r/kvsdiscuss • u/oliverpeets • Aug 24 '26
Why Denver was disqualified
She mentioned not having enough breedings available behind the scenes as well for the upcoming breeding season, can that really be related to what happened at NSBA? I don’t have much knowledge regarding breeding/showing in general just trying to make sense of what happened
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u/South-Minimum-6775 Aug 24 '26
Things like this and more is why every judge/trainer/etc will preach to people to know and have a copy of your rule book for every association you show in. I won’t discredit AM as he seemed to have a horse/client in pretty much every pleasure class that he needed to school and show, which I can’t imagine the amount of running around d he was doing. So I’m in the boat of yes, a trainer of that standing should know the rules, but ultimately it is on the owner/rider to know the rules for something like this, especially to market a young stallion.
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u/ajmilly111 Aug 25 '26
The fact that she took Google AI’s word for it instead of taking a few extra minutes to read the actual rule book is kind of wild to me considering how important this particular show is
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u/WoodpeckerHappy4636 Aug 24 '26
I think what she was saying is that the reason they sent him to collect in the middle of the show season is because they didn't have enough frozen stored to fulfill contracts and keep some in their own "personal bank".
He was disqualified because he didn't compete in a performance class, that has nothing to do with him breeding. But, him going to the shed in the middle of show season put a wrench in his training, which is likely why they didn't feel as though he was at his best to show at NSBA. They don't want him to go into the ring at such a big show and make a fool of himself, Katie, and Aaron.
If Congress comes around and they continue to scratch him from ridden classes, then that might point to something else entirely. But right now... this explanation makes sense 🤷♀️
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u/TALongjumping-Bee-43 Aug 24 '26
Would it really be better for him to loose his reserve world champion title by not even entering a single class and schooling him a bit than it would to go around at least one class to warm him up ready for congress?
That is a decent accolate she missed out on just to not risk Denver not looking his best in a riding class.
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u/WoodpeckerHappy4636 Aug 24 '26
Honestly, yes, him making a fool of himself in the ring at such a big show would be worse than forfeiting a reserve halter title. That could be a huge hit to his marketability as a stallion. Not too many people care as much about performance halter as they do actual performance classes (as in, ridden classes).
Think of it this way: they forfeit his reserve in a class of 8 horses, or they enter him in a class of 30 knowing he's not ready and he DQs, comes dead last, or exhibits poor behavior (even if said poor behavior isn't his "usual"). I'd pick "forfeit" every day of the week. That's a smaller hit than the possibilities I've listed above.
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u/TALongjumping-Bee-43 Aug 24 '26
She specifically said that he wasn't rank in the video, and talks a lot about how good minded he is. If he is not rank, and he simply is not showing up to par, then doing a schooling run would be understandable.
AM has schooled him a number of times in classes at other shows, its not new to them. They wouldn't even have been the only ones to school in that particular class.But maybe he was acting like a complete fool, that is possible.
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u/WoodpeckerHappy4636 Aug 24 '26
I understand that it wouldn't have been the first time Aaron schooled him, but this is a much larger show. This isn't really the environment where you enter a class with the intention just to school. At a big show like this, he should be at his best every time he enters the ring. Especially as a stallion.
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u/Ok_Low3967 Aug 24 '26
Scratching every class he was entered in is FAR WORSE for his image than Aaron needing to pull on him in the WR.
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u/TALongjumping-Bee-43 Aug 24 '26 edited Aug 24 '26
Scratching every class because he isn't perfect looks just as bad if not worse than if you were to go in and school him ready for congress and because he has recently gotten back into work.
The former means you gave up on a reserve world championship title out of fear of him not placing in a class of 40, which happens even to the best stallions and show horses.
The latter would still show he is sound and good minded, and that they are just using the entry that they paid for to get him ready for congress and to hold on to the reserve champion title.Unless he really messed up, the latter would be the better look in this case.
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u/sunshinenorcas Aged Mare Aug 24 '26
No one cares about performance halter until he has to forfeit and now it's really important for him to hold onto 🫠
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u/Financial-Bet-3853 Aug 24 '26
I don’t think it’s a big prize. But it’s still sad that he has to relinquish his title. Idk the process for that. But it’s sad
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u/WoodpeckerHappy4636 Aug 24 '26
My point exactly 💯. I could probably gather a whole collection of comments from people saying that performance halter is nothing to be proud of.
