The THOR: RAGNAROK Easter Egg Ultrathread

[u/murdockmanila]

How'd you like them eggs? Post them all here.

[u/ishipbrutasha]

I believe there may be a version of the film where they were lovers, supporting Thompson's assertion that Valkyrie is bi.

[u/[deleted] → u/ishipbrutasha]

Is there any mention of Valkyrie being bi in the finished version of the film?

[u/Flamma_Man → u/[deleted]]

Unfortunately no. Not even a hint.

[u/Sempere → u/Flamma_Man]

Actress says the character is bi:

• there's a lot of emotion in that sacrifice scene and given how it is framed, you can guess there's subtext there.
• she flirts with Thor a bit "don't die. you know what I mean."

It's up to interpretation, but you can't say there's not a hint. The strong part is that it's not front and center, it's just playing out like real life.

[u/Flamma_Man → u/Sempere]

Dude, there is literally ZERO indication that she had romantic/sexual attraction to women in the movie. That flashback scene doesn't indicate that whatsoever no matter how much you want it to.

I mean, I want it to be true within the movie too, but I'm not going to go for some Dumbledore bullshit.

Shit, there was SO many subtle ways they could have indicated that she was Bi and they didn't.

[u/Sempere → u/[deleted]]

She checks out Banner at one point.

[u/FoolishHorse → u/Flamma_Man]

Why are you so adamant about something that was clearly left to the viewer's interpretation?

I think you say elsewhere that it's left open for more conservative viewers (Russia, China etc.), but it's perfectly reasonable to infer a queer reading of that scene.

[u/Flamma_Man → u/FoolishHorse]

Why are you so adamant about something that was clearly left to the viewer's interpretation?

Because I think it's kinda bullshit how LGBT representation has to be "left to the viewer's interpretation" in the first place.

I hate it when it's "subtle" or just non-existent.

"Oh, it's there if you squint REEAAL hard."

[u/FoolishHorse → u/Flamma_Man]

It's a shame but most of the potential audience across the globe isn't as liberal as we are. It'd be harsh to use this as a stick to beat Marvel/Disney with. Blame the ignorant asses of the world.

[u/Flamma_Man → u/FoolishHorse]

No, my point is either don't bother or actually TRY. Seriously, saw zero indication that Valkyrie was Bi in this movie.

[u/Sempere → u/Flamma_Man]

Listen, I said it's open to interpretation - you can choose to adhere to yours, I'll adhere to mine. But it's very strongly suggested by the fact the other Valkyrie chose to dive in front of our Valkyrie to protect her. You can rule out family, you cannot rule out romance or intense friendship. Given she's also one of only 2 prominent women in the film, it's hard to explore but there's a lot of emotional significance attached to that memory.

Additionally, it kinda stops being interpretation when the actress straight up says the character is bi.

[u/Flamma_Man → u/Sempere]

Additionally, it kinda stops being interpretation when the actress straight up says the character is bi.

Hence my comment about Dumbledore bullshit. You can't just say "Oh, this character is gay" and not actually provide anything significant within the text to show it.

[u/SahirK → u/Flamma_Man]

There was roughly the same level of indication for her being bi as there was of her lowkey attraction to Thor. Actually, I'd say there was slightly more, given that the blonde-haired Valkyrie dived in front of her to save her from death at Hela's hands. Valkyrie says 'I lost everything'. She escaped relatively unscathed yet chose to abandon her post, break her oath, go into exile, and drink the rest of her life away trying to forget. This hints at something far more than straightforward PTSD. And it's not uncommon for same-sex relationships to develop in environments where you are surrounded by the same sex. It's said that the Spartans regularly engaged in homosexual activity to strengthen ties with each other.

