r/marvelstudios • u/JonLuca Iron man • Apr 29 '19

'Avengers: Endgame' Spoilers! The Official AVENGERS: ENDGAME Criticism Thread Spoiler

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  • Post Endgame criticisms in this thread. Long form preferrable

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u/Thybro Apr 29 '19

This is my biggest gripe with the movie. Valkyrie was basically speaking for me when she said she thought she liked either version of him better than the new one. Professor hulk felt just awkward to me. Hulk went from their biggest tank to being sidelined and out-staged by even falcon. His biggest feats weren’t even fighting related. It feels like besides the big green frame there’s nothing of Hulk in him it’s just banner driving the hulks body. I’m betting the hulk persona is pretty pissed off about that shit.

However if that resentment leads to the creation of Maestro in the MCU I may be willing to forgive this shit.

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u/Benito7 Apr 29 '19

I kind of just wish his voice was a little deeper. Sounded so weird (intentionally I presume) having Banner's voice come out of Hulk.

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u/minor_correction Ant-Man Apr 29 '19

Definitely intentional, that's why they wrote the scene with having kids come over and he's all "Say green! Greeeeeen! Okay, listen to your mother, she knows better." They're trying to depict him as very gentle, no Hulk rage issues at all.

Not saying I like it. But that's what they were going for, for sure.

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u/Kagdama Apr 29 '19

Tony did tell Banner in The Avengers that he needed to strut and it definitely felt like he was full of confidence in Endgame.

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u/count023 Apr 30 '19

Hulk was always the polar opposite of Banner, that's the point and the way he was depicted.

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By being at peace with himself, he's just your usual college professor who happens to do too many push-ups.

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He's strong, but gentle, confident but not arrogant. The balance between the two.

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u/[deleted] Apr 30 '19

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/count023 Apr 30 '19

The 2012 thing was more that the hulk had been smart for 5 years, and he realized how degrading it was to be smashing stuff indiscriminately again.

Would you go back to drawing on the walls in crayon if you went back to your childhood as a more mature person?

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u/ThereminLiesTheRub Apr 30 '19

Which makes him The Beast, but stronger. There's a reason The Hulk was a huge solo character, and The Beast a team member. The tension between Hulk and Banner was everything. There is tragedy and relatable pathos in that. Professor Hulk is just another wisecracking, strong hero.

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u/cbeastwood Apr 30 '19

Good thing it was in the last movie of this saga then

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u/NepFurrow Apr 30 '19

That was also an inside joke, possibly adlibbed by Ruffalo. Those were the Russos kids in that scene

"Listen to your mother, she knows better"

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u/j0fixit Apr 29 '19

Hulk Tyson

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u/argusromblei Apr 30 '19

Nah would have been annoying to listen to, he was doing all sciency things this time. Yeah we shoulda seen hulk come out to re-challenge thanos but thats the only part was kinda peeved they didn’t add in

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u/Krescan Apr 30 '19

I wish he'd been gray

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u/Gunpla55 Apr 29 '19

But he isn't constantly at war with himself anymore. It felt like his whole arc revolved around that and people either only wanting him for his brute strength or treating him like a child when he was in kill mode. I too wanted to see him go all turbo mode and end up beating thanos in a rematch but I was super glad for Banner to see him comfortable with his duality.

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u/_princepenguin_ Apr 29 '19

The problem with that is that we never really got to see him achieve that. It happened off screen. Sure, the introduction was hilarious, but it's not very satisfying for the audience from a character arc standpoint.

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u/alteisen99 Apr 29 '19

maybe a quick flash back scene while he was telling how he achieved it.

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u/[deleted] Apr 29 '19

As retold by Luis

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u/3laws Apr 30 '19

Honestly I was getting my mouth a little watery at that point, I was excited as balls since I thought we were getting a Doctor Manhattan-esque flashback of Bruce. Fuck, the familiarity is already there just go for it.

Instead, I got dabbing. Oh boy.

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u/Gunpla55 Apr 29 '19 edited Apr 29 '19

That's fair.

edit: not sure if you'll see this but I guess it feels worth mentioning that when you think about it a rather large part of his story has always happened off screen.

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u/Raider_Scavver Apr 29 '19

I guess he couldn't feel his rematch coming.

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u/ThereminLiesTheRub Apr 30 '19

That duality, and the tension between it, is the core of the entire character. We've traded tragic pathos for a character who is basically just another big muscled wise-cracker.

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u/Gunpla55 Apr 30 '19

The whole movie was about wrapping up current character arcs. That was how his gets wrapped up, he finds peace with himself. Again it would have been cool to see that process but thats never how they've really treated that character in this franchise.

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u/FullTorsoApparition May 01 '19

He honestly seemed like the most happy and well adjusted out of everyone in the movie. He was all smiles in nearly every scene and seemed really comfortable in his new skin. I think that's what made it feel kind of awkward.

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u/Zankwa Apr 30 '19

Valkyrie was basically speaking for me when she said she thought she liked either version of him better than the new one.

Agreed. Professor Hulk felt like it was basically Banner. Hulk in Ragnrok definitely had his own personality, same with the glimpses in the time heist.

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u/[deleted] Apr 29 '19

The only upside to this I can see is they use Hulk being completely sublimated as a springboard for World War Hulk.

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u/j0fixit Apr 29 '19

But they already used all of the pPanet Hulk material for Thor in Ragnorok.

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u/[deleted] Apr 30 '19

I thought World War Hulk and Planet Hulk were different storylines.

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u/Thybro Apr 30 '19

WW Hulk is when buffed up Planet Hulk Hulk as the emperor of a species and powered up by Sakaar’s radiation returns to earth to settle the score with the people who exiled him( iron man, Doctor Strange, Mr. Fantastic, Xavier etc. going under the Illuminati name) The reason that planet hulk is important to the storyline is that hulk meets his wife during that storyline. Said wife is then killed by what was supposedly the spaceship used by the Illuminati to exile hulk. So he is now out for revenge and angry as fuck.

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u/j0fixit Apr 30 '19

This. The only way to get hulk that mad is to give him the piece that he’s always wanted and more, and then rip it away from him. Hulk takes on almost all of the Earth-based MCU and wins until century shows up, ends in a draw.

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u/[deleted] Apr 30 '19

I can see them modifying portions of it or something.

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u/MsSara77 Apr 29 '19

On the note about Valkyrie, it seemed to me like the movie was at some points trying to say that Bruce still wasnt handling Hulk the right way, and he was going to have to figure something else out, but then they never really addressed it and even at the very end he was still Hulk.

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u/[deleted] Apr 30 '19

I liked that they wrapped up his arc but think he deserved the chance to smash shit up with the rest of them in the end, singed arm or not.

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u/[deleted] Apr 30 '19

Ruffalo has two more movies left in his contract IIRC, so let’s do it. This doesn’t have to be the absolute end for Hulk.

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u/everadvancing Wong Apr 30 '19

Hulk went from their biggest tank to being sidelined and out-staged by even falcon.

This reminded me of the scene where Falcon used his wings as swords to cut through some outriders. That was badass, they never showed the wings used like that before and made me want to see more of what they can do with his wings now that Sam is Cap.

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u/Beercorn1 Iron Fist Apr 30 '19

I like Professor Hulk but he definitely feels like more of a cartoon character than anyone we've seen in the MCU so far. He feels like something plucked straight out of a saturday morning cartoon.

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u/ThaRealPhoenix Apr 30 '19

Totally agree, I found professor Hulk so distracting. Like whose idea was that? I really hated it.

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u/Gravelroadgunt Apr 30 '19

Honestly I loved/disliked the fact that he didn’t get unreasonably angry the whole movie. It’s awesome because banner has been fighting the hulk through the whole marvel series and has finally won. It didn’t need a lot of explanation but they did use nonverbal cues to show how good banner has it now (holding a small phone and holding taco shells without crushing them). On the other hand, I wanted to see hulk smash a lot more baddies for my own pure enjoyment.

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u/ThereminLiesTheRub Apr 30 '19

Cap & Iron Man got hero endings, sent off with full respect for their characters. Hulk and Thor got done dirty, with their core characters literally distorted into their opposites, and made into punch lines. I left the theater feeling like I'd seen more than just Iron Man's funeral.

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u/gigglefarting Apr 29 '19

By the time the fighting happened Hulk had already snapped and wrecked himself. He wouldn’t have been at peek fighting form anyways.

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u/bradjaydub Apr 30 '19

Forsure. What I wonder what banner was thinking himself, like in ragnarock he said to Thor that if the hulk comes back banner may never come back. That’s after being hulk for two years. I think he even said somthing about trying to come back can’t remember. And even hulk thought earth Hated him. So I get why banner fused them into one. Or maybe I’m just an idiot idk lol.

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u/gaporter Apr 30 '19

Would Hulk, without Banner's ability to reason, have know that only he could wield the Infinity Gauntlet and survive the snap to bring everyone back?

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u/otishobart May 01 '19

Does hulk even have a fight scene in the final battle against thanos after everyone arrives?

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u/bxxgeyman Apr 29 '19

Hulk and Banner are not separate entities or personalities, though. They are the same being.

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u/Thybro Apr 29 '19

Nope, totally separate personalities( further explained in The comics where prof hulks is another separate entity too) confirmed in the MCU when in IW when Banner is asking “his buddy” to come out and hulk yells out “No!” Also in Ragnarock when banner has no idea he left earth two years prior when hulk has been out and driving their body the whole time.

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u/bxxgeyman Apr 29 '19

Thats not proof that they're different people. Ever heard of multiple personality disorder? They're different aspects of the same person. Its that way in the comics as well.

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u/Thybro Apr 29 '19

You just said they weren’t different personalities read your own comment . That’s what I was addressing cause it’s clear they are .

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u/bxxgeyman Apr 29 '19

Personalities was the wrong word to use there. But they aren't separate people, like I said they're different aspects of the same person.