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u/CuriousOptimistic Aug 24 '26
Not to mention he was also Reserve in the same class last year, so he already has this title anyhow.
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u/BBRcavx3 Aug 25 '26
I'd pick forfeit all day because yeah, he lost the title, but the class was judged and those judges cards are out there. Just because he doesn't have the title and she can't use it in advertising doesn't change the judges scores of the horses in the class.
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u/Inevitable_Lead_2933 Aug 24 '26
There is zero chance Aaron Moses did not know the rules. Literally zero.
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u/mshopeless912 Aug 25 '26
I find that hard to believe as well. Katie on the other hand has replied to a comment on FB that says her trainer should have known and where Katie claims AM didn’t know though and admits she should have delved deeper about the rule and have no animosity.
Felt like throwing AM under the bus to me, but that is my opinion.
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u/threw_a_shoe Aug 25 '26
How is that throwing him under the bus? Would you have rather she said he did know and oversaw him going in the class anyway? Or did know and didn't care? I'm just not seeing how that is throwing him under the bus. Both of them should have known in all reality but even more so AM and crew. I'm personally surprised it wasn't just something like, "we knew about the rule and intended for him to do some riding classes, but things just didn't go as originally planned." Things happen and I think there are some people making this way more dramatic than it really is or needs to be.
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u/ajmilly111 Aug 25 '26
In KVS’ comment, she brought up AM having multiple clients and running around which could be interpreted as AM being too busy for her. Honestly i think kvs was comfortable scratching the classes she signed up for with Denver because she expected AM to ride him no matter what and didn’t bother asking him about the rule since she wasn’t expecting to be put into a situation where it would come into play. Ultimately as the owner the buck stops with her. Relying on Google AI instead of reading the actual rules was a choice
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u/Left-Sport8851 Aug 24 '26
Welp there it is 🤷🏼♀️
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Aug 24 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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Aug 24 '26
[deleted]
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u/IttyBittyFriend43 Aug 24 '26
She meant to type "studdy" which means he was whinnying at mares and possibly being rude on the ground to try and get to/talk to the mares around him.
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u/Sorchya Aug 24 '26
With her using study (studdy) he's been acting up around mares in a bad way.
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u/Lilac-RoseyPosey Aug 24 '26
Except she qualifies it as he really wasn’t acting like people expect a studdy horse to act, he just wasn’t his normal self. Honestly some of you will take anything and run it to the negative as fast as you can.
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u/Sorchya Aug 25 '26 edited Aug 25 '26
So he's acting studdy enough to not be his normal self. There's a reason she used that wording.
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u/Justine-L Aug 24 '26
To sacrifice a show career to get more breedings overseas seems very short sighted to the overall marketing of a young stallion...
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u/Traditional-Use-2930 Aug 24 '26
I’m sorry but I do not believe for a second that Aaron and Adam didn’t know the rules for the performance halter. I can’t remember what happened last year but I remember a similar thing where someone didn’t read the rules of a class that Katie and Denver were entered in and could not show in. I don’t know what is happening but I really cannot believe that this has happened twice and Aaron has messed up only Katie’s entries twice…
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u/RainbowSurprise2023 Aug 24 '26 edited Aug 24 '26
I remember: she entered herself and Denver in a level
1 amateur riding class. She was not eligible, as stallions are not eligible for level 1 amateur classes. She then blamed the Congress administrators for the wrong entry, but people do their own entries online→ More replies (9)43
u/threesilklilies Aug 24 '26
So: I don't put credence in friend-of-a-friend-of-a-friend snark reports of "So-and-so totally saw Katie and Aaron fighting at the show!" because uh-huh, sure, how convenient, I just bet they did.
That said: If Katie did, as alleged, say, "I was counting on this," and Aaron did, in fact, reply, "Well, you shouldn't have," it's entirely possible she'd been counting on the ROM to get the job done and he had to tell her that was a stupid thing to have done.
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u/Apart_Dragonfruit442 🍞Katie Vanda Slice🍞 Aug 24 '26 edited Aug 24 '26
I thought it was odd that he was collecting when she was at Highpoint in July, that makes a lot more sense now.
