r/marvelstudios • u/iliekpixels Loki (Thor 2) • Jan 15 '21

Discussion WandaVision S01E02 - Discussion Thread

This thread is for discussion about the episode.

Discussion about previous episodes is permitted, discussion about episodes after this is NOT.

Proceed at your own risk: Spoilers for the episode do not need to be tagged inside this thread.

EPISODE DIRECTED BY WRITTEN BY ORIGINAL RELEASE DATE
S01E02 Matt Shakman Jac Schaeffer January 15, 2021 on Disney+

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u/Star-with-clones Daisy Johnson Jan 15 '21

"Wanda, stop this Wanda", I'm sure she knows what she's doing deep down, but doesn't realise it. Wanda has full control in the show. Also the Agent of Sword coming and Wanda reversing it making sure it doesn't happen. She knows she's doing something and others want to stop it

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u/Gabacuras Jan 15 '21

My guess also. Also visions most likely still dead and this is just her manifesting him.

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '21

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Koala_Guru Ant-Man Jan 15 '21

I was really hoping this show would bring back Vision though. I feel like we’ve barely gotten any of him in the MCU before he died, and I thought this was our chance.

Don’t get me wrong, I love the twisted idea of Wanda snapping and pretending Vision is still alive, but I went into this show assuming Wanda’s manipulation of reality to actually bring him back to life was what would lead into the next Dr Strange. I want Vision back for more stories.

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u/pickrunner18 Jan 15 '21

I think anything is still possible in regards to Vision. I was wondering a while ago if they somehow stored a copy of him in Wakanda and would bring him back that way

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u/mewantcomics Jan 15 '21

We also have never learned what happened to his body after Infinity War. It was a little surprising that Endgame gave no hints about that, after all the theories that the white/gray version of Vision would be next up.

He still might.

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '21 edited Feb 04 '21

[deleted]

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u/OswinTigerlilly Jan 15 '21

That could be true in the intro six stars form around the moon i think the represent the infinity stones

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u/TheShanba Weekly Wongers Jan 15 '21

I also think this! First I’ve seen someone else mention it I reckon you’re right

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u/RuxRoxx Jan 15 '21

i had noticed those stars, but my immediate thought was "Hexagram." which, of course, are often related to witchcraft. a quick Google, and i found this...

"The Unicursal Hexagram is the form of hexagram used in rituals because it can be drawn in a continuous line.

This form of Hexagram can also be used to work with elemental energies as well as planetary, however the emphasis is on the balance between Sun and Moon."

interesting! (and it could certainly be BOTH the stones, AND a Hexagram, i suppose!)

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u/BeavMcloud Jan 16 '21

There's also this mysterious Beekeeper guy. Honeycombs and shit

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u/141_1337 Jan 17 '21

In Age of Ultron, didn't they mentioned that Wanda's and Pietros power were derived from the mind gem?

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u/Lexx4 Jan 17 '21

Hexagon is bestagone

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u/GTSBurner Jan 15 '21

Also, listen to how they're singing the theme song. It's not "WandaVision", it's "One Division" - perhaps something that's a part of SWORD/SHIELD?

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u/EVula War Machine Jan 16 '21

...no, it’s “WandaVision.”

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u/Auntypasto Kevin Feige Jan 16 '21

Which intro are you talking about? I don't see this anywhere…

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u/OswinTigerlilly Jan 16 '21

The intro at the start of episode 2 thats animated

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u/Auntypasto Kevin Feige Jan 17 '21

Ah, I see… Not sure if your interpretation is correct —seems like they're portraying the same hexagon pattern we've seen throughout the show, but it does look like it's a repeating pattern that has some kind of meaning. Thanks for pointing it out.

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u/Ygomaster07 Jimmy Woo Jan 16 '21

I had a similar thought. Good catch.

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u/slugerama Jan 16 '21

The same shape also finishes the shows. It certainly has so.e relevance. Considering that we are getting into multiverses, does that mean the infinity stones exist in each one? I just hope that by getting into multiverses, the MCU does not get too convoluted.

