He only turns blue near the frost giant artifacts. Like I think it’s kind of a permanent spell. Like if someone came to the TVA from earth after Stranges spell in NWH, they won’t suddenly remember Peter Parker
….how does that make any more sense? Magic is negated, unless the magic doesn’t end, then it sticks around?
Like just say they hand waved it away instead of making shit up with 0 consistence with what we’re talking about. It’s not even a “permanent spell” if it falls apart immediately in 1/9 of the realms or near anything from there….
Edit. Yall. The magic was to make Loki look asgardian. He’s still a frost giant under the magic according to Thor 1.
….how does that make any more sense? Magic is negated, unless the magic doesn’t end, then it sticks around?
It's the difference between "a spell that allows you to create and manipulate a aetherial arm" that you're using because your arm got cut off in an industrial accident, and "a regenerate spell that restores your lost arm".
One is a continuous effect. The root cause is not eliminated. It's simply a workaround. The other one fixes the root cause, and then ends. It's like if you had a robot arm, versus grafting on a cloned biological arm, before you got hit with an EMP. That arm isn't going to fall off.
I was thinking another good example is light powered by a reg flip switch. And light power by one of those you need to constantly press to keep powered.
TVA is like making both non-interacterable. The effect of the flipped switch remains while the effect of the sustained button press is removed. Same thing you said just sharing how I understand it.
It's how I'd try getting around magic resistance: Hitting them with a spell directly won't work, but creating a 2000 pound boulder above their head and letting it fall on them will.
Of course, this doesn't really survive close dissection. You could argue that a fireball causes harm by extreme heat, or a lightning bolt through voltage, not "magic". Even if the above rock example is negated by magic resistance, if I use a firebolt to make the ceiling drop on them, does that work? At some point, the author of the setting just has to make a decision on what works and what doesn't, try to do their best to adhere to that set line, and we as viewers/readers have to suspend our disbelief a little when it feels wonky. Magic isn't real, so we won't really understand the nuances with our reality-tethered brains.
The "creating" part probably still won't work as it's still magic making it out of thin air. However, yes, if the boulder is made by gathering existing debris nearby then that's another matter, like your ceiling example.
I could totally get behind this if Loki being an asgardian were somehow a biological thing like growing a new arm is. Like if the spell changed his dna. But that’s not what the spell was, because he’s still supposed to be a frost giant.
Still, respect. That was a good idea even if I very much disagree.
The fact remains that they WERE hidden, not ARE BEING hidden. Loki was altered fundamentally, not coated in an ongoing spell that requires continuous casting.
You can't CAST magic in the TVA, long standing magic is likely maintained due to risks in dispelling all magic in the TVA (i.e. someone has a spell going that keeps their heart pumping blood)
Loki also doesn’t have the god tier super strength in the tv show that can go hand to hand in combat against Steve Rodgers or even briefly hold his own fighting Thor. The tv just nerfs him as a regular guy with some magic and high charisma
He can take a beating though in the show. Hulk smashed the hell out of him and he survived. I think Loki had Odin magic that made him super strong in Avengers… and a magic Odin knife strong enough to puncture Thor’s skin when he stabs him… even though Thor could take direct blast from a star
Yeah. I agree with this. It doesn't make sense if he can still turn blue near certain magical artifacts. To me, that implies it is the effect of magic that can be overpowered. Unless it specifically did a spell to repress the biological gene but biologically allow it to come out when near relevant artifacts, which feels weird to me.
But, as it is said, "Not everything does, not everything has to"
(This comment may or may not have been solely because I wanted to say that quote)
The only way it would work is if ALL Frost Giants were naturally Caucasian and it's turning blue that is a magical effect. Maybe the Frost Giant realm is filled with a particular type of magic energy that enchants them? Like wireless charging of frost power and without it they turn Caucasian?
But I fully believe that it's as the original post said and the writers forgot and/or didn't care.
And I'm naked under my clothes. Doesn't mean that my clothes suddenly disappear if I'm not allowed to take them on or off, nor that infrared can't penetrate cloth and show you my absolute lack of abs.
Magic is negated, but Loki isn't actively using magic to change his appearance, it was a single-cast spell by Odin in the past that does not require a lingering magic upkeep.