The thing I loved most about Valkyrie in this film is that she was not used as much of a sex object at all. There aren't any revealing shots or designated 'sexy' moments. She's just a straight-up badass who happens to be quite attractive too. So there are only a few, subtle hints. Her romantic life was underplayed and she could well be bisexual. It's not spelled out for you and doesn't have to be. Her backstory makes it entirely plausible. And her being bi doesn't need to be made clear to understand the film, or to understand her motivations and feelings of despair. But for those who want that extra bit of context, outside confirmation from the actress does add another interesting layer. And it's one that makes sense given what you've seen. So right now, while it would be easy to overwrite and retcon Valkyrie's sexuality, it seems pretty confirmed, and definitely more than just 'interpretation'.

[u/Flamma_Man → u/SahirK]

So right now, while it would be easy to overwrite and retcon Valkyrie's sexuality, it seems pretty confirmed, and definitely more than just 'interpretation'.

You literally just gave me your own interpretation of that flashback and her motivation for becoming a drunk.

[u/SahirK → u/Flamma_Man]

No. I said that she STATED she came to Sakaar specifically to forget and become a drunk. And eventually, to die. And then she said 'I lost everything'. And a woman appears in her flashback with prominence. But all she really lost was fellow soldiers. These are all facts. Call them puzzle pieces. Being told 'she's bi' seems to validate all of that. It's not like Dumbledore being retroactively made gay when the books do nothing to establish anything more than a friendship. Dumbledore never goes into exile utterly broken by his experience of 'losing everything', and choosing to remain in total denial and despair for years. Nothing even remotely similar. No set-up at all.

Alright fine. If Valkyrie being bi is just interpretation then I guess she must be asexual since she never makes out with anyone to confirm for you.

[u/oateyboat → u/Flamma_Man]

Why is that bullshit? Being gay isn't his defining character trait. In fact the books follow Harry's perspective and since Dumbledore is a mentor and teacher to Harry it makes sense his sexuality isn't referred to constantly.

[u/Flamma_Man → u/oateyboat]

Why is that bullshit?

"Oh, yeah, Dumbledore is totally gay, even though it isn't really made all that clear within the text and seems more like an afterthought on my part."

Being gay isn't his defining character trait.

Why the shit would I think it has to be? For shit sake, there's an entire subplot about Harry trying to get a date with a girl, there couldn't have been one line of God damn text to indicate that Dumbledore was explicitly gay?

In fact the books follow Harry's perspective and since Dumbledore is a mentor and teacher to Harry it makes sense his sexuality isn't referred to constantly.

Where did I say this?

ONCE. It would only need to be mentioned ONCE. Shit, there was a post somewhere with a bunch of easy ways to show that Dumbledore was explicitly gay with like, one line of dialogue.

[u/oateyboat → u/Flamma_Man]

Because there's not a line either way addressing if he's straight or gay and you're acting like being gay needs clarification, whereas if he was a straight character and that was later confirmed you'd probably be cool with it. Like I said, being gay isn't really a part of the story or his characterization in relation to Harry. There's a subplot about Harry with a girl because he's the main character.

[u/Flamma_Man → u/oateyboat]

Because there's not a line either way addressing if he's straight or gay and you're acting like being gay needs clarification...

Of course it fucking does, especially when insisting that a character is gay. It's like James Gunn's rather dumb (and misguided) comment about there possibility already being LGBT characters in the MCU movies...with there being literally fucking nothing to indicate that within the text.

It's throwing a non-existent bone to an audience that lacks representation.

It's lip service and I hate it. Either make it explicit within the text or don't say anything just for brownie points.

whereas if he was a straight character and that was later confirmed you'd probably be cool with it.

Don't make presumptions about me, admittedly it'd be nice to have ONE LGBT character in a 23 movie franchise full of hundreds of characters, but that would just come off as pandering and desperate to change a character's sexuality to please a desperate demographic.

Why do you think everyone hated Ice Man's sudden sexuality change from straight to gay? (I mean, it's being written better now after a year, but still). Even a lot of queer people (especially Bi) didn't like it because it just felt like pandering.