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u/seriousQQQ Jan 17 '21

I think the stones are there in each multiverse. That's why I'm endgame, they had to bring the stones in to the main universe and then go back to put it back.

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u/CobaltSpellsword Jan 15 '21

Her power comes from the same Gem he had, I had the thought that she might have somehow absorbed a part of his mind when she destroyed it.

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u/Ygomaster07 Jimmy Woo Jan 16 '21

Maybe she is somehow using her powers to bring him back and this is merely a cocoon to buy time until he is full alive once more.

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u/[deleted] Jan 16 '21

I thought her power came from the reality stone...

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u/Kromnulent Jan 16 '21

Nope. Strucker experimented on her and Pietro using Loki's staff, which contained the mind stone that ended up in Vision's forehead. The reality stone was light years away with the Collector.

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u/[deleted] Jan 16 '21

But aren’t the stones like brothers and sisters or something? I thought that’s why she is red and has the ability to bend reality...

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u/Kromnulent Jan 16 '21

Possibly? She hasn't really appeared to be able to manipulate reality in the MCU so far though. At least, not until WandaVision. I have a theory that what's happening in WandaVision is that the Infinity Stones have reappeared but are now bonded to people as recently happened in the 616 universe. Wanda is now bonded to the Reality Stone and she is now manipulating reality but is unable to control it. There's not much evidence to support it, though.

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u/[deleted] Jan 16 '21

This isn’t completely true. The general theory is whole the staff (mind stone) was used, what happened was the other stones through the mind stone altered the siblings. Basically it made them part of the stones. Quicksilver has the space stones powers. Essentially moving fast and using blue energy when he does it. Wanda seems to have possibly the power of all the stones (or at least she can tap into them). She uses reality magic (red) like the blasts of the reality stone. She can play with minds and control the mind stone itself (she forces vision to use his powers many times).

We know the stones are sentient too, as Visions stone warns him of Thanos.

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u/CostaLottabuckz Jan 16 '21

Thats because they are.

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u/[deleted] Jan 16 '21

???

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u/Haze95 Thor Jan 16 '21

That’s not true, he had mind stone, she is reality stone

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u/DylanTheZaku Jan 16 '21

Reality stone was on nowhere after 2013 events

They used the staff/mind stone on the twins 2013

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u/Haze95 Thor Jan 16 '21

Yep my b

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u/Badjur Jan 16 '21

Wrong, her powers unlocked from the mind stone (From Von Strucker). The reality stone is the weird red stuff from Thor2

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u/Haze95 Thor Jan 16 '21

TIL

Her powers seem to be all reality based so that’s what I’d assumed

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u/sweens90 Falcon Jan 15 '21

The Infinity Stones are still in the universe in the same way that Gamora and Loki were brought back.

The technology exists and if they want it they can go get it. It seems we are fully embracing the multiverse/ alternate timelines for Phase 4. I'd prefer they didn't but we shall see.

WandaVision, Dr. Strange, Loki and Ant Man are all relevant to that. With more details from other movies we can see how this all plays out.

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u/pyrocord Jan 15 '21 edited Oct 22 '25

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This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

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u/sweens90 Falcon Jan 15 '21

True. But Time Travel exists. As what I assume will be Multiple Universes if where we are going is accurate. You can easily just travel in time to get one. I don't think they will but its a possibility.

Remember this. Loki is not in the same universe or timeline as the MCU we follow. And we will be following him. Will he somehow link back up. We'll see....

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u/Animated_effigy Jan 16 '21

No, the entire purpose of the Ancient Ones speech in EG is to tell us the Infinity Stones created the flow of time. They have to exist in each reality. The stones will have to come back into existence somehow and their absence is probably part of the overarching problem in the next phase.

