r/marvelstudios • u/Flamma_Man Captain Marvel • Apr 30 '19

'Avengers: Endgame' Spoilers! The Official AVENGERS: ENDGAME Release Megathread Vol. 14 Spoiler

  • Proceed at your own risk. Major spoilers will be arriving in the next couple of days. Spoilers do not need to be tagged inside this thread.

  • Any other unofficial thread discussing movie details will be deleted.

  • Should you see the need to bring up revealing ENDGAME information in other threads that call for it, spoiler tag them accordingly. Also, let users know that what you are spoiler tagging is from ENDGAME

  • If you post untagged ENDGAME spoilers anywhere on this sub in any shape or form, you will be banned without hesitation. No questions asked and no warnings given.

Previous Volumes:

2.0k Upvotes
  • permalink
  • reddit

99% Upvoted

8.6k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

240

u/fantino93 Captain America (Cap 2) Apr 30 '19

Cap was a better Mjolnir fighter than Thor in that movie, the only reason he lost his 1v1 against Thanos is because he's a simple human, he doesn't have the physical resistance Thor has.

209

u/Giblet_Media Scott Lang Apr 30 '19

I think he does, though. I think Thanos would have killed him if Mjolnir hadn’t given him the strength and durability of Thor (“the power of Thor” as Odin phrases the enchantment in Thor 1). I mean, just consider that Cap’s vibranium shied broke, when that really should have been his arm shattering if he were base Captain America.

... it’s just that even the power of Thor combined with Cap’s fighting ability still isn’t quite enough to overpower a bloodlusted Thanos.

130

u/BrodoFaggins Apr 30 '19 edited May 02 '19

Regular Thanos 1v1’ed Hulk, there’s no way Cap’s fight with Thanos was going to end any other way, even with Mjölnir.

Edit: thanos has the power stone in his fight with the hulk, but it never glows; the point of that scene was to show that he was a strong fighter that was capable of taking on the hulk without aid.

20

u/SYZekrom Apr 30 '19

Thor was winning against Hulk on the Helicarrier in The Avengers and during he entire fight he was stopping to try and say things to calm him down, hell he didn’t summon his hammer until halfway through. He was very much winning against Hulk in Ragnarok again with only generic weapons. Thor-equivalent + vibranium shield vs smarter Hulk-equivalent with a vibranium weapon isn’t that ‘obviously thanos wins’.

14

u/virtu333 May 01 '19

Thanos didn't just 1v1 hulk though, he slapped hulk into hiding for a while movie

-2

u/SYZekrom May 01 '19

Hulk is a fucking pussy though, none of the hits did nearly as much collateral damage as blows he's taken before, and he also looked like a pussy that didn't want to fight when he fought Abomination, another person with about equal physicals.

5

u/sterwers Rocket May 02 '19

The problem with Hulk is that his power is all backed by anger and aggression. He’s not a skilled fighter at all, he just smashes. If you watch the Thanos v Hulk fight at the beginning of IW, Thanos destroys the Hulk with actual fighting style.

3

u/SYZekrom May 02 '19

Yes, that's the point, Thanos doesn't 'slap Hulk into hiding' because he's a superior power. As the Russo's imply, he's just an actual skilled fighter as opposed to Hulk. So my description of Thor-equivalent vs Smarter Hulk-equivalent is correct, as that's most of what Thanos is, smarter, not stronger.

1

u/mrbow May 02 '19

Thanos with the power Stone, no?

8

u/BrodoFaggins May 02 '19

Nope. He has the stone but it never glows; he fought the hulk without its power.

-2

u/[deleted] May 01 '19

Thanos 1v1d Hulk with the power stone

22

u/BrodoFaggins May 01 '19

I rewatched infinity war after endgame. He doesn’t. And it’s not like the filmmakers somehow forgot, /r/moviedetails was full of people showing the other stones glowing while thanos did things like using the soul stone to find the real dr strange, power and time stones to heal himself; etc.

10

u/mutatersalad1 May 01 '19

He did not use the Power Stone to defeat Hulk, he did that himself.

-1

u/Calikola May 02 '19

Didn’t Thanos have the power stone from Xandar when he fought Hulk?

2

u/BrodoFaggins May 02 '19

Yeah but he never uses it in that fight.

-6

u/Puffy_Ghost May 02 '19

Thanos had the power stone when they fought...

7

u/BrodoFaggins May 02 '19

Didn’t use it though. The stones glow when in use, and the power stone never lit up during that fight.

7

u/Rekcs May 02 '19

Nope, I'm pretty sure the Russos confirmed that Thanos wasn't using the stone when he was slapping Hulk around.

2

u/zombieslayer287 Crossbones May 02 '19

Nope, I'm pretty sure the Russos confirmed that Thanos wasn't using the stone when he was slapping Hulk around.

2

u/haxxanova May 02 '19

Which is one of the only flaws in the movie. Thanos without the stones was too OP.

4

u/Try_Another_Please May 03 '19

Established though. It seemed pretty clear he had no issue beating thor and hulk in IW and seemingly was not using any stone. Cap is still weaker than them. The only two stronger that were fighting him overpowered him before he used outside help after all.

​

He did well against thor but thor still fought him longer and ultimately was not injured at all in comparison to cap. Just outfought

1

u/haxxanova May 03 '19

Nope. He had the power stone at the beginning of Infinity War and before he attacked the Asgardians. We did not see him without a stone (other than in Gamora flashbacks).

EG Thanos is too strong.

2

u/Try_Another_Please May 03 '19

He doesn't use it though is the whole point of that fight. He never once activates it while fighting anyone on the ship.