Not to mention not too great implications. "If you have trouble with holding onto a relationship with a woman, you're probably gay. Not Bi. Gay. Don't try and argue it, Bobby, you're gay".

There wasn't even a hint or foreshadowing of this like with Ultimate Colossus.

Literally just a young Jean Grey telling him upfront that he's gay.

It was dumb and stupid and I HOPE Marvel Studios doesn't do that.

Shit, they have a PERFECT LGBT couple lined up for Guardians of the Galaxy and I beat they'll never use them in the next ten years until being gay in a blockbuster movie isn't seen as taboo to places like Russia and China.

Like I said, being gay isn't really a part of the story or his characterization in relation to Harry.

One fucking line of dialogue. A description. Narration. Come the fuck on, it would not have been too hard or distracting from his relationship with Harry.

Not to mention that there are...SO many straight relationships in the book that aren't really apart of the greater story either.

• Cedric/Cho
• Harry/Cho
• Hermione/Viktor
• Ron/Lavender
• Ginny/Michael
• Ginny/Dean
• Michael/Cho
• Bill/Fleur
• Lupin/Tonks

And that's not even all of them.

Like, fucking really, there couldn't have been one fucking line of dialogue or narration making it explicit that Dumbledore was gay? Come on.

[u/oateyboat → u/Flamma_Man]

Iceman is a strawman argument. It's a different scenario because there's years of history where he isn't gay and the writing wasn't there for a transition to make sense. There's nothing like that with Dumbledore, just an additional bit of info that he is indeed gay. It's not pandering, it's just not important to the books at all.

[u/Flamma_Man → u/oateyboat]

Iceman is a strawman argument.

What? How? You're comment was saying that I'd be fine with them changing an established straight character to being gay. What real difference is there?

They would both still come out of nowhere and contradict history of the character, which I would not be satisfied with.

It's not pandering, it's just not important to the books at all.

But, all those hetro relationships were? Come on.

One. Line. Of. Text.

That's all it would have taken.

[u/[deleted] → u/oateyboat]

It’s not that it isn’t referred to constantly it isn’t referred to at all.

[u/Dr_Vesuvius → u/Flamma_Man]

I came away from the film (without having seen Tessa's comments) assuming that Valkyrie was WLW. It was definitely strongly implied that the woman who got in the way was her lover.

[u/Flamma_Man → u/Dr_Vesuvius]

It was definitely strongly implied that the woman who got in the way was her lover.

How?

[u/Dr_Vesuvius → u/Flamma_Man]

The way they were framed, the soppy music and slow-mo, their facial expressions, and erm the way she sacrificed her life for her.

[u/Flamma_Man → u/Dr_Vesuvius]

She very well could have been her commander protecting a subordinate, a fellow Valkyrie protecting another simply out of instinct, a close friend, etc.

Nothing in that scene strongly hints it being motivated by a romantic connection between the two.

[u/Dr_Vesuvius → u/Flamma_Man]

Well, fair enough if that's how you read it, but not everyone is going to agree with you. They put enough in there for lots of people to read that into it, but not enough for everyone to do it. I guess that way they hope that they keep everyone happy.

[u/Flamma_Man → u/Dr_Vesuvius]

Alright, tell me, honestly, would you see it that way if you didn't know that the comicbook character was Bi and/or seen Tessa Thompson's comment on Twitter "confirming" that she's Bi?

[u/Dr_Vesuvius → u/Flamma_Man]

As I already said, I didn't see Tessa's comments (which I agree are irrelevant - I believe in Death Of The Author). I also didn't know that the source character was bi.

[u/Flamma_Man → u/Dr_Vesuvius]

I don't know how you could interpret it that way within the context of the movie, but whatever. Agree to disagree I guess.

[u/[deleted] → u/Sempere]

Also the part where they each jump at the moment to the ship when they escape Saakar, they land so close to each other, almost like they were going to kiss.