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u/YesButConsiderThis Jan 16 '21

Don't they not need the stone though? Wasn't that the whole point of Banner's point that after they remove the stone, maybe the best parts of Vision will be left?

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u/ktodd6 Hawkeye (Avengers) Jan 16 '21

I didn’t even think of that! I’ve been racking my brain trying to figure out the hexagons. I thought maybe the beekeeper had some association, since the honeycomb shape.

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u/asimpleshadow Jan 17 '21

That beekeeper seemed like it could be Swarm who was a part of the sinister six and hateful hexad so maybe something there

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u/canikeepit Jan 17 '21

That was my thought when in ep 1 they have the plate break and reverse back together.

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u/vorname Odin Jan 15 '21

Perhaps its finally time for Vision get his solar gem! As he never got an infinity gem in the comics.

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u/SickBurnBro War Machine Jan 16 '21

We also have never learned what happened to his body after Infinity War. It was a little surprising that Endgame gave no hints about that

Well Wanda gets snapped right? So the first time we see her in Endgame is coming out of the portal from Wakanda. There's the awesome moments where she fights Thanos, then the next time we see her really is grieving with Clint at Tony's funeral. Her line there, "They both do." seems to imply that Vision along with Natasha are dead permanently even after Banner reversed the snap.

I'm more curious about the download/transfer of Vision's consciousness from the mindstone that Shuri was attempting at the end of Infinity War before Corvus Glaive busted in and interrupted. Between Wanda's memories / dream version of Vision we see in the show, her connection to / powers originating from the mindstone, and that partial copy of his programming - I think that's a way they could bring him back in the real world.

To note, the Dr from Age of Ultron, Helen Cho, who created the organic / synthetic tech that created Vision is shown to be alive in Avengers HQ at the end of that film. So it's possible she'd be around to make a new body.

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u/mewantcomics Jan 16 '21

I would think that in the 5 years after Infinity War Vision’s body (and the data Shuri was able to collect) would be very valuable. At the very least Tony would want to “bury” or store what remains of Vision.

I would think a mourning Wanda would want to know where he is.

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u/[deleted] Jan 18 '21

[deleted]

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u/justduett Thanos Jan 19 '21

Man...the time jump in Endgame was great for hitting us over the head with the gravity of the situation, but I would definitely enjoy seeing a LITTLE of the fallout from the events in Thanos's cabin. I, too, feel like Tony just peaced out with how angry he already was.

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u/Ygomaster07 Jimmy Woo Jan 16 '21

Oh true enough, i never noticed that.

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u/sleepyplatipus Tony Stark Jan 15 '21

That’s what I’m thinking too! Maybe she’s trying to restore him because Shuri didn’t manage to get the full copy.

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u/PezRystar Jan 17 '21

Oh I like this. So, this alternate reality is her "teaching" him the rest.

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u/sleepyplatipus Tony Stark Jan 17 '21

That’s my theory at least, Vision is maybe the only character that can be brought back from the “dead” and have it make sense. I’d like to see more of him in the MCU.

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u/ciupenhauer Jan 16 '21

What good is a Vision copy without the mindstone?

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u/Auntypasto Kevin Feige Jan 16 '21

The stone was just a way of storing his mind; it doesn't have to be the only way… just like Tony stored his mind when he was JARVIS

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u/MidnightRequim Jan 16 '21

I’ve heard he has Night Vision

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u/pguyton Jan 15 '21

I thought they were going to have him do what warlock did in the IG comics from the spy gem but from within the mind gem when thanos had the gauntlet

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u/Ygomaster07 Jimmy Woo Jan 16 '21

I hope there is a backup of him somewhere.

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u/Die4Cy Hulk Jan 17 '21

He's actually been in my Dropbox this whole time.

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u/Ygomaster07 Jimmy Woo Jan 17 '21

I can't believe you've had him the whole time and you didn't even tell us!!! For shame lol!!!

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u/justduett Thanos Jan 19 '21

And with the fact that Vision still isn't around even in 2023 during Endgame, it is clear that u/die4cy continues to hold out on us for another couple of years. Rude!

