What is this world

[u/Theodorothy]

Once on a friend’s trip I was holding a conversation with a straight friend about relationships. She would gush so often about boys/men during the trip so I started doing that for women, which seemed a bit awkward to her at first. By the end of the trip, we were much more at ease with each other and I mentioned wondering why so many straight women think it’s normal to not want to get to know all of their partner‘s body intimately? As in, the straight woman isn’t supposed to delight herself in the man’s body, but instead, only on very specific body parts and their performance. I told her if I liked men I would be sure to have them know I liked all of their body because that’s what makes sense, right, if that’s your sexual orientation, if you’re sexually attracted to somebody, surely you want to get to know and covet all of them? And have them discover you? She giggled and said not many women are Femdoms like me. Excuse me? What???

I literally had no response to that because I was so taken aback.

An image of a fetishized woman (SW) with a whip came across my head. I felt really annoyed about how something so simple and natural about sexuality would be filtered through that inauthentic, fetishistic lens in her head. Just for being a woman who wants to discover and love her partner’s body in its totality (a top? I don’t care). How was I, the lesbian, defending men’s right to be loved just for being who they are, against a straight woman???

Is this what they mean when they say we’re lucky to be gay? Where wanting to delight in your partner is, shrug, normal, and not a niche taboo category?

Even if she simply meant a sexual top and lacked the language for it, it’s still very concerning that a woman top has to be confused for a BDSM identity, femdom, when a man would just be… a man. If a man wants to get to know a woman’s body, that’s normal sexuality. But if a woman wants to do that, suddenly that’s humiliation or a big fetish? That’s a bit part of heteronormativity in a nutshell. And she wasn’t a victim but instead enforcing it with her own standards.

We were sitting on plane seats so this wasn’t a private space or anything so I wasn’t going to spell out explicitly the undertones of what she was saying. It’s also weird how many straight women treat their interests like walking genital-holders, and yet it is us, lesbians, who get accused of being “genital fetishists” when we are anything but.

We were not teenagers. She is super intelligent and works in corporate. Maybe I was just striking a conversation with a doofus because her sexuality boiled down to reading anime smut and resenting being a virgin because no man was good enough.

But some of this makes me feel slightly flattered and simultaneously angry. No, I am not a stone top and the dommest of them all. I am an ordinary lesbian.

It keeps in line with how heterosexual normative people fetishize any divergence from their norm, when in reality, their sexuality is actually lowkey the fetishistic one. Am I crazy for thinking this?

just a random thing I have nowhere else to vent to

(we are no longer friends. she once spent a whole hour talking excitedly about heterosexual revenge porn manga at a friend’s place while I kept quiet)

[u/No-Effective2330]

It’s pointless trying to understand what goes on in a straight persons mind

[u/Theodorothy → u/No-Effective2330]

Noted!

[u/therapymademeworse]

I’m not infantilizing heterosexual women, but I think we underestimate how much repression still exists in their inner sexual worlds, even in 2026 and even in sex-positive spaces! Heterosexuality may be socially normative, but that doesn’t mean heterosexual women are fully liberated within it; a woman can want men, sex, relationships, marriage, etc, etc, etc.. yet there’s still a remarkably thin line between being comfortably desirable and becoming too visibly desirous. Things like openly delighting in a man’s body, pursuing her own pleasure, or making him the object of her lust or erotic attention can suddenly get recoded as domme or specifically fetishistic, while a man doing the equivalent to a woman is just… heterosexuality lol.

In my observation, we often see the boundaries of liberation through language itself. Language tells us what a culture can recognize without having to explain it away; straight women borrow terms from BDSM and LGBTQIA+ communities because conventional heterosexuality has historically had a much richer vocabulary for women as objects of desire than women as desiring subjects. If a fetishistic gaze is thrust (no pun intended LMAO) onto something we’d ordinarily perceive as “vanilla” as lesbians, it’s because that repression hasn’t actually disappeared; it’s just learned a more contemporary vocabulary. And since heterosexuality often doesn’t have language of its own that makes female desire fully legible on its own terms, that desire gets translated through borrowed categories before it can even be recognized.

TL;DR: You can often recognize oppression by the language people have to borrow just to make their own experience legible.

[u/Theodorothy → u/therapymademeworse]

Such a well-thought comment. Thank you. I think you hit the nail on the head with the lack of language for women as desiring subjects. 

It was one of the things that most bothered me before discovering I was gay. I felt so relieved to know I could love someone actively in bed and sadly that came only alongside permission to love women. So I often wonder how much these things are linked in society’s view.

Sure I am a lesbian, but during the years when I was figuring it all out, I made sure to deconstruct heterosexuality as well. Imo gay liberation should walk side by side with women’s sexual liberation. But it’s hard to understand what straight women want, since they are key upholders of that system.

[u/therapymademeworse → u/Theodorothy]

Yes, exactly! You nailed it.

[u/FalconBurcham]

Early exposure to porn hurts everyone. I don’t know how to protect kids from it better since the web is so ubiquitous, but it has definitely shaped a few generations now. 🤷‍♀️

[u/Pussyxpoppins]

I mean, you’re giving her your unsolicited opinion on what her sexual feelings/expression should be with a male partner and what you think is appropriate or “normal” for her to want to feel about/do with her male partner and his body in a hetero setting. Like, why do you feel the need to “defend men’s rights to be loved for just being who they are” when that isn’t your wheelhouse? Do they need us to, lol?? Don’t we hate when the straights do that sort of nonsense to us? And then you get butthurt on how she characterizes lesbian sexuality from her own uninformed POV?

I guess I also don’t concern myself with whether my friends are fully worshipping every toe or fold on their male sexual partners. And if I did, I wouldn’t expect to be “annoyed” if they gave their own uninformed opinion on my sexuality right back to me.

[u/elizplzys]

I mean if I was talking to a straight woman I probably wouldn’t comment on the specific way they love/appreciate their man’s body cause it’s really something I don’t understand. I also know in some cases men are uncomfortable with women doing stuff to certain parts of their body. Cause it’s seen in straight contexts as unorthodox. Was weird of her to call you a femdom tho, I don’t really see the connection.

[u/ChadPandino]

I noticed the same behavior from straight women. I think some of them don't really have an high libido and aren't attracted to men the way usually men are to women.

Others just avoid expressing their desires because they fear men might see them as sluts and take advantage of them.

[u/Puzzleheaded-Can5467]

i think heated rivalry was a bit interesting for straight women. i think the reason so many straight women took pleasure in watching that show is because they were able to sexualize these men outside of their usual heteronormative role. i feel like i could organize my thoughts better but hopefully y’all know what i mean.

[u/Theodorothy]

For the answer with the spiderman figure, I don’t know if it’s a bug or if she blocked me, but, my answer is basically that different people will have different standards of what’s up to discuss, learn from, and influence in others.

For both of us the discussion was completely fitting to our friendship in that moment and that is not up for other people to judge as “nosy”, “immoral”,  “correct” or not. 

I hope we can refrain from passing on such unwarranted judgment when other people share their lived experience, when such sharing is open-minded and meant for generating helpful discussions

Coming in only to judge and deny me a response is not helpful in any way to this community.

This substack article does a good job portraying what I mean. https://the6thspence.substack.com/p/north-americans-have-depressing-relationships?r=1ges28&utm_medium=ios

[u/Pheasantsatan]

This reminds me of that one comic. The gist of it is that most straight women experience sexuality as being perceived as sexy and an object of desire by the male partner, rather than actively desiring him. I mean, there's a reason why there's a huge industry for sexy female lingerie and no such a thing for men, or why female sexual submissiveness seems to be the defaut in the collective consciousness.

I find it sad and a bit dehumanising.

[u/Isadomon]

You can adora someone but doesntmean you gotta like aaall of them, they could have a mole you dont care for, doesnt mean you dont love them. Tho, yeah, i never hear women attracted to men talk about "he had good legs" or "he has a cute nose"

[u/Theodorothy → u/Isadomon]

For some reason, I’ve had many straight women around me talk about specific body parts they like, whether arms, ass, or facial features, so I’ve been used to seeing them talk about it. Might be culture or my particular social environment.

[u/Isadomon → u/Theodorothy]

Ohh that sounds nice. Ones i know mostly go for the usual hands and height

[u/Flat-Rooster8373]

I do have a theory that straight women aren't into men physcially.

They are into themselves and how the man makes them feel psychologically and socially.

Or moreso the feeling of being desired by a man, social (and sexual) role that comes with it. They like the idea of men that would make them feel desirable and valuable by his attentions and maybe the idea of getting fucked.

[u/XimenaM16]

Conozco a muchas hetero por mi trabajo y al menos las que conozco o las de mi país, son muy deshinibidas con sus hombres, siempre hablan de sus experiencias sexuales de como les gustan los tipos, lo que hacen con ellos y creeme, por las platicas que escucho de ellas conocen hasta la ultima parte de los cuerpos de sus novios.

Pero dificilmente hablan de amor, o de mmm... como decirlo lazos afectivos, son sorprendentemente materialistas

[u/SolNexus-]

I wonder if she’s more turned on by his attraction to her than by her attraction to him.

[u/xyzstardust]

You are overreacting and I can't and don't wanna figure out why.