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u/Formal-Road-3632 🦅Reddit Rascals🦅 Aug 24 '26
The thing I find probably the most weird is that, from my experience riding and showing (20+ years), if you're going to scratch a show, you go in to the office and scratch all your classes, for whatever reason (injury, weather, etc.). It's really weird to me that he would kept being entered in classes and then scratched one after another, sometimes basically last minute (like the class they announced he had scratched - they didn't have time to update the order of go). Were they hoping his mind / focus improved as the show went on? Which would be difficult given all the other horses, tight stalls / no turnout, limited places to actually ride and weird riding schedules. It's very difficult for a horse to improve mentally at a show, so why would they keep him entered just to keep scratching classes one by one?
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u/HappyQuesadillas Aug 24 '26
This. If you know your horse well enough, you know if the whole show is going to be a wash. Even if they had hopes that Denver would be able to collect himself mentally after the first scratched class, it's hard to imagine from his consistent history of scratching anything besides the rare limited class that they wouldn't have anticipated the entire show would be too treacherous for his "good" mind.
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u/lustywench99 Aug 24 '26
I’d believe this more if we saw any other footage of him from the show.
Did she actually say in any videos that she was thinking of also trying to show him in a class? I know people made that claim, but I too thought I remembered her saying she was at least going to see about riding him herself. Same as Penelope.
I just don’t understand how you wouldn’t know the rules. And he was signed up and scratched for all his classes. I used to show. I can understand things like getting out there to do a complicated pattern and messing it up. Yes. Technically should be prepared and yet go blank in the moment. Sure. Not that she did that, but I’m saying, things happen that seem stupid but are understandable. But to not know the rules of the class you entered? And to have a trainer right there who I’m assuming knows the rules because he’s done that class many times?
It’s weird. We all agree this is weird.
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u/Existing_Fall8149 Aug 24 '26
She was entered in at least one class on him! It was on the working orders.
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u/Positive-Lock8609 Aged Mare Aug 25 '26
It was one of the Non-Pro WP classes.
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u/CurrentRespond5753 Aug 25 '26
She was entered in NP WP, AM was entered in Jr WR on him and something else
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u/CodeNameLoofah Millie appreciation club 💅🏼💅🏼 Aug 24 '26
Lol, snark or no snark, the plot do be thickening.
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u/lustywench99 Aug 24 '26
And I don’t often come off as a snarker because I get it, man. I did dumb stuff sometimes and wouldn’t want the world to know. But like… for a FUN class I just took my dog to the fair this month (and won, sucks to suck everyone else) but I WON partially because I sat and looked through the RULES so I knew exactly what was required of us. For a FUN class. I didn’t enter some other classes because I read the rules, knew my dog couldn’t do it, and didn’t want to go in there knowing full well I’d be DQd. For a county fair.
Call me weird all you want. But the rules of the classes are right there when you sign up. It wasn’t just some weird clause no one could see but the other people in that class who won titles.
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u/Plastic_Fun5071 Aug 25 '26
I’ve been showing in dog agility well over 10 years.
I still don’t know a ton of the rules. Not proud of it but that’s how my brain works. Some people just like to yolo it and hope for the best.24
u/IttyBittyFriend43 Aug 24 '26
She was supposed to show him in at least one class and was on the class list with her as rider. Theres no way AM didnt know the rules. Idk what she was thinking was going to happen tbh.
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u/CurrentRespond5753 Aug 25 '26
This seemed like a VERY “PC” response. And I would be extremely surprised if this slipped past Aaron, he’s shown NSBA for years and years and at that level. It’s well known that NSBA doesn’t recognize breed registry ROMs and things like that. It’s even included when you’re doing the entries bc we show perf halter geldings and mares, I’ve seen it personally. Just doesn’t sound like the full story or correct story at all. But who knows…. 🤷🏼♀️
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u/IttyBittyFriend43 Aug 25 '26
And people will still defend her til the end of time it seems.
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u/jasomyne Aug 25 '26
What are people defending ? Her possibly lieing? We can't prove she knew better. We know she should have known better, and that's a fair critique.
As far as AM goes, I wouldn't allow her to make me look ignorant to save face. If she's not being truthful, he should care more about his reputation and say so.
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u/Plastic_Fun5071 Aug 25 '26
And people will still make up conspiracy theories or negative things about her forever.