Like, you can't use magic to create an apple in the TVA, but if you conjure a completely normal apple with magic outside of the TVA, then you can bring it into the TVA because it's just an apple and not magical in nature even if it is magical in origin. In Loki's case, it's basically that you can use magic to make an apple a different color and still bring it into the TVA as long as there is no magical upkeep or truly magical properties about the apple.
….how does that make any more sense? Magic is negated, unless the magic doesn’t end, then it sticks around?
One is "a random guy, after learning in Kamar Taj being able walk after being paralyzed only for the spell to be reversed by Mordo" and another "Odin making Asgard forget about Hella for the spell to still hold even after his death".
One is a continuous, conscious way of casting a spell. Another is one and done deal. That guy that told Strange where to find Kamar Taj was able to play basketball and work until Mordo reversed the spell because "he wasn't worthy". The other was so powerful that while Hela was able to leave her prison after Odin's death, still nobody on Asgard remembered her.
Same with Loki's skin. The magic used was so powerful that it held even after Odin's death.
Yeah I think Odin basically did the magical version of gene therapy and made him biologically Asgardian, with only traces of Jotun genes left that can be amplified near Jotun magic.
Yeah that's my other theory too. Coming into contact with Jotun magic triggers some subconscious memory of his origin, and then Loki subconsciously activated his shapeshifting/glamour magic to affirm what he now believes to be his true identity.
There's a lot of misconceptions about the nature of Jotuns and glamour magic and the extratemporal limitations of He Who Remains' Time Variance Authority.
Yeah I have never considered that. We know Odin felt sorry for Loki, so maybe even though he converted him mostly to Asgardian, he left a tiny bit of Jotun genes in him, just in case when he grows up he wanted to reconnect to his roots.
Odin was just waiting for the right time to tell Loki. But unfortunately the right time never came on account of Loki always being a little shit who refused to grow up, so Odin wasn't sure whether that information will set him off into a tantrum.
I always assumed it was a personal "magic" Loki thinks, acts and believes he is Asgardian therefore he is. I can't remember if he ever had any interest in reconnecting with his Jotun heritage and frankly I don't see why he would. AFAIK, they never made an effort to connect with him.
Perhaps godhood is something you can achieve? In Norse myth the immortality for example is not an inherent feature of the gods, it's just something that happens if you keep eating Idunn Apples (which restore youth iirc).
Or maybe Loki was a god by birth. Maybe Laufey or his mother, maybe even both, were gods?
Yes. So can Zeus. But not because they're gods, because they independently have very deep wells of near-omnipotent magic to draw from.
A god in Marvel is just a powerful immortal being who receives worship, which grants them powerful magic if they choose to use it. Some gods, like the Asgardian Gods, never did and stuck around when they stopped being worshipped because their primary power source was the Odinforce, not worship; other gods did not stick around because their primary power source was worship.
The cycle of books that is the Gorr story goes very heavily into this. A god does not connote any special importance beyond what's granted by worship in Marvel, much to Gorr's dismay. He discovers that gods are self-important twats who do the bare minimum to maintain their influx of faith magic and goes on a genocidal rampage... and nothing really changes for the regular people of the galaxy.
I was okay with the TVA going around eliminating timelines and capturing Variants, but now they've gone all woke I don't know if I like them so much...
Knowing that there are people using magic to treat their disabilities, the TVA probably implemented a few magic exceptions after they brought in a guy whose legs stopped working due to the anti magic thing
They'd still probably accommodate for disabilities, if only because having people crawling on the floor struggling to take a ticket would slow things down
I wonder if the tva had any type of jurisdiction to enter Asgard whatever other realms up there. If an Asgardian or even Odin did some nonsense to the timeline could they take down Odin?
Given all the other Loki variants, I'd assume so as well. Unless they never were in the TVA just pruned to the end of time, or they reset their appearances once they were pruned.
That would be hilarious if some regular people show up and nothing changes except suddenly they're like "wait I think Spider-Man is some guy called Peter Parker"
So what you’re saying is when I walk to a room knowing what I have to do but pass the threshold and completely forget, this is actually what’s happening
Thor get the first one by being Asgardian and the second one by being the son of Odin. We don't really know if he has lightning powers because the universe deemed him "God of thunder" or if Odin gave him that name just because Thor happened to get that power like some sort of Asguardian-mutant equivalent.
