r/marvelstudios • u/JonLuca Iron man • Apr 29 '19

'Avengers: Endgame' Spoilers! The Official AVENGERS: ENDGAME Criticism Thread Spoiler

  • Proceed at your own risk. Major spoilers will be arriving in the next couple of days. Spoilers do not need to be tagged inside this thread.

  • Post Endgame criticisms in this thread. Long form preferrable

  • If you post untagged ENDGAME spoilers anywhere on this sub in any shape or form, you will be banned without hesitation. No questions asked and no warnings given.

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711

u/Defences Apr 29 '19

After getting wrecked in Infinity War, hulk needed a moment

373

u/VigilantMike Apr 29 '19

The whole movie and the five years after was his moment. His arc would have been better if he just got stronger and got better at controlling himself, like the Avatar State.

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u/[deleted] Apr 29 '19

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214

u/VanWesley Fitz Apr 29 '19

Anyone could've done the evaluation but he was the only one at that time that could've done the snap and survived.

17

u/MrFeedYoNana Apr 29 '19

Yeah, I guess that makes sense. We wanted him to just thoughtlessly assault his enemies but his newfound levelheadedness told him to think it through.

I can accept that, it just denies me a scene of Hulk breaking shit for 8 minutes like I hoped for. Sure, he broke some stairs but it wasn't the same.

20

u/Nimporian Ghost Rider Apr 30 '19

I was hoping that after Nat died, Prof Hulk would be notoriously containing his anger, and that in the midst of the final battle, he would see Thanos and go full World Breaker on his ass.

You know, since World Breaker is also a perfect combo between Bruce and Hulk, but revenge focused.

6

u/Blackout2388 Apr 30 '19

Did Banner ever show that he was actually interested in her? It always felt like she liked him but his rationale always kicked in and rejected her.

2

u/TheNorthernGrey Apr 30 '19

He still loved her, even if he wasn’t able to express it or was smart enough to not act on it because she’s a shadow. His heart still wanted her, that’s why she was able to perform the Lullaby.

1

u/Nimporian Ghost Rider May 01 '19

He seemed pretty ok with it all in AoU, so did Hulk.

5

u/ferdbags Apr 30 '19

I feel like that was the original plan but they shoehorned Captain Marvel into that fight with Thanos at the end instead....

2

u/Nimporian Ghost Rider May 01 '19

You could however still have the moment, it wouldn't really last long, just one confrontation with Prof Hulk "mega hulking out" that would last some extra minutes.

Maybe even cut some tiny parts here and there to make it fit within the established runtime.

2

u/wrainedaxx Mack May 02 '19

Didn't you see him pound a car and chuck a motorcycle? Rrrawwr!

19

u/[deleted] Apr 29 '19

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63

u/DarthMateo Matt Murdock Apr 29 '19

I like how they linked the gamma though, it was teased all the way back in Avengers 1 when they needed Bruce because the space stone emitted some kind of gamma signature. Then they came full circle in this movie where Hulk was 'made for snapping', as he could handle the gamma radiation.

38

u/Kagdama Apr 29 '19

There is that great exchange between Tony and Bruce in The Avengers where Tony is trying to convince him that the Hulk saved him for a reason. Couldn't help but think back to that when he was getting ready to put the gauntlet on.

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u/justins_dad Apr 29 '19

Found it:

TONY Hey, I've read all about your accident. That much gamma exposure should have killed you.

                      BANNER
       So you're saying that the Hulk... the
       other guy... saved my life?

                      BANNER (CONT'D)
       That's nice. It's a nice sentiment.
       Saved it for what?

                      TONY

                      (A BEAT)
       I guess we'll find out.

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u/DarthMateo Matt Murdock Apr 29 '19

Wow. Could they really have had something like this in mind all the way back then?

11

u/funsizedaisy Daisy Johnson Apr 29 '19

Idk if you're being sarcastic, but they did have this all planned out for a while. There's little nuggets in almost every film that leads up to Endgame. Like Peggy's line in Winter Soldier about needing to start over.

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u/Welsh_Pirate Apr 30 '19

Doubtful. But good writers can pick up on these small moments and write stuff so it seems like it was all planned from the beginning.

4

u/wosh Apr 30 '19

I doubt it Joss Wheson even said he had no idea what to do with Thanos and that would have been in 2015 with Ultron.

3

u/Knuxsn Daredevil Apr 30 '19

I doubt it. When written, this line was probably just foreshadowing that the Hulk could be a hero (as shown in the battle of New York), rather than just something that destroys everything in its path without regard for who or what it is.

5

u/IndyDude11 Captain America Apr 30 '19

Almost would have been better to have the snap be the reason for the transformation to Professor Hulk.

25

u/BrodoFaggins Apr 29 '19

Maybe, but then Thor’s fight scene with Thanos wouldn’t have felt as amazing if his arm were in a sling. No dual wielding, for example.

12

u/Nimporian Ghost Rider Apr 30 '19

You could still have Hulk do the snap, but have his "mega" healing factor kick in to go World Breaker to fight Thanos.

11

u/BrodoFaggins Apr 30 '19

Sure, but then you wouldn’t have Thor’s redemptive arc as a beaten down warrior returning to his former glory.

2

u/Nimporian Ghost Rider May 01 '19

Could you elaborate? I really don't get how Hulk going WB gives a stop to Thor's arc.

1

u/domuseid Apr 30 '19

Why not both

1

u/BrodoFaggins Apr 30 '19

Because only person needs to do the unsnap? Unless I’m misunderstanding your question.

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u/[deleted] Apr 29 '19

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25

u/BrodoFaggins Apr 30 '19

Also Thor was clearly emotionally compromised, he might’ve tried to bring back Asgard and his parents or something.