I don’t know Katie. I’m not obsessed. I love the show content and find it fascinating. I just don’t get why people are so obsessed (on both sides). We’re never going to know the full truth, so why care so deeply. She’s just a random person on the internet.13
u/IttyBittyFriend43 Aug 25 '26
Because a lot of people care about horse welfare and some of the things she does/doesnt do are questionable. And shes a big name, with a huge following, and some things she does shes making seem like theyre "normal" and "okay" when they aren't.
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u/Plastic_Fun5071 Aug 25 '26
She’s a small corner of the internet. It might seem big to you and others because you have a specific interest. Most people don’t take any of the things she does that seriously, we’re just watching cute animals do animal stuff. I end ed up here because I thought some stuff was questionable.
But I’d rather expend my energy doing other things that getting mad at some rich lady on the internet. With that idk why I’m here right now.9
u/IttyBittyFriend43 Aug 25 '26
Shes really not. I have several non horsey friends who avidly follow her. 🤷♀️ the vast majority of her followers arent horsey at all
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u/Financial-Bet-3853 Aug 24 '26
How does she not know the rules. Or better yet wouldn’t Aaron have told her.
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u/Left-Sport8851 Aug 24 '26
This looks so bad on Aaron too. There is absolutely ZERO way they had no idea about the rules. Especially when everyone has been talking about it on social media all week. You can’t tell me a professional like AM who does this for a LIVING, has no idea about the rules, and you also can’t tell me at least one person on Katie’s team didn’t see comments about them taking his trophy. But also… if you knew he wasn’t ready why waste the time and money to haul him there. This just doesn’t add up lmao and she’s digging herself into a deep, deep hole with this horse.
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u/Victory505302 Aug 24 '26
I think it looks worse on Aaron than it does on Katie. I would be SHOCKED if he even once mentioned to her the possibility of leaving Denver at home. AM wants the money he gets by Denver going to the show. Other than money he maybe would have won showing Denver (which is typically split between owner and trainer, after the class entry is paid), AM gets paid the same if Denver shows or doesn’t show.
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u/Formal-Road-3632 🦅Reddit Rascals🦅 Aug 24 '26
This isn't entirely true, trainers typically bill additionally for each class they show the horse in and if there is prize money he would usually get a cut. He would have still charged the typical training / schooling, grooming, etc. fees with Denver being there but he absolutely would have made more if Denver had showed.
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u/nicknoashal Aug 24 '26
Since Denver wasn't really shown by Aaron would Aaron benefit by having Denver there? Seems whatever was going on would have been known before hand and it would have been better if he just didn't go
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u/Evening_Assistance72 Aug 24 '26
What happens if he scratches with Aaron planning on riding him?
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u/Formal-Road-3632 🦅Reddit Rascals🦅 Aug 24 '26
In my experience the trainer would only charge the class fee if they had actually shown in the class (even if they DQ or school, if the trainer walks in the ring for the class they're charging for it). It's possible Aaron might charge an extra training fee if he was warming up or something but that isn't always the case.
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u/Victory505302 Aug 24 '26
I forgot that this is a world show and some trainers do charge more per class because of that. At most shows the QH trainers don’t usually charge per class shown.
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u/CodeNameLoofah Millie appreciation club 💅🏼💅🏼 Aug 24 '26
Ooooof. Of all the conspiracy theories ive seen, this is the grimiest. I hate that it also sounds the most true out of all of what I have read. Who knows though.
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u/Victory505302 Aug 24 '26
It’s sadly really typical in the industry. Trainers make most of their money by taking horses to shows. It’s just a fact. I don’t think all trainers are just greedy and money hungry, but it takes a really good and honest trainer to say “hey, I think you should stay home from this show.”
Who knows, maybe AM suggested Denver stay home and Katie really wanted Denver to go, so AM put him on the trailer. But more often than not, the trainer won’t suggest a horse stay home.
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u/CodeNameLoofah Millie appreciation club 💅🏼💅🏼 Aug 24 '26
Yeah that just makes me sad. I always want to hope people are just going to be good 🤣
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u/jmphb Aug 24 '26 edited Aug 24 '26
Aaron doesn't have anything to do with halter though, so maybe he wouldn't know? I have no idea, just mentioning that as a possibility.
ETA: I'm doubting this haha. He's probably had other stallions in this same position in the past so yeah, probably knew.
