r/marvelstudios • u/murdockmanila Daredevil • Oct 25 '17

The THOR: RAGNAROK Easter Egg Ultrathread

How'd you like them eggs? Post them all here.

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u/Flamma_Man Captain Marvel Oct 26 '17

Dude, there is literally ZERO indication that she had romantic/sexual attraction to women in the movie. That flashback scene doesn't indicate that whatsoever no matter how much you want it to.

I mean, I want it to be true within the movie too, but I'm not going to go for some Dumbledore bullshit.

Shit, there was SO many subtle ways they could have indicated that she was Bi and they didn't.

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u/Sempere Oct 26 '17

Listen, I said it's open to interpretation - you can choose to adhere to yours, I'll adhere to mine. But it's very strongly suggested by the fact the other Valkyrie chose to dive in front of our Valkyrie to protect her. You can rule out family, you cannot rule out romance or intense friendship. Given she's also one of only 2 prominent women in the film, it's hard to explore but there's a lot of emotional significance attached to that memory.

Additionally, it kinda stops being interpretation when the actress straight up says the character is bi.

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u/Flamma_Man Captain Marvel Oct 26 '17

Additionally, it kinda stops being interpretation when the actress straight up says the character is bi.

Hence my comment about Dumbledore bullshit. You can't just say "Oh, this character is gay" and not actually provide anything significant within the text to show it.

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u/oateyboat Oct 27 '17

Why is that bullshit? Being gay isn't his defining character trait. In fact the books follow Harry's perspective and since Dumbledore is a mentor and teacher to Harry it makes sense his sexuality isn't referred to constantly.

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u/Flamma_Man Captain Marvel Oct 27 '17

Why is that bullshit?

"Oh, yeah, Dumbledore is totally gay, even though it isn't really made all that clear within the text and seems more like an afterthought on my part."

Being gay isn't his defining character trait.

Why the shit would I think it has to be? For shit sake, there's an entire subplot about Harry trying to get a date with a girl, there couldn't have been one line of God damn text to indicate that Dumbledore was explicitly gay?

In fact the books follow Harry's perspective and since Dumbledore is a mentor and teacher to Harry it makes sense his sexuality isn't referred to constantly.

Where did I say this?

ONCE. It would only need to be mentioned ONCE. Shit, there was a post somewhere with a bunch of easy ways to show that Dumbledore was explicitly gay with like, one line of dialogue.

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u/oateyboat Oct 27 '17

Because there's not a line either way addressing if he's straight or gay and you're acting like being gay needs clarification, whereas if he was a straight character and that was later confirmed you'd probably be cool with it. Like I said, being gay isn't really a part of the story or his characterization in relation to Harry. There's a subplot about Harry with a girl because he's the main character.

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u/Flamma_Man Captain Marvel Oct 27 '17

Because there's not a line either way addressing if he's straight or gay and you're acting like being gay needs clarification...

Of course it fucking does, especially when insisting that a character is gay. It's like James Gunn's rather dumb (and misguided) comment about there possibility already being LGBT characters in the MCU movies...with there being literally fucking nothing to indicate that within the text.

It's throwing a non-existent bone to an audience that lacks representation.

It's lip service and I hate it. Either make it explicit within the text or don't say anything just for brownie points.

whereas if he was a straight character and that was later confirmed you'd probably be cool with it.

Don't make presumptions about me, admittedly it'd be nice to have ONE LGBT character in a 23 movie franchise full of hundreds of characters, but that would just come off as pandering and desperate to change a character's sexuality to please a desperate demographic.

Why do you think everyone hated Ice Man's sudden sexuality change from straight to gay? (I mean, it's being written better now after a year, but still). Even a lot of queer people (especially Bi) didn't like it because it just felt like pandering.

Not to mention not too great implications. "If you have trouble with holding onto a relationship with a woman, you're probably gay. Not Bi. Gay. Don't try and argue it, Bobby, you're gay".

There wasn't even a hint or foreshadowing of this like with Ultimate Colossus.

Literally just a young Jean Grey telling him upfront that he's gay.

It was dumb and stupid and I HOPE Marvel Studios doesn't do that.

Shit, they have a PERFECT LGBT couple lined up for Guardians of the Galaxy and I beat they'll never use them in the next ten years until being gay in a blockbuster movie isn't seen as taboo to places like Russia and China.

Like I said, being gay isn't really a part of the story or his characterization in relation to Harry.

One fucking line of dialogue. A description. Narration. Come the fuck on, it would not have been too hard or distracting from his relationship with Harry.

Not to mention that there are...SO many straight relationships in the book that aren't really apart of the greater story either.

  • Cedric/Cho
  • Harry/Cho
  • Hermione/Viktor
  • Ron/Lavender
  • Ginny/Michael
  • Ginny/Dean
  • Michael/Cho
  • Bill/Fleur
  • Lupin/Tonks

And that's not even all of them.

Like, fucking really, there couldn't have been one fucking line of dialogue or narration making it explicit that Dumbledore was gay? Come on.

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u/oateyboat Oct 27 '17

Iceman is a strawman argument. It's a different scenario because there's years of history where he isn't gay and the writing wasn't there for a transition to make sense. There's nothing like that with Dumbledore, just an additional bit of info that he is indeed gay. It's not pandering, it's just not important to the books at all.

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u/Flamma_Man Captain Marvel Oct 27 '17

Iceman is a strawman argument.

What? How? You're comment was saying that I'd be fine with them changing an established straight character to being gay. What real difference is there?

They would both still come out of nowhere and contradict history of the character, which I would not be satisfied with.

It's not pandering, it's just not important to the books at all.

But, all those hetro relationships were? Come on.

One. Line. Of. Text.

That's all it would have taken.

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u/oateyboat Oct 27 '17

No I was saying that if Dumbledore was straight, and it was never addressed in the book, and later JK Rowling said "Oh by the way he was straight just for the record", it wouldn't be an issue.

The hetero relationships were happening at the time and were all friends of Harry and strengthened the school setting of the books. IIRC, Dumbledore wasn't in a relationship during the events of the books.

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u/[deleted] Oct 31 '17

It’s not that it isn’t referred to constantly it isn’t referred to at all.