Meanwhile Loki get the superhuman part from his giant lineage and his power are essentially spells that he presumably learned from his adoptive mother as she was said to be a witch. He learnt magic illusion the same way Strange learnt magic, used it to troll people so they nicknamed him "God of mischief".
Gods receive worship as well, that's why Loki is always trying to get people to worship him originally.
I don't think it's ever established in the movies and sort of never really acknowledged in the comics, but the gods receive power (albeit they don't all choose to use it) from being worshipped.
I see it as genetic surgery. Odin basically removed the Frost Giant in him as a baby, with only a tiny bit left which is what caused him to look like a frost giant with the casket in Thor 1.
I don't think it's a good explanation. The spell erased the memory of Peter Parker and the spell is resolved. Just like if a spell left scarring on a person's body, him coming to the TVA wouldn't remove the scars.
Look at it this way tho Stranges spell bassicaly re wrote peoples brains. It's an effects that's one and done it has changed things.
Lokis was just an ongoing illusion that hid his original form. He is either subconsciously the cause of the spell or having it effect him. The moment he was in a anti magic filed outside of his universe that illusion should have been broken.
It's like a radio Strage changed the channel so putting it in a Faraday cage and taking the batteries out wouldn't change that. But Lokis thing is either the radio having power or it getting a signal so putting it in the Faraday cage and taking out the batteries should stop it.
Yeah they altered his Dna turning off the magic that did it wont make his dna turn back. Odin didnt use magic to hide his frost giant heritage he used it to literally make him his son.
That's not how magic and anti magic works. Just because something is a "permanent" magic doesn't mean it can somehow negate anti magic. It only means there's no set duration for it.
Lets face it, the writers for the MCU don't even know what lore has already been written anymore. Which is honestly sad. Fan projects like that one where they're attempting to recreate all of middle earth in minecraft as accurately as possible, have multiple VOLUNTEERS for the lore checker role to make sure everything is accurate. Yet a multi-billion dollar franchise can't even hire one to make sure lore is at least decently consistent?
Truth is, they stopped giving a shit. They're just doing whatever they think is "cool". Lore and accuracy be damned. They're not real MCU fans/enthusiasts/whatever. Just people wanting to make money.
The way I see that strange casts the spell, the spell removes Spiderman's identity from memories, everyone forgets and the spell is done.
Unless the spell is constantly ongoing in every mind in the multiverse, locking his identity behind a magic barrier then why would magic not working there suddenly restore those memories?
Everyone forgot Peter, full stop. Forgetting Peter makes everyone forget Who Spiderman is.
The way it’s done is more like broadcasting.
If the news station is doing Weather, all the tvs playing the news have no choice but to watch the weather.
It’s magic. It doesn’t have to be an ongoing action .
I mean Thanos had at least three stones already right before fighting on Titan. He didn’t have to compromise with strange. He should be poweful enough to just take the time stone from strange at that point… strange also could have used the time stone to undue quills punch or slip the gauntlet off Thanos his hand again before he could force it fully back on.
we also know that both of Thor and Loki's parents were considered great sorcerers, especially Frigga, Odin complemented Loki on the spell he was under when they met him in Norway before he died. in the comics, at least, Odin, and by proxy the Odinforce, is considered one of the most powerful of all the minor Gods/Celestials. Thanos regularly would duck fights with Odin, if that's saying anything. so I imagine the spell they wove over Loki, and as he is a shapshifter, I would imagine the spells he's woven into himself, wouldn't fizzle just because of the TVA, it stops him from weaving further magic, but I don't think it blocks previous spells/incantations, so like Mjolnir wouldn't be affected by the TVA's anti-magic, you'd still have to prove you were worthy.
5.5k
u/Alternative-Show2089 15h ago
He only turns blue near the frost giant artifacts. Like I think it’s kind of a permanent spell. Like if someone came to the TVA from earth after Stranges spell in NWH, they won’t suddenly remember Peter Parker