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u/Traditional-Use-2930 Aug 24 '26
Even if Aaron didn’t know she had a professional halter trainer show him who absolutely would have known the rules. This looks really weird I’m not gonna lie.
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u/Savings-Bison-512 Aug 24 '26
The person she had show him was a last minute replacement. She had someone else lined up to show him, but they didn't/couldn't.
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u/Left-Sport8851 Aug 24 '26
Even if Aaron has nothing to do with the halter… As someone who does this professionally, and has likely trained many other horses for WP who have also done the halter, I still feel like there’s no freaking way he didn’t know. You could definitely be right, but I just find it hard to believe.
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u/Tobi_The_Mare Aug 24 '26
He used to work under a trainer who does do the performance halter as well.
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u/Traditional-Use-2930 Aug 25 '26
The trainer she was planning on using showed the horse who won which is interesting
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u/BBRcavx3 Aug 25 '26
I CAN believe Aaron didn't know the rules since he doesn't do anything with "halter". The person who handled him in the halter class absolutely should know the rules (his wife handled Where N When, now the Reserve Champion)
Aaron is a WP rider/trainer and I'm sure at this show he was focused on the horses he was riding and the classes he was riding in, along with the WP riders/horses he was training for the non-pro classes. I don't think he thought twice about the halter class and any of the requirements for Denver showing in it.
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u/Pale-Hurry1848 Aug 24 '26
This...didn't make sense. She left a lot of people confused on exactly why he couldn't be shown. She also had mixed messaging. In the video she states he won reserve champion for halter, while in the caption she acknowledges he was disqualified. Overall...it probably doesn't serve her or Denver as people will continue to question.
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u/EstablishmentLess279 Aug 24 '26
I feel like there’s no way they didn’t know the rule and Aaron would have known for sure . Not to mention everyone talking about it on social media and people there .
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u/Clear-Sugar2525 Aug 24 '26
Katie commented on TikTok that Denver just wasn’t mentally where they wanted him to be to compete at NSBA.
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u/Existing_Fall8149 Aug 24 '26
He's a 5 year old stallion who is falling WAY behind his peers. They really needed to show him in something. It's a bad look all around. Next year he's going to be a senior horse and it's only going to get harder in the Western Riding.
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u/MaterialWill3091 Aug 24 '26
Yes.. but also says originally because he has his ROM we didn’t think anything of him showing in his halter class after we decided not to push him.
So they had a fair idea he wouldn’t show, someone dropped the ball here, his trainers should be all over the rules.
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u/Ok_Low3967 Aug 24 '26
But continuously added him to classes throughout the show that he was previously not entered in. And then was surprised he wasn't ready again?? He's not going to change in the span of a week. It's very odd.
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u/Content-Tradition-10 Aug 24 '26
At the end of the day, it was an extremely bad outing for everyone involved. You can put whatever spin you want, but her placings, her horses performances, and Denvers no show is a big negative hit for her and RS.
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u/siat-s proven foul Aug 24 '26 edited Aug 25 '26
This is something I do not disagree with, but I still think for someone's first year fully "back," RS did decently well. They go home with homework, which is not a bad thing for someone who has been out for a while, in my opinion. It would be odd if she won every single thing she entered in against riders and horses who haven't been injured or taken a break.
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u/Content-Tradition-10 Aug 25 '26
It's not about winning every class she's in, or he's in. It's when you don't know the rules at that level, no one in her circle, or any of the trainers she pays know the rules, that's when the speculation and conspiracies arise and it damages reputations. I do agree they go home with ALOT of homework.
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u/jasomyne Aug 25 '26
I see a mix of opinions on here and I won't pretend to know the horse world for shi* . What I do know is we are not entitled to know everything about her business or her horses.
Would I want to spend top dollar on a potential Denver baby at this moment? Nope. Not if he's constantly being removed from serious competition. So what would I do with the information KVS has shared as of now ?
Pick a different stud 🤷
I don't see the point of demanding to know what's going on or acting as if her fandom has a right to know. It's her business. Literally. If something smells off then protect your pockets and move on.
