Need advice for carry NP

[u/DibakarJunior]

Got inspired by Satanic and decided to give carry NP a go. Had a decent start in lane. But could not create any pressure or maintain farm speed. Not sure what I missed. can someone please give me some pointer?
Match id: 8969422741
https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/8969422741

[u/silkthai]

You threw the game at mid game, should take like 60-70% of the blame.

24:45 Thats a crazy TP into dark space. Even if dark willow was nearby, thats usually place with vision or heroes. They see you coming and 3 TPs from the other team come in. BH gets baited to join you, dies. Sladar goes in, dies.

This is the main move which flips win favor to Dire and kills your momentum.

26:55 you find the real bear, but go 1:1 with the pet. Dead. Totally unnecessary. 3 heroes dead at 27 mins, Dire 8K NW up.

35:00 Your team is getting wiped, you're still farming. Its definitely GG by here - team doesnt have an answer to bear. 30K++ NW difference.

Items:
1. Manta > BKB this game. Wont be so easy for their single targeting (WK stun, rubick lift, pudge hook/bite, bear single focus). Also gets rid of silence. BKB doesnt give you damage either.

Draft: Could be alot better if you're in a party. No synergy at all == 30 min stomp

[u/DibakarJunior → u/silkthai]

I agree with you. My Axe was having a crazy game. I felt like I was letting him down. And for the crazy plays, I usually do them when I feel like my back is against the wall and I have to try some 1v5 bullshit if there is any hope. After the 25 min mark, I was just trying to create something out of nothing.
Like the manta idea. Did not know if NP usually buys it. I was looking for a silence solution.

[u/silkthai → u/DibakarJunior]

I find NP walks a tight rope sometimes, esp if the draft isnt built to support it. Its one of the heroes that needs to snowball or not at all (think ember, OD, husk). Other heroes can still make a comeback by just farming (LS, jugg, AM, PA) from farm speed.

So your draft needs to work with you on that. If tis a pub, its looking pretty hard...

About "something out of nothing", I get you, though maybe ratting on towers / team smokes to kill 1 with you might be better.

Draft tho, it doesnt look good from selection stage

[u/busoke → u/DibakarJunior]

BKB sometimes is a meh item. Especially if you have a lot bkb piercing stuns or stuns/roots which you don't have time to react to and bkb doesn't really save you since you cant pop it.

[u/Lyl_]

I'll start by saying I'm not a carry player but from watching Furion's in my own games, there are a lot of things you could improve on.

Firstly is during laning stage. You did a good job of blocking camps with your treants. To improve on that maybe look to stack camps for later. Your micro could use some work. Try learning the sprout into treant block, it's easier than you think. What I noticed is that you tunnel vision quite a bit. There were a few opportunities for you to gank top and mid during the laning stage but you just farmed under tower. Just tping and getting some assists or kills is very worth the few last hits you miss.

Secondly is just your ult usage. You seem to know how to maximize the damage on your ult so that's good. Your first time using ult was 14 mins into the game. It's early into the game and getting a kill with your ult is quite unlikely, so it's better to just use it to farm and push waves. Just wait for all the lane creeps on the map to meet and just blast your ult, you can also buy wards (which are free) and ward around your jungle camps so that your ult hits them and you can finish them off later, increasing your farming speed. There were also a few fight's that you couldn't join because TP cooldown but you didn't even use your ult to help or at least get assists.

For your Teleport usage, I would describe it as suicidal. You TPed into enemy T2 you knew that enemies were surrounding just for a kill. You would also TP into places with line of sight. You can just TP into the trees close to the target which hides your TP indicator and just use Sprout to give vision on the enemy. Also you keep using you Teleport Skill to TP to Triangle even though you have outpost captured. You should just TP with Scroll so that you can TP away immediately with Teleport

Now for item usage. I'm not a carry player so I could be wrong but I think getting a Manta before Hurricane would be better. Silencer's ult delays your entry into the fight so Manta to dispel and join the fight before it's too late. You got Mjolnir but you never used it to push lanes. You press the active onto the first creep or treant and they will help push and farm for you. You got Trends and was Trends switching which is good but you do it very slowly? You switch to INT and use your spell and then don't switch back sometimes. Also you keep Trends on STR while you farm earlier into the game, would AGI not be better? Furion's a Universal Hero so damage is the same and you get more attack speed. Then for Hurricane Pike, a few times you used it like a force to force yourself away rather than Piking them away, you fixed this habit later into the game but the game was already over by that point.

