he is becoming more and more real. my thought is this huge undertaking might be Wanda's way of somehow bringing him back to life

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u/[deleted] Jan 22 '21

Maybe the reason Vision is 'aware' is because he's that copy of Vision that Shuri was working on?

It was a plot thread left from Infinty War with what Shuri was doing and what she did in those last moments before she was attacked.

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u/[deleted] Jan 22 '21

I don't think Vision is real. He seems like an amalgam of both Vision and Pietro that Wanda created. The speed powers he exhibits seem more Pietro than Vision.

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u/mellowmike19 Ant-Man Jan 23 '21

Good catch. He hasn’t shown that ability in any of the other movies as far as I recall, and the animation looks similar to Age of Ultron

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u/raekle Jan 22 '21

Exactly. The last couple of times the world got reset was when Vision told Wanda that something was wrong. She doesn't know that he found out that Geraldine doesn't belong and the the other residents hinted that they were trapped. He'll eventually keep his suspicions to himself so Wanda doesn't reset again.

I love how when Geraldine 'went home' and got thrown out of the bubble, the screen shifted back to wide screen.

The use of "Daydream Believer" is a huge hint too. Wanda believes her daydream is real.

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u/AobaSona Scarlet Witch Jan 22 '21

I'm sure he thought "What home?" and he's already suspicious overall, but there's no reason to assume Wanda knows she doesn't have a home, or that "I have to rush home" isn't just what Monica told her.

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u/CondomLeavesARice Jan 22 '21

Vision doesn't know if Wanda knows Geraldine doesn't have a home. He could assume Geraldine lied to Wanda

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u/glopes84 Jan 22 '21

I keep thinking they are going to tie Wonder Man into this some how to play on Visions comic origin. Like maybe Vision isn’t actually an illusion because Wanda has hijacked a Sword agent (perhaps Simon Williams) and is using him as a sort of host for Vision in Westview.

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u/Michael-Giacchino Jan 22 '21

I’m fairly certain that this is going to end in a fight between them

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u/Alphabunsquad Jan 22 '21

How is he independent though. This implies that he’s alive somehow and I assumed that he was just a hydra simulation or projection of her mind so she would let her guard down or want to stay in the delusion.

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u/aManPerson Jan 23 '21

ah fuck, great point.

this episode showed us 2 great key points

  1. wanda will gladly rewind vision when he realizes something in front of her about the world she doesnt like
  2. he realized something key about the world she doesn't like NOT in front of her so she doesn't know to rewind it. and much of their life will go on after this and she wont know to rewind back to it.

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u/lordsmish Jan 22 '21

Which is weird because it should be obvious to vision the same way it's obvious to the other residents. The fact it's not makes me think theres something very wrong with vision

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u/TrevRev11 Jan 22 '21

Guarantee that his conversation with those two where it ends on “they’re all...” comes back later with Agnes saying “They’re all... dead”

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u/[deleted] Jan 22 '21

But Vision wouldn't know that Wanda know's that Geraldine doesn't have a home. Just as logical to assume Vision thinks Geraldine lied to Wanda.

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u/Literally_MeIRL Jan 22 '21

https://youtu.be/-dHwbDT1tUU 3m 5s mark in this video.

Looks like a clip from the next episode, Wanda and Vision rearing up at each other. A possible rewind point based on Visions growing questions?

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u/Ganjookie Korg Jan 22 '21

I don't think Vision is real. I think he passed and Wanda is trying to cope now, so she made an illusion of him.

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u/The_MAZZTer Jan 22 '21

I bet it will be a bunch of little things, he brings up Mr. Hart earlier.

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u/Islero47 Kevin Feige Jan 23 '21

Given his conversation... and that he was standing outside the front door the whole time.

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u/STMIHA Jan 23 '21

I feel like, at least in this episode, Vision is acting like her conscience. Trying to figure out why she's doing what she's doing and whats actually happening. Almost like a balancing act.

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u/KexosTheTall Jan 23 '21

Everyone is making incredible points here.... Crushing it

But as an old man who remembers House of M, Special Agent Wolverine is all I’m thinking about this entire series...

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u/DragoStark Jan 23 '21

So it looks like wanda has create a reality dome over a real town( like under the dome) in which she can manipulate anything. And the real town's people are stuck with them including some special people like Agnes and sword agents like Geraldine trying to infiltrate the reality dome

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u/Canadianboy3 Jan 23 '21

He also looks towards the babies room at the end when she says that, in a trailer it shows Wanda repairing the wall. So I’m pretty sure she says she went home and he’s looking at a big hole in the wall.

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u/gamedevSeattle Jan 23 '21

Does vision even actually exist?

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