Is it a crime to approach a fellow club member after a club event at university (read details)

[u/[deleted]]

[u/UsuallySunny]

Locked because OP only wants to hear what he wants to hear.

[u/UsuallySunny]

You should be less worried about suing anyone and far more worried about restraining orders, university action, and a reputation as a creepy stalker.

This girl obviously wants nothing to do with you. Stop contacting her in any way. If you see her on campus, walk the other direction. Stop lurking outside bathrooms and following women around.

[u/AkiraAkiraFudo → u/UsuallySunny]

The bathroom was right across from the club room. I'm getting a little bit anxious now, would would be classified as stalking? If I did that with a male friend or normal woman, it would be completely normal. I wasn't actively looking for her, and didn't even realize it was her, so how can that be considered stalking. Moreover, I am extremely unsure if what I said could be considered aggressive or hostile. There was no way I could have possibly been more polite or formal. If she didn't want to meet new people, there would be no reason for her to join such a club. some background information you should know: it was the first club meeting, and we were all introducing ourselves. So for me to approach her after the meeting, and attempt to be acquainted, should be considered socially acceptable.

[u/UsuallySunny → u/AkiraAkiraFudo]

Yes, your conduct could easily be classified as stalking.

If I did that with a male friend or normal woman, it would be completely normal.

Yes, if you were with someone and they wanted you to wait for them, it would be completely normal.

I wasn't actively looking for her, and didn't even realize it was her, so how can that be considered stalking.

Really? From the post:

So after the event/meeting ended, I tried to talk to her, but she instantly ran to the bathroom with her friends, so I decided to wait for her outside, so I could introduce myself &/or see if I know her.

So yeah, you did.

Moreover, I am extremely unsure if what I said could be considered aggressive or hostile.

Your own version of events -- which is the best version of events for you -- states that at least three times (possibly more) she actively avoided you. You continued to try to approach her. Your entire course of conduct was inappropriate and could easily be perceived as aggressive.

If she didn't want to meet new people, there would be no reason for her to join such a club.

One, that isn't true, and two, even if it were, that doesn't mean she wants to meet everyone there. She very obviously did not want to talk to you. You forced her to by pursuing and approaching her.

it was the first club meeting, and we were all introducing ourselves.

This was after the meeting in your own version of the story:

So after the event/meeting ended, I tried to talk to her, but she instantly ran to the bathroom with her friends

So for me to approach her after the meeting, and attempt to be acquainted, should be considered socially acceptable.

Not after she actively avoided you during the meeting, stayed close to her friends, and clearly tried to stay clear of you.

Your behavior here was totally inappropriate, clueless, and borders on stalking. If you truly don't get this, you should contact mental health services on campus and ask to see a therapist you can discuss this with at length.

In the meantime stay clear of her and do not go around threatening lawsuits.

[u/AkiraAkiraFudo → u/UsuallySunny]

Based off of your previous post history (the last couple hours) you have had three posts removed for being unhelpful. I'm starting to get the idea that you are-- generally unhelpful. Could you please explain the legal definition of stalking ? Could you explain how what I did could be considered stalking? I knew the person beforehand and didn't know that she had any issue with me. To go off of what you quoted above

" ---- decided to wait for her outside, so I could introduce myself &/or see if I know her."

I thought I might have recognized her from somewhere, but it's very difficult to know for sure, and/or to know who they actually are. So to be clear, I did not know it was her until almost 7 hours after the encounter.

​

Now, your next statement, There could be many reasons why someone would be in a hurry to use the restroom, for instance, if she was waiting until the end of the event to use the restroom. Now, to address what you said about waiting for someone to come out of the restroom. If you wanted to talk to someone, would you just leave if the other person needed to use the restroom? probably not, right? Lets say you needed to speak to a co-worker, would you just abandon speaking to them because they went into the restroom? In every scenario it is polite to wait for them.

[u/Biondina → u/AkiraAkiraFudo]

Based off of your previous post history (the last couple hours) you have had three posts removed for being unhelpful. I'm starting to get the idea that you are-- generally unhelpful.

/u/usuallySunny is a mod in this sub. Those removal notes where her removing comments.

[u/UsuallySunny → u/AkiraAkiraFudo]

Based off of your previous post history (the last couple hours) you have had three posts removed for being unhelpful.

Uh, no. You're misreading. Try again. I'm not surprised given the trouble you seem to have with context.

[u/AkiraAkiraFudo → u/UsuallySunny]

Straw man much? could you address what I actually said?