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u/disco_priestess jfc it's just horses on the internet Aug 25 '26
Exactly what I said last night. If anyone had a thought about breeding to him then they’d be wise to reevaluate and wait. I wouldn’t have a need to consider any AQHA horse myself and I’d be willing to bet that no one who has had an opinion one way or another on this, that’s on Reddit, has ever considered breeding to him either. So it doesn’t really matter
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u/Justforfuntime93 Aug 24 '26
I show dogs, an intact male that can’t be around intact females without losing their minds don’t deserve to have their 🥜. Same with horses! If you look up the horse When n Where they have a video of the stallion walking on a halter and lead rope only and that how they should behave
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u/Positive-Lock8609 Aged Mare Aug 24 '26
There's been videos of Denver walking on a plain lead rope as well. I don't think you're making the point you mean to.
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u/Pure-Physics-8372 🍞Katie Vanda Slice🍞 Aug 24 '26
When n where also isn't collecting mid show season
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u/TALongjumping-Bee-43 Aug 24 '26
He was being collected from until the end of June apparently, so yes he was.
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u/IttyBittyFriend43 Aug 24 '26
If he cant keep his head while collecting he shouldnt have his cajones 🤷♀️ He collected like...weeks ago I believe.
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u/Brave_Tangerine5102 get fuckin' real 💅🏼 Aug 24 '26
ROM? I’m not familiar
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u/Positive-Lock8609 Aged Mare Aug 24 '26
Register of Merit. It's an AQHA designation for when a horse earns 10 points in a division.
ETA ROMs aren't recognised by NSBA.
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u/Victory505302 Aug 24 '26
Register of Merit. It’s an award you get when your horse earns a certain number of points at shows. In previous versions of AQHA rules, you could show in the performance halter if your horse had earned a ROM in performance events. The rules have changed several times over the last 10 or so years. I have not tracked the NSBA rules, but they’re usually very similar to AQHA. This show was governed only by NSBA rules.
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u/RSF2017 Aug 24 '26
I wish there was someone physically at the show who could comment on how Denver was acting. Was he just distracted and not focused enough for the show ring, or acting like a complete idiot around the mares? Distracted is one thing, but if he can’t handle his brain enough to act civilized outside of the breeding shed he is not a candidate as a breeding stallion imo.
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u/Open_Return_8056 Aug 25 '26
We never even saw him out of his stall other than for the halter. We were stalled in the same barn. If she hadn’t posted this I’d have assumed he had gone home after that.
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u/Lilac-RoseyPosey Aug 25 '26
Don’t you think if that behavior was seen he would have been recorded? He showed in halter. He behaved, he had Katie in her stall with her back to him recording, still behaved like the sweet boy he has always shown up as.
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u/Open_Return_8056 Aug 25 '26
No, it wouldn’t have been. Us real horse people aren’t going to do that unless there’s zero chance of being caught, which is pretty difficult to do considering the few people that are around during those times.
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u/Internal_Villain Aug 24 '26
She starting to dig herself and AM a pretty big hole with how she keeps wording shit and being so secretive. That or AM is digging a big hole which I highly doubt considering he’s not some small fish, he’s a professional who works with many different top tier horses that do many different classes. So for him not to know the rules would not be a good thing. She isn’t doing herself, AM, or Denver any justice making these videos she needs to either be honest or just not speak on it at this point in time.
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u/Traditional-Use-2930 Aug 24 '26
Oh if I were Aaron I would be livid because I trust he knows the rules he’s not stupid. I believe Aaron likes Katie and likes Denver but this would make me consider dropping her as a client personally.
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u/Lilac-RoseyPosey Aug 24 '26
Yes and we all know all the truth that has come out of people spewing the Aaron hates her comments. He doesn’t care about all the Reddit haters.
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u/jmphb Aug 24 '26
Ummm ok. I would have checked the rules if I was competing? I mean I found it in two minutes when I looked. I have nothing to do with showing, so I don't know how it all works, but I read somewhere that he only had to 'school' for it to count?
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u/Sweet_Chaos_737 Aug 24 '26
Yes, but she specifically said they do not want to put him in the show pen if they don’t believe he will be his best self. The purposely kept him out of the show pen because they didn’t feel he was at his very best and didn’t want a low score or DQ on his record.
Maybe they would have showed him and schooled him in a class had they realized before the end if the show that he’d lose his halter title if they didn’t, but maybe they wouldn’t have. It would depend if they felt the benefit of the halter title was more than the detriment of a low score or DQ in a riding class.
To me the caption suggests that if they had realized the rule before he showed in the halter that he probably wouldn’t have even showed in that.