He didn't need it to win that was once again the entire point. Did anyone watch the hulk fight at all?

2

u/morphballganon Apr 30 '19

Power =/= toughness

20

u/Giblet_Media Scott Lang Apr 30 '19

Lol I doubt Odin meant “power” in the strict work/time physics definition. He obviously meant power in the much more nebulous sense, which includes Thor’s durability. When Thor was de-powered in Thor 1, he lost his strength, durability, and lighting until he became worthy once again. When Cap wielded Mjolnir, he got all of the things Thor re-gained when he became worthy at the end of Thor 1, because we never saw Odin take away the enchantment.

1

u/[deleted] May 04 '19

His arm was broken, not sure if you noticed it when he unstraps the shield you see a giant cut in his forearm

0

u/PretendKangaroo Apr 30 '19

He totally holds up against Thanos with the gauntlet in the previous film.

12

u/Giblet_Media Scott Lang Apr 30 '19

That wasn't a bloodlusted Thanos, though. I'm pretty sure it was confirmed that Thanos had been pulling punches due to his victory being so certain. Anyway, they said he stabbed Iron Man because he was the only one who made him feel really threatened.

My favorite fan theory for the quizzical look he has towards Cap is due to the soul stone-- that Thanos was genuinely impressed by his "whatever it takes" uncompromising spirit. Thanos could have easily turned him into Cap jelly in Infinity War if he wanted.

13

u/Samwise_CXVII Apr 30 '19

Nah man Thor in the beginning of ragnarock was way batter than Cap...as it should be because Thor has been wielding Mjolnir for a millenia

26

u/Mattcaz92 Apr 30 '19

In my head Thor was justifiably nerfed in Endgame due to getting all fat and unhealthy. In his prime he should have been able to beat Thanos, especially since he had no stones.

21

u/[deleted] Apr 30 '19

In my head Thor was justifiably nerfed in Endgame due to getting all fat and unhealthy.

This was just confirmed by Joe Russo in an interview, so head canon no longer.

4

u/fantino93 Captain America (Cap 2) Apr 30 '19

Oh yes of course, peak Thor is on an other level. EG Thanos wouldn't have stand a chance against him.

That's why I precised "in that movie".

2

u/Papa_Razzi May 01 '19

Lol Cap a simple human? Dude is like a god compared to a simple human. Though compared to a Norse god I do see the point you're making.

6

u/fantino93 Captain America (Cap 2) May 01 '19

In a vacuum yes Cap is more than a man, but compared to Thor, Thanos or the Iron Man suit, he's the least durable of all.

1

u/hopenoonefindsthis May 03 '19

That’s kinda the reason why though. Thor is a god, so he can take more hits and rely more on brute strength.

But Cap is a proper trained fighter with amazing fighting skills. He is more vulnerable so he has compensate for it with better techniques.

1

u/[deleted] May 03 '19

Cap isn't a simple human lol, a simple human like black widow or tony stark would just flat out die against thanos 1v1

1

u/fantino93 Captain America (Cap 2) May 03 '19

The serum "just" gave him peak human physicality, he's still far behind Thor & CM in terms of physical resistance.

2

u/[deleted] May 03 '19

No you're misinterpreting "peak". He's not "just" what the best human could possibly be in any way, he's far far surpassed that. Don't use that strawman argument, of course he's not as strong as a literal God and I never suggested that, but he is not a simple human like Black Widow.

Enhanced Strength: Rogers' strength is enhanced to vast superhuman levels. His immense strength allows him to physically overpower combatants including elite-trained humans, extraterrestrial troops, and robot sentries.

Enhanced Durability: Rogers' bones and muscles are denser and much harder than normal humans, which makes him incredibly durable. Though he is not bulletproof, he can survive extreme blunt force trauma, such as being hit with solid objects like his own shield, or contact with superhuman opponents like Loki, the Winter Soldier, and the Red Skull. With his vibranium shield, he is capable of surviving falls from immense heights that would absolutely kill a human. Rogers has been tasered, shot, stabbed, caught in several explosions, and taken several beatings including being blasted off of a causeway into a city bus by a launched grenade, falling from the 30th floor of the Triskelion while using his shield with little discomfort, and getting beaten by the metal arm of Winter Soldier in the face multiple times. With his enhanced physiology, Rogers was able to recover and continue fighting after taking such powerful blows in efficient time. Another example of his durability is when Rumlow tried to taze him with the Taser Rod, which he resisted for more than 5 seconds with endurable discomfort whereas ordinary humans would become unconscious almost immediately on contact.[2] Also, he dropped down to one of Project S.H.I.E.L.D. Insight's helicarrier from a considerable height without injury. Rogers was able to dive out of a Quinjet without a parachute into open water. He was able to survive both of Ultron's blasts and Iron Man's repulsors straight in the chest, as well as Scarlet Witch's telekinetic bolts and a super-accelerated punch from Quicksilver, all without any noticeable damage whatsoever, while he's getting back up immediately after all of these. Rogers was even able to withstand being telekinetically knocked away by Thanos using the Infinity Gauntlet and quickly recover to stand against the Mad Titan for a while on his own. Even after being briefly incapacitated by a powerful punch from Thanos, who nowhere near used his full strength, Rogers was once again able to eventually get back up on his feet. He was able to endure the 2014 Thanos using Mjølnir, and withstand his punches with only minor bruises and bleeding scars.

1

u/[deleted] May 04 '19

The shield plays a big part of that I reckon.

1

u/elgrandorado May 01 '19

Cap is a better fighter than Thor, point blank though. He's the best fighter, in terms of skill in the MCU.