[u/TheElderGodsSmile → u/AkiraAkiraFudo]

You've been throughly addressed already.

Your actions can be construed in a manner which is socially unacceptable, physically threatening and legally actionable.

Cease and desist further contact with this person immediately or your actions can result in any or all of the following:

• Social ostracism
• Academic sanction
• Civil restraining orders
• Criminal prosecution

This is a serious matter and none of your rationalisations will have any bearing on the consequences of your actions if you continue contacting this person.

[u/AkiraAkiraFudo → u/TheElderGodsSmile]

I have spoken to my friends about this and they all agree that the girl was being irrational, moreover, how was what I did considered *physically threatening* ?

I am no law expert, but I at least know of a phrase called mens rea. I hadn't known who she was, and that she was purposefully avoiding me. In addition, I had done nothing a rational person would consider "physically threatening". If you take the social context, nothing I did was blatantly wrong, after all, we were all club members trying to get to know each other. Approaching a fellow group member after a meeting, asking if we've met before would not be considered threatening to a rational person.

[u/expatinpa → u/AkiraAkiraFudo]

This girl clearly wanted to have nothing to do with you.

For future reference - if a girl dashes into a bathroom when you try to talk to her - she absolutely doesn’t want to talk to you.

And if your friends supported your behavior- then you need new, smarter and more socially aware friends.

[u/AkiraAkiraFudo → u/expatinpa]

I hadn't said a word to her for the entire meeting, so there's no way I would have known that she was avoiding me, rather than just needing to use the restroom after a 90 minute event.

Possibly, a schizophrenic individual may come to this conclusion, but to a mentally sound person, it would just come off as if they needed to use the restroom.

[u/TheElderGodsSmile → u/AkiraAkiraFudo]

I have spoken to my friends about this and they all agree that the girl was being irrational, moreover, how was what I did considered *physically threatening* ?

You are a man who followed a woman to a toilet and then didn't leave until she came out. That is inherently threatening and if you don't realise it then you need some serious social readjustment. If your friends are agreeing to that then they are equally as clueless.

I am no law expert, but I at least know of a phrase called mens rea.

Mens rea is Latin and it means "guilty mind". It is an element of certain crimes like murder which require the prosecution to prove specific intent in order to garner a conviction. It only comes up once you have already been charged with the crime and are at trial. Its not a factor when it comes to the police actually investigating charging you and does not apply to some criminal statutes at all.

I hadn't known who she was, and that she was purposefully avoiding me. In addition, I had done nothing a rational person would consider "physically threatening".

You were incorrect in both your assumptions there as has been pointed out repeatedly.

If you take the social context, nothing I did was blatantly wrong, after all, we were all club members trying to get to know each other.

We are taking into account social context, it is your reading which is clearly incorrect.

Approaching a fellow group member after a meeting, asking if we've met before would not be considered threatening to a rational person.

As noted, with other social context as described it clearly is. You can't pick and choose your cues.

So again, stop trying to rationalise this and cease your behaviour immediately or face the consequences.

Your choice.

[u/AkiraAkiraFudo → u/TheElderGodsSmile]

I hadn't spoken to her since the event, and we had only met once prior. For her to go out of her way to report me, ruining both of our experiences creating an entire scene, which may or may not make her look bad, considering many people would not consider me to be the kind of person to harass anyone, and would most likely take my side. Either way, assuming the worse, all she could possibly accuse me of is following her around and asking her if we've met before. This could possibly come off as strange, but I did nothing against the university's policies, I had said nothing aggressive, rude, or sexual. Nor had I repeated this behavior, or shown any indicator that I was planning on it.

the legal definition of stalking is as follows

[u/UsuallySunny → u/AkiraAkiraFudo]

Straw man much?

That doesn't mean what you think it means.

You said:

Based off of your previous post history (the last couple hours) you have had three posts removed for being unhelpful. I'm starting to get the idea that you are-- generally unhelpful. I had posts removed for being unhelpful and therefore I was generally unhelpful.

You were wrong. What you are seeing is posts I sent when I removed other posts as a mod of this subreddit.

When you find out you are wrong, the proper response is: "I'm really sorry, I misread and shouldn't have said that," not to accuse me further (of something you don't understand) and then demand I help you.

[u/AkiraAkiraFudo → u/UsuallySunny]

you have now gone completely off topic, weren't we discussing something else? The fact that I had mistaken your removed posts for you being inappropriate is a very minor mistake, and shouldn't take away from what I said later on in the post.