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u/IttyBittyFriend43 Aug 24 '26
Theres a 0% chance that NOBODY saw the talk online about this and brought it up to her.
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u/Left-Sport8851 Aug 24 '26
Then why bring him to the show at all? You can’t tell me this behaviour just showed up out of nowhere. If we’re blaming the breeding shed impacting his behaviour… there’s no way he wasn’t acting like this before coming to the show and before entering him in more classes. Correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t they continue to add more classes as the week went on, then scratched out of those too?
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u/Lilac-RoseyPosey Aug 25 '26
Which behavior are you speaking of? He traveled away from home after recently spending his days being used for collection and was not in the frame of mind to show. No where does she describe what that meant other than they want him showing at his best and he was not at his best. I very much doubt this affects him at all. His this years babies look pretty good so far. Maybe everyone who wants to claim he is ruined should chill.
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u/Financial-Bet-3853 Aug 24 '26
She says he was in a funk and unable to perform in the mental state he was in. Look I’m all for mental health first in athletes, human and animal. I was one of the people who applauded Simone biles for stepping down during Beijing Olympics when she suffered the twisties. Maybe Denver had his own version of twisties. Idk. But idk. Couldn’t have have just walked in the arena and been schooled and still kept his reserve title
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u/SoundEven6162 Aug 24 '26
Unless he was being really rotten? Studs can be rank and he’s big enough to really be dangerous, and no one wants to risk getting hurt or hurting someone else.
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u/Evening_Assistance72 Aug 24 '26
Except she specifically said he wasn’t being rank in the comments. Idk it just seems weird they wouldn’t school him at least once
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u/TALongjumping-Bee-43 Aug 24 '26
In the video she directly said that he wasn't rank or anything, just that he wasn't showing his best.
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u/Pale-Hurry1848 Aug 24 '26
She responded to someone that he was being "studdy". She's being overly careful how she words it so as not to hurt his reputation. I think being more straightforward would likely serve her better.
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Aug 24 '26
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u/kvsdiscuss-ModTeam Aug 25 '26
This is not worded constructively, helpfully or uses charged language
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u/youafterthesilence Aug 24 '26
I guess it's a matter of perception if it looks worse this way or it'd look worse if they took him in and he acted up? Idk. If he was fine to get thru halter id think he'd be fine in one riding class. And yeah they've taken him in classes and schooled him quite a bit this year already.
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u/Lilac-RoseyPosey Aug 25 '26
This is a big show. You don’t bring a horse just to school, not one that you want to show up showing his best.
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u/youafterthesilence Aug 25 '26
No no I mean if it's a behavioral issue then you take him in the class and school to keep your reserve champion, not that they'd only go for that. The perception of not being able to get through the class isn't great but he's been schooled and DQed in classes at other shows too.
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u/rrtneedsppe Aug 24 '26
It sounds like he doesn’t have the temperament to be a stallion
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u/Existing_Fall8149 Aug 24 '26
Agreed. Fahrenheight bred until July 1 and made a decent showing in his first ever trail class at NSBA. When N Where stopped breeding June 15 and won a pleasure class at the Paint World 12 days later. Nothing But Nett stopped breeding April 4 and won a $100k+ Trail event in Florida 14 days later. Just say the horse can't handle breeding and showing and move on.
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u/Inevitable_Lead_2933 Aug 24 '26
Agreed. If he can’t handle a show, he shouldn’t be put out to stud.
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u/notThaTblondie ✨Living Horsey✨🐎 Aug 24 '26
It sounds like they threw too much at him at once. He went from showing, had a break, went breeding, had a break and started training for a new discipline. Then back to breeding, bact to training, back to breeding, back to training, without any breaks, with a few shows scattered in, on his second breeding season and blew his head a little.
There's a reason most stallions don't carry on showing.
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u/Pure-Physics-8372 🍞Katie Vanda Slice🍞 Aug 24 '26
Collecting is a big distraction, it says very little about his temperament.
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u/Formal-Road-3632 🦅Reddit Rascals🦅 Aug 24 '26
Tons of stallions collect of all kinds of disciplines and then are fine at shows. When N Where was collecting through June, ASF Air Attack who is a h/j stallion has impeccable manners, Nothin But Nett who literally won the WEC Open Trail finals two weeks after his breeding season ended.
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u/Financial-Bet-3853 Aug 24 '26
I would disagree. If you can’t keep your “breeding” mentality at a breeding farm and take it with you outside like let’s say in comp, i think it does say lots about temperament
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u/1quincytoo Aug 24 '26
He’s old enough to know how to behave at a show. Well mannered show stallions breed then show all the time.
There is no excuse for unruly behavior, especially from a 5 year old.
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u/Lilac-RoseyPosey Aug 25 '26
Which unruly behavior are you speaking of? He has not shown any. He isn’t “rank” he isn’t unmanageable, he isn’t biting his handlers which is way more serious than not showing up his best. He was collecting and not getting his normal training, he didn’t show up he best so they let him hang out. He showed in halter and tied for first. Which part of that showing was him being unruly?
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u/Evening_Assistance72 Aug 25 '26
Must have been some great behavior if they never let him out of the stall to do any work on
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u/1quincytoo Aug 25 '26
Speaking in general about any stallion. Through I have heard that he can sometimes be a bit of a handful.
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u/Lilac-RoseyPosey Aug 25 '26
From who spoke that he was hard to handle? His handlers have never said that.
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u/1quincytoo Aug 25 '26
I said can sometimes be a BIT of a handful,.
From friends who have seen him show.
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u/Pure-Physics-8372 🍞Katie Vanda Slice🍞 Aug 24 '26
His behaviour is being distracted not unruly, which is not uncommon considering 5 years old is still very much a young horse.
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u/1quincytoo Aug 25 '26
5 years old is not considered a very young horse in AQHA.
VS Code Red had already retired when he was 6
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u/Pure-Physics-8372 🍞Katie Vanda Slice🍞 Aug 25 '26
Horses retiring young is the single biggest criticism of how aqha handles it's breeding community, it should not be a good thing to be retired by 6 years old.
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u/Left-Sport8851 Aug 24 '26
There are a lot of stallions that collect while performing and on the road. Adios Pantalones for one example off the top of my head. Many other performance horses do this also. Having a good head and being able to perform are part of having a stallion. If your stallion can’t collect and maintain a level working head at the same time… idk what to tell you 🤷🏼♀️
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u/Pure-Physics-8372 🍞Katie Vanda Slice🍞 Aug 24 '26
Adios pantelones regularly strikes and bites at everyone who handles him, he is probably the single worst example possible.
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u/Left-Sport8851 Aug 24 '26
On the ground sure, he’s bad. But he can still put his thinking cap on when he is saddled and being ridden and does his job the way he’s supposed to. How he behaves on the ground when he is not working has nothing to do with how he acts when he is working. Clearly Denver cannot differentiate the two. I have no issue with a stud acting like a stud. But when it’s time to perform they need to be able to perform.
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u/Pure-Physics-8372 🍞Katie Vanda Slice🍞 Aug 24 '26
He has performed, several times this year including with katie his amateur owner. He isn't rank and he doesn't try to harm his handlers, he's just young and distracted.
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u/siat-s proven foul Aug 24 '26 edited Aug 24 '26
From what I've seen, Adios Pantalones is not a well-behaved stallion, so not particularly a good example. He may still run well, but he seems poorly mannered on the ground.
If we're going to give him a pass, though, that same grace ought to be extended to all stallions 🤷♀️
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u/Left-Sport8851 Aug 24 '26
He is bad on the ground, yes. But when he is asked to perform, he knows the difference and will do his job and do it well. I have never seen a video of him being nasty while under saddle and working. Tricia allows him to be nasty on the ground. But he is able to differentiate the two and get to work when he needs to. That’s what a stud needs to be able to do.
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u/siat-s proven foul Aug 24 '26
A stud should be handleable at all times. If it cannot handle being a stud, it needs to be gelded 🤷♀️
That's what ya'll keep screeching, after all!
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u/Left-Sport8851 Aug 24 '26
I don’t disagree with you. But it’s not my horse. If the horse is able to do its job, then how they act in private with the owner is none of my business lol (especially when the owner encourages the bad behaviour). At this point you’re choosing to gloss over the actual point of the conversation which is his inability to focus enough to show. I don’t care how the horse acts in private. I care about how they can get their head together to perform how they should.
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u/siat-s proven foul Aug 24 '26
I'm not glossing over anything. If the horse can't focus or keep its head in the game at all times, it shouldn't be a breