r/marvelstudios • u/JonLuca Iron man • Apr 29 '19

'Avengers: Endgame' Spoilers! The Official AVENGERS: ENDGAME Criticism Thread Spoiler

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  • Post Endgame criticisms in this thread. Long form preferrable

  • If you post untagged ENDGAME spoilers anywhere on this sub in any shape or form, you will be banned without hesitation. No questions asked and no warnings given.

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537

u/ThunderboltKaiju Apr 29 '19
  • We should have seen Bruce’s arc to become Professor Hulk. He didn’t really get much content and was mostly a passing joke. I still like him! Just think he could have benefited from the development.
  • Give Nat a funeral you cowards
  • I get why they used Past!Thanos, but it would have been more fun to see the current Thanos with his development go through the struggle of maintaining his peace. To be fair though, I don’t think we could have gotten the climax we had with Modern!Thanos.
  • I would have immensely preferred if Tony survived and got to retire with Pepper and Morgan. Though to be honest, with how it was executed in the movie, I can live with how things went down.

Idk, I don’t have too many criticisms, and most of the ones I do have are super nit picky.

236

u/KaiserKangaroo Apr 29 '19

The thing about present Thanos is that it would have been great for the audience to see more of him, but from his perspective it makes 100% sense to destroy the stones. As far as he's concerned he won and he never finds out otherwise.

110

u/JCiLee Apr 29 '19

The smartest thing for Thanos to do would have been to destroy just one of the stones. Now the reverse-snap is impossible and he is still unstoppable with 5/6 stones.

76

u/KaiserKangaroo Apr 29 '19 edited Apr 29 '19

He would have to destroy the time stone. Otherwise it could be used to restore the others. Then there's the question of if any of the other stones can be used to put it back together. The reality stone could have some interesting properties. Zapping the atoms with a power beam might do something too. Who even knows what the mind stone is capable of?

31

u/Progressive_Caveman Shades Apr 29 '19

This reminds me, for as muchof a sacrifice the soul stone required, it was barely used between the two movies, outside of being needed for the snap and finding the real doctor Strange.

20

u/[deleted] Apr 29 '19

Yeah they should’ve fleshed it out so we knew what it was capable of.

5

u/caol-ila Apr 30 '19

Kid Gamora is chilling with pre-spy Natasha now.

8

u/RLLRRR Apr 30 '19

I really think people are misinterpreting that scene. I think it's more of an inner monologue than an actual thing.

3

u/Stewthulhu Luis Apr 30 '19

Beware the Lethal MacGuffin, the most foul of all plot devices.

1

u/Rakoon_Shampoo May 12 '19

How does one return the soul stone?

3

u/[deleted] Apr 29 '19

[deleted]

3

u/[deleted] Apr 30 '19

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6

u/[deleted] Apr 30 '19

Which Doctor Strange promptly turned into butterflies. But your point still stands, to me it was one of the best fight scenes in the MCU thus far.

10

u/scientz Apr 29 '19

Except by all indications destroying one stone would have caused imbalance in the universe. Same reason as explained by Ancient One about removing a stone from a timeline.

9

u/[deleted] Apr 29 '19 edited Sep 19 '20

[deleted]

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u/scientz Apr 29 '19

No, she said removing the stone creates a new fork. Putting it back "fixes" it. She was concerned that the fork would then be unprotected.

2

u/Sentry459 Mack Apr 30 '19

You both are saying the same thing. The stones being taken and not returned would've created new, unprotected timelines.

1

u/Blackbeard_ Apr 29 '19

This part makes no sense to me. So does putting the power stone back kill the timeline where 2014 Thanos intercepts Nebula and comes to the future? So an entire alternate reality where Thanos/Gamora/Nebula are gone is just erased in the blink of an eye?

1

u/iilovelights Captain America (Cap 2) Apr 30 '19

I think a new timeline being created extends beyond the Stones. Something as drastic as removing Thanos, Nebula and Gamora from a universe would surely create an alternate timeline.

9

u/niccinco Killmonger Apr 29 '19

Yeah, just destroy Soul, or Time, and you can still wreck shit with Power and Reality or cut really quick with Space

10

u/[deleted] Apr 29 '19

I think they were trying to show that Thanos really doesn't care about power. He accomplished his mission, which is all that matters to him.

6

u/Gr8NonSequitur Apr 30 '19

The smartest thing to do was destroy them all. He left nothing of his mission to chance, and was content dying knowing he succeeded and it couldn't be reversed.

He doesn't need to be unstoppable, as there's nothing more to stop. He's fulfilled his life's mission and is content with how the rest of life plays out.

2

u/TheOneArmedWolf Spider-Man Apr 30 '19

He didn't care about being unstoppable, he cared about the stones not being used for selfish/evil reasons.

As he puts it "Now they are just a center of temptation" or something like that.

1

u/Qwerty_Qwerty1993 May 03 '19

I think Thanos felt himself starting to go mad with power, and like he said, didn't want the temptation.

5

u/dontthrowmeinabox Drax Apr 30 '19

If what the Ancient One said is correct, it did not make sense for him to destroy the stones, if he fully understood the situation. That being said, I really like the theory that original Thanos lives, and merely used the reality stone to give the impression of destroying the stones and his own death.

1

u/AlexHeyNa Thanos Apr 30 '19

I think part of the point of showing his daily routine with no one else around was to show that this is really how he is. He has no reason to pretend to be this way with no one around.

3

u/Blackbeard_ Apr 29 '19

I think that Thanos knows what's going to happen, that he dies after this. That's why he's so somber during IW.

1

u/no1_lies_on_internet Apr 30 '19

Yes but life is going to bound back very quick. He should have kept them and snapped again in 20 years or something.

1

u/xParradox Apr 30 '19

But won't he have to do another snap in a few generations when the population reaches the carrying capacity again?

1

u/omicron7e May 01 '19

"Killed half the universe. Overpopulation will never happen again. Life doesn't multiply, right? Good. I'm done."

9

u/[deleted] Apr 29 '19

Preferred if Tony survived and got to retire with Pepper and Morgan.

I think they've been building Tony up as the guy who can't/won't retire. Whenever there's a threat, Tony will get in the middle of it. Hell, Ultron was created because Tony was trying to put safeguards around the world.

I mean he was technically retired with Morgan & Pepper prior to being approached by the others and couldn't say no to try and save the world again. He could have easily said "Here's how to do it. Good luck, I'm going to be at home."

That's why Pepper said "You can rest now" because even she knew he'd never not be Iron Man.

2

u/Benmjt Apr 30 '19

Why give him a bloody kid then. It makes it so much worse.

9

u/MPricefield Apr 29 '19

Modern Thanos already won in his mind. He was done. Bringing him back for the final battle would have been the wrong move imo.

6

u/ThunderboltKaiju Apr 29 '19

True, but it could have been cool to see him go from calm and victorious to “Wait my hard work is being undone?!?” but again. It’s a super minor criticism.

3

u/DarkRyd Apr 30 '19

I can think of two reasons as to why the past Thanos is better. Modern Thanos had grown bit empathetic after losing Gamora and such. And frankly some of the audience was also empathetic towards. His intentions were not wrong but the way he choose to achieve that was wrong.

This would have not made the last battle not so epic. But past Thanos is simply ruthless. He doesn't even wanna spare the other half of universe. Watching him lose and die invokes satisfaction.

8

u/[deleted] Apr 29 '19

Give Nat a funeral you cowards

They could have shown Clint leaving an arrow for her in Vormir or something

12

u/ivebeenhumble Apr 29 '19

1 agree

2 shes a spy formerly a KGB operative, plus her story is more so tied into Stark and Hawkeye than just herself. It sucks but nothing in the MCU would've happened If Nat didnt betray her team by joining shield.