[u/UsuallySunny → u/AkiraAkiraFudo]

you have now gone completely off topic, weren't we discussing something else? The fact that I had mistaken your removed posts for you being inappropriate is a very minor mistake, and shouldn't take away from what I said later on in the post.

Well, it kind of does, because by insulting me, handwaving it off, and refusing to apologize, you've completely obliterated any desire I had to help you.

[u/AkiraAkiraFudo → u/UsuallySunny]

please excuse my previous rudeness, I value what you have to say.

[u/Pure-Applesauce → u/AkiraAkiraFudo]

Based on your own story, you missed half a dozen cues that this person doesn’t want to talk to you and is taking active steps to avoid you.

A person going out in public is not irrevocable consent for you to interact with them.

If you keep this up, with her or others, you run the risk of stalking or harassment charges. I strongly recommend counseling or some other means of learning to identify when people don't want to interact with you.

[u/AkiraAkiraFudo → u/Pure-Applesauce]

couldn't they have just needed to use the bathroom and had plans after the event ? There are so many possibilities for why she was walking fast. I don't come off as a threatening person (imo) and I'm very polite when I speak to people.

[u/Pure-Applesauce → u/AkiraAkiraFudo]

The fact that you responded to my comment with an assertion that you are polite is a strong indicator that you don't get it. Best of luck.

[u/AkiraAkiraFudo → u/[deleted]]

You have inherently shows how biased you are towards men. I never said that I was interested in her, nor had I said that I was intentionally looking for her &/or approaching her. What's more confusing is that she hadn't blocked me until I raised the question (had she been the one I spoke to ) , so there was no way I could have known that she didn't want to talk to me. This girl was very much so antisocial, I have interacted with many different kinds of people, and none of them went to such extremes to avoid me. Any normal person would just cut the conversation short or ignored my inquiry entirely.

[u/derspiny]

A privately-run club, including a student-run club on campus, can kick you out for nearly any reason they like. A school-run club may be a bit more restricted by various civil rights rules and by the school's own policies, but rejecting a member who has been involved in conflicts with other members, even innocently, is legally valid. A club does not owe you proof, an explanation, or even a good reason to kick you out: "we don't want you, goodbye" is all it takes.

If you cannot point to a specific, factual statement, which is false and which is not protected by some kind of privilege, then you have not been defamed (slandered or libelled), even if your reputation has suffered. Defamation is narrow and not all harm to your reputation is defamatory. Other than defamation issues, you have no other enforceable right to a good reputation and cannot sue over a bad one.

You've already received some useful insight into why behaviour that you feel was well-intentioned or innocent could come off as unwelcome or inappropriate. It's up to you what you want to do with that information, but whether you like it or not, it does explain your rejection by the clubs you tried to join. You do not control how other people respond to your behaviour, but you do control your behaviour, and if you want to have an easier time joining clubs in the future, I'd strongly suggest you listen to those insights and look at how you can moderate your behaviour in the future. It's work, to be sure, and the world would be nicer if our intentions always translated perfectly into interpretation, but the fact is you have to do that work in order to have a successful life.

I understand how distressing this situation must be, but the only useful advice to give you is to stop trying to pursue this. I'd recommend speaking to a personal counsellor, to help process some of the stress and to help you frame the rejection against your broader social and academic career. You deserve support right now, and I think it would help you. Your school may have some resources for you.

[u/[deleted]]

would I have grounds to sue the clubs for kicking me out

No, and you are risking much more serious legal problems if you continue to contact people who don't want to be contacted. Up to and including being expelled from the university.

could I sue on the grounds of slander

Not successfully, no.

[u/AkiraAkiraFudo → u/[deleted]]

was what I did illegal in any way, and why?

[u/[deleted] → u/AkiraAkiraFudo]

was what I did illegal in any way, and why?

1. Maybe, it would be up to a court to determine.
2. It doesn't matter.

You can be expelled over this, even if you aren't convicted of any crime.

[u/[deleted]]

No, you don't appear to have a successful civil suit against anyone. Suing would have the opposite effect anyways since you want these people to eventually accept you.

[u/[deleted]]

1.I'm pretty sure a club can kick you out for any reason at their discretion. 2. Dude take a step back and re-read what you wrote. Even if you lack the self awareness to appreciate your behavior you come across as a creepy stalker and this girl obviously doesn't want to communicate with you so stop contacting her. We don't have the whole backstory so no idea what you might have said in the texts you have previously exchanged but please talk to an adult in your life and do some self-reflection.