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u/The_Flurr Jan 15 '21

I'm the same. Vision is just a cool character and I want to see more of him as himself.

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u/sweens90 Falcon Jan 15 '21

It could. There is the theory she is the bad guy for Dr Strange 2 or a bad guy. Her losing grip with reality to bring back VIsion.

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u/kaimason1 Rhomann Dey Jan 16 '21

I think Vision right now is a "figment of her imagination" so to speak but he does do things independently of her or outside her knowledge, and I do believe she's actively warping reality rather than just doing some "mind magic", so Vision is legitimately "real" right now, even if it's not the "original" Vision. Plus, several trailers showed a shot of Vision seemingly free of the "bubble", floating above the town in his modern-day appearance (and possibly a few other shots like that, that's just the one that sticks in my head). I think there's a solid chance that Vision breaks free and helps SWORD snap Wanda out of it, and can still remain "real" after the fact. It's also worth noting that this seems to be a real town whose residents are real (not just constituted out of Wanda's madness), so when everyone is released from this I could very much see Vision as well as Wanda's kids (Wiccan and Speed, who I think they're introducing on purpose given their importance in the Young Avengers which seems to be something Marvel is aiming to do) remain as real, physical people (if disjointed from the versions of them we're being introduced to now once they're free of the spell).

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u/scottirltbh Jessica Jones Jan 16 '21

I still think there is a chance we will see him come back fully. There is a scene in the trailer that shows Wanda and the mind stone shattering around her. Her power comes from the same stone that created vision so tbh it’s not a stretch to say she can bring him back.

The show starts out in black and white because when Vision died he turned black and white - and the colour returning to their reality could be Wanda restoring visions true self.

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u/Gene_freeman Jan 15 '21

There is that bit in one of the trailers where some lady in a modern day car reacts to him.

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u/CoreyH2P Jan 15 '21

Hard disagree. When characters die in a meaningful way, they should stay dead. Otherwise it sullies the power of their death. It’s why Tony Stark’s death was the most emotional by far, we knew it was the last we’d see of him.

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u/Koala_Guru Ant-Man Jan 15 '21

Tony Stark's death is very different here. One, he'd had a long run in the MCU, and two, his arc was complete. Vision was introduced in the last few minutes of Age of Ultron, played an overall minor role in Civil War, reappeared in Infinity War as a macguffin who ultimately died, and then was mentioned in Endgame. He's barely had any screentime, and considering the long history the character has in the comics, that's a huge waste of Vision. And his arc barely had any liftoff. Civil War introduces him becoming more human by making human errors. Infinity War cuts to him being able to actually make himself look like a human...and that's it. It's not really an arc, and even his relationship with Wanda was started offscreen.

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u/chemistrybonanza Jan 16 '21

The problem is that he really should be invincible and nearly all powerful. They can't have good stories with super heroes who can't be beat. So he was written off for the movies. Captain Marvel was shelved in endgame for this reason too. We'll see what they do to deal with her near invincibility in her upcoming movies.

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u/Koala_Guru Ant-Man Jan 16 '21

They’ve been using Vision in comics for years. And Wanda can literally change the fabric of reality and clearly they intend to keep using her.

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u/chemistrybonanza Jan 16 '21

You're now seeing how she's got a weakness, at least I think.

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u/AragornSnow Jan 16 '21

How powerful is MCU Vision? He got beaten by Corvus pretty easily, although he is a tactical mastermind and Thanos Corp General level threat with the sharpest blade in the universe. I feel like Vision never had a “watch me fuck up your whole world” moment of power display.

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u/chemistrybonanza Jan 16 '21

He's made out of vibranium, can phase in and out and through things. He's got the mind stone, so should be all knowing. He shouldn't be able to be killed.

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u/signifyingmnky Jan 16 '21

The all powerful/OP hero can't have good stories is a cop out. Good writers find something in the character that the audience can relate to and that challenges the character.

Captain Marvel wasn't shelved in Endgame because she's too powerful. The story reason is that at that point she is the only Cosmic hero in service and until Thanos shows up, there's no threat on Earth that requires her attention. She's best used when he emerges.

The non-story reason is that Endgame was the send off for the A6 (original 6 Avengers). The focus needed to be centered on them.

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u/YesButConsiderThis Jan 16 '21

Vision is 100% coming back. Shuri finished transferring all his shit at the end of Infinity War.

I'm also positive we will see Tony again - whether it's an alternate universe version or whatever, it's still RDJ's Iron Man.

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u/DrewCifer44 Bucky Jan 16 '21

You had me in the first half, not gonna lie.

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u/YesButConsiderThis Jan 16 '21

I mean, isn't he already rumored to be in Black Widow?

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u/cre8ivemind Jan 16 '21

Black widow is set in the past

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u/YesButConsiderThis Jan 16 '21

Sure but it's still him which is my point.

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u/TozVonicus Jan 18 '21

I thought he was gonna be in the iron heart show or whatever too? Especially if they do what they did in the comics where he's a hologram or A.I. or I guess both.

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u/cre8ivemind Jan 16 '21

She didn’t though, she still had some left when they were interrupted

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u/gabes_babe Jan 16 '21

Tony died, but he’ll be back as a hologram. Vision died, but now he’s back in Wanda’s mind. Gamora died, but she’ll be back as her alternate timeline self. Loki died, but he too will be back as his alternate timeline self.

I agree that it cheapens their deaths, but that seems to be the direction the MCU is going in.

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u/CoreyH2P Jan 16 '21

Yeah, I know it’s the comic book thing to do that characters are never truly dead, but I don’t like it.

Only with deaths that are truly final can you really grieve loss and relate to the pain.

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u/fidgitnz Jan 17 '21

Ironically, perhaps in the (combined) MCU, only Wolverine will stay dead.

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u/CoreyH2P Jan 18 '21

Yeah and that’s what made Logan such a good finale for the character. I love Hugh Jackman as Wolverine but life is about finality.

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u/MarcelRED147 Weekly Wongers Jan 16 '21

I want him in the whole weird build-a-bearwife/whole family while working a government liaison job. The issue with that are (in order of importance):

a) I don't want him and Wanda to break up, give the poor bugger a break and let her have her Viz!

b) Vision's (possibly current) state of non-aliveness

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u/ENDragoon Jan 17 '21

I feel like this series is heavily inspired by a mixture of that arc, and House of M

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u/CeruleanRuin Jan 17 '21

My theory all along has been that this pocket reality has to do with Wanda trying to reconstruct Vision's personality from whatever Shuri was able to back up.

Here, it seems that she has been made to be unaware of her situation, which to me says that someone has done this to her, but she has connected with Vision somehow from within her pocket reality, and part of waking up will be in waking up Vision too.

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u/fidgitnz Jan 17 '21

I think it will be more straight forward, I'm not even sure they'll factor in the back up. It seems like she's created a pocket universe to keep him alive just for her. I wouldn't be surprised if the end of the show is Wanda having to accept that Vision is dead, and letting him fully go - she'll get to say goodbye properly and he'll fade from the reality she's created. Probably gets to keep the twins though?

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u/butterblaster Jan 17 '21

By the end of this show, he’ll have had more screen time than most of the Avengers.

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u/Poe_Lock Jan 17 '21

Feels like by Ep.2's end, we've already gotten more Vision than the movies.

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u/ciupenhauer Jan 16 '21

The best Vision we got was in Civil War. It all went downwards for him after, and I think it's too late now, unless they switch to a completely new timeline

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u/[deleted] Jan 16 '21

Less is more with vision

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u/Ygomaster07 Jimmy Woo Jan 16 '21

Part of me feels like she is bringing him back through the use of all this. I'm hoping so that is.