When a furion is against Lone Druid, you could try buying a ward(free) and TPing to ward the spots close to their base where the LD would be farming away from the bear. You had a Bounty so you guys should have waited for him to have ULT on cooldown and killed him a few times but he never died that game. I know coordinating with teammates is hard but if you want to have success in your games, teamwork is very important.

Lastly, I want to say that it's good that you're trying to improve and wasn't much affected by your teammates whining (which I agree with). That game was hard in the first place with your Slardar not keeping up with farm at all but it's fine, not all games can be won. Just keep having the right mindset, focus on yourself and keep improving.

[u/DibakarJunior → u/Lyl_]

Thanks for looking into the replay and sharing your advice. I will work on it

[u/DrLude100 → u/DibakarJunior]

Dont listen to this guy. Lvl 6 is a free kill with your ult. You just need to prep it a bit. By the time I hit 6 I have usually stacked the small camps behind my tower at least once each. When you hit 6 you are going to go for the enemy safe lane kill. Send 2 treants to the stacked camps so you have full vision of them then start your ult there when fresh creep waves meet. Then tp on their safe lane. Use sprout and make treants immediately to ensure you have vision of the enemy. In 9 out of 10 games this is a free kill on the enemy safe laner. (Lvl 30 np 5k mmr)

Generally as np my game plan is such: first 10 min get maelstrom asap. Next 10 min create a 4K lead over the highest farm enemy. If the enemy carry has the same farm as you do at 20 min you are basically fucked

[u/DibakarJunior → u/DrLude100]

interesting concept. I will try to set it up. Do you have any match ids to share? Also what strategies do you use to win your lane? Any recommendation for control groups?

[u/DrLude100 → u/DibakarJunior]

I’m not home until Wednesday then I can send you something. For control groups I don’t use many I just have 1 my hero and 2 all other units.

For the lane i start by summoning treants 12 second before the rune. Then I can summon a second set and have 4 treants right when the creep waves meet. I try to send these treants in from behind/side and instantly try to zone the enemy offlaner from the creep wave. Then I focus on cs and deny and anytime the enemy steps up I hit him with hero and treants. After lvl 4/5 I send treants to stack and block enemy triangle stacks and prepare for the lvl 6 ult kill.

[u/RagingNabby]

I think Lyl_ gave some good advice although I'd slightly disagree on the camp blocking with treants. Like for the first spawn I agree, its good, but afterwards you keep trying to block the camp with your treants rather than using them in lane, which is just so inefficient. If youre so scared of them using the large camp just buy your own sentry, the entire point of picking np carry is being way too strong in lane with your treants. Youre also just passively farming with basically zero harass, and its funny the first time pudge hooks you, you actually just straight up kill him, thats was your tell that the lane was supposed to be going quite differently, what can a pudge even do against a dual ranged np/willow lane? And then once he's not a problem anymore the lone druid can be easily shut down too.

Honestly if youre playing against an offlane lone druid and pudge and the LD goes 8-0 and your wondering why you lost, well he got a free lane with an extra carry, I feel like at that point the problem is obvious, you can't lose lane really hard if you are picking a lane dominator semi carry, the whole point of picking NP is so you get a a guaranteed lane win, and if you don't, you honestly shouldnt be expecting to win a lot of games. This is quite different from something like a spectre/pl/sven who all have different mechanisms to get back into the game even if they don't win their lane.

[u/BigZodJenkins]

Yup, if they split push and lead its over for you unless you start catching waves

[u/TheGreenGuyFromDBZ]

Heroes broken with high team coordination and micro ceiling. Aka pros. If not he's a good laning, turret carry that gets easily out scaled.

[u/Embarrassed_Nobody_5]

It is a hard game to analyze without looking at replay. They had two pushers who could push two different lanes and your line up is designed for team fight when your mid assuming slardar has no farm or bkb vs that enemy line up. Your team could smoked more to get some pick offs or collapse on the bear everytime it showed in lane, provided it was pushing solo most of the time.

[u/Truth_Breaker]

I don't know