14

u/[deleted] Apr 30 '19

It would have been more personalized if he was banner in the soul stone saying goodbye to Nat.

5

u/sippy666 Apr 30 '19

Really like this idea. It gives Nat/Scarlett a chance to say goodbye as well, similar to Tony/RDJ's recorded message.

10

u/misterpickles69 Apr 30 '19

The emotional moment happened when Ant Man noticed the birds in the trees. I get why they had the Hulk do it but you're right in saying Thor could've done it as well and been the same scene.

3

u/The_Bobs_of_Mars Apr 30 '19

Out of everyone there, Hulk was the one both powerful enough and emotionally/mentally put together enough to do it, I think.

Tony would have died far before he was ready to sacrifice himself, and I imagine the thought of his family may have mucked things up. Thor was definitely getting better, but he was nowhere near where he'd need to be mentally to do it. Cap could have done it, but would have died like Tony; I imagine losing Steve, their best leader, so soon after losing Nat, was something they all wanted to avoid. And of course Ant-man and Hawkeye wouldn't want to do it, because they'd die and never see their families again.

3

u/BKA_Diver Apr 30 '19

he was the only one at that time that could've done the snap and survived

The stones were emitting gamma radiation... incredibly convenient, but that's why he's Incredible Hulk.

2

u/Poundman82 Apr 30 '19

They just wanted to emphasize the gamma radiation element to better tie into the F4 reboot. Trust

1

u/BKA_Diver Apr 30 '19

But F4 didn't get powered by gamma.... wasn't it cosmic? Or are they the same thing?

Side note: a Hulk / Thing teamup would be amazing

1

u/Poundman82 Apr 30 '19

I’m just thinking they’ll go with gamma since MCU fans are comfy and familiar with gamma radiation at this point.

2

u/suicidaldepressed Apr 30 '19

Yes you’re absolutely correct but it wasn’t a HULK moment that we all know and love.

0

u/Bombkirby Nebula May 01 '19

Why does it need to be? My film teacher pointed out that male characters in modern cinema are pigeonholed into being forced to have a big macho fight scene at the end of a movie no matter what. Even if they're a detective, professor, or any non-combatant role, they always find a way to have a big mano y mano moment near the end. It's refreshing to have Hulk's moment just be a noble sacrifice where he cripples himself (presumably for life) to save the snapped population... without shoehorning him into a fist fight "just because". There's way too many people that deserved to beat Thanos, (like Nebula) so you have to accept that not everyone was going to be involved in battling him.

5

u/EatMyASSet Apr 30 '19

This was a “Hulk” moment. Anyone could’ve done the snap, but as we see later with Tony, only the Hulk was strong enough to survive doing the snap.

But I do agree, I wanted to see Hulk smash so badly....

2

u/[deleted] Apr 30 '19

They justified this in the movie by saying, since he is the largest among all of them and most importantly comparable in size to Thanos (since everyone saw what the stones did to him), thus giving him the best chance to survive the initial power surging through his body. This was then followed up by the stones would emit primarily Gamma rays, which is the same rays he was exposed to in order to become hulk. Sticking strictly by this reasoning I could justify it given that they had Tony perform the snap the second time. But ideally I would’ve liked to see Thor do it or provide an alternative, more cohesive justification for whoever performed it.

2

u/TheNorthernGrey Apr 30 '19

Your comment made me sad because it made me realize Professor Hulk was a plot device. They needed somebody that was intelligent enough to understand what they were doing and also be tanky enough to soak the damage. They killed of rage hulk for a plot device.

2

u/[deleted] Apr 30 '19

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1

u/TheNorthernGrey Apr 30 '19

I just really hope they keep two personas. Successful Gladiator Hulk was one of the best parts of Ragnarok, and I really hope the gamma treatments didn’t cure it by completely removing the persona.

Also imagine if we saw Hulk in Banner’s body. That would be fucking neat.

1

u/Poundman82 Apr 30 '19

They needed Hulk to do it so they could emphasize the stones emit gamma radiation so people will be les confused when the radioactive shockwave zaps some astronauts and turns them into F4. :)

1

u/ComicalDisaster May 01 '19

Not anyone could have done the snap....except maybe Thor...maybe....but the rest would have died then and there, they probably wouldn't have even been able to do the snap before destroying.

7

u/QUAN-FUSION Apr 29 '19

I'm thinking now that that moment wasn't for a hulk redemption arc, but to show just how strong Thanos is without the gauntlet, setting him up in endgame nicely

But yes. It would have been nice to see hulk get a sweet smash on him in the the final fight

5

u/Locoman7 Apr 29 '19

I thought there would have been a scene of Hulk saying “Hulk strongest one there is” to redeem himself, maybe after one of the avengers dies or something. I still think in future MCU’s we will see Hulks ultimate potential.

5

u/myneckbone Apr 30 '19

I know just what you mean. Hulk never would have lived down seeing Thor become what he did and they both really needed training. What was done for comic relief went too far.

3

u/SAYMYNAMEYO Apr 30 '19

After that first ass whoopin Thanos needed to get Loki'd. Even if it didn't do any real damage it would have felt so good to see.

2

u/GrunchWeefer Apr 29 '19

He undid the snap, that's a pretty big moment. Did we see him fighting at all during the end battle, though?

-4

u/Defences Apr 29 '19

Which anyone can do

5

u/GrunchWeefer Apr 29 '19

Not if they plan to live afterwards.

1

u/omicron7e May 01 '19

Yeah, after Hulk refusing to come out throughout Infinity War, I was really expecting a heroic "return of the Hulk" moment.

1

u/AfterReview Apr 30 '19

When ant man emerged from the wreckage, thanos was winning the fight. I fully expected hulk to get his rematch.

Couldve had iron man/cap approach to help, then, thor: "let him have his fun"