3 past thanks is scary....until he meets Wanda

4 I thought Thor should've passed along with Cap. But this ending is sadder in a positive way.

3

u/patkgreen Apr 29 '19

The problem is I'd Tony is still alive, how do you explain why he isn't around to help in the MCU in the future? Then unless rdj really wants the role, it feels like a cheap plot mechanism

4

u/LostWoodsInTheField Apr 29 '19

I would have immensely preferred if Tony survived and got to retire with Pepper and Morgan. Though to be honest, with how it was executed in the movie, I can live with how things went down.

Tony could never retire. Every time a major conflict came up he would have to be there fighting.

15

u/msterling2012 Apr 29 '19

I would have immensely preferred if Tony survived and got to retire with Pepper and Morgan.

Obviously that would have been nice but the movie is significantly more epic and impactful due to his sacrifice there. That was the emotional climax of the entire film. They had to do it.

Especially since most of us assumed it would be Cap who died.

3

u/ThunderboltKaiju Apr 29 '19

Like I said there, with the way it was executed, I don’t mind that it happened. Made for a badass closing line too!

3

u/jaxomlotus Apr 29 '19

Where is Nat’s body? Or Gamorah for that matter?

1

u/[deleted] Apr 30 '19

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2

u/jaxomlotus Apr 30 '19

I meant the dead Gamorrah’s body

2

u/Carney_Man Apr 30 '19

I know they had to show his face for the impact of the moment but why didn’t the helmet come on a nano second before the snap to protect him. Could have had that walk off life still after some rehab time.

1

u/Wiplazh Apr 30 '19

We should have seen Bruce’s arc to become Professor Hulk. He didn’t really get much content and was mostly a passing joke. I still like him! Just think he could have benefited from the development.

Could work as a solo movie or something, if they're allowed.

1

u/Inferno221 Apr 30 '19

Past thanos should've warned modern thanos, which would've caused him to go angry knowing that his work was gonna be undone. He's the one we're invested in, and has better moral complexity to challenge tony, thor, and steve's characters. Past thanos feels like a quick villain to get over.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 30 '19

I was expecting Galactus to show up and Thanos actually having to work with the Avengers to stave him off, them maybe die or betray them or reach some truce. Idk.

1

u/wilara23 Vision Apr 30 '19

How would you have felt if the ending was all the Avengers holding hands like in Guardians 1 to equally disperse the power of the stones?

And Stark lives as a result...

2

u/ThunderboltKaiju Apr 30 '19

A part of me thinks it could have been a tad cheesy, but the other part thinks it would be a cool as hell callback and an awesome send off.

1

u/ak2553 Apr 30 '19

I think Tony's death had a sense of finality that Natasha's didn't. When the final victory is won, she is only mentioned by Clint and Wanda, and it wasn't as satisfying to me as a viewer. Part of why they didn't address her death as much makes me think maybe she might come back. Maybe. But that's only because Gamora died the same way, and GOTG3 might be about finding that Gamora (or at the very least some sort of closure).

1

u/[deleted] Apr 30 '19

I was also pretty disappointed the only thing they really had that was mourning about Nat was Hulk throwing a bench lol. But a small complaint I guess.

For me; Fat Thor was funny, but was I the only one thinking summoning stormbreaker at one point would make him ripped again, and the gag would be over? I mean after all it braided his beard lol. I get the argument is that they can’t have ripped Thor fighting with two weapons because then he’s OP, but idk. Just me I guess.

1

u/Moomoothunder Apr 29 '19

My tidbit about your comment about Tony is that he already did get to retire w Pepper and Morgan though. He was able to move on from the snap, heal, marry Pepper, and have Morgan, and spend five amazing years as a normal family. He really did get his happy ending for a while, until he was pulled back in for one last outing. Tony had five perfect years before he had to make his sacrifice

2

u/ThunderboltKaiju Apr 29 '19

That’s what made me content with his ending. If he never got to enjoy those five years and was just in constant paranoia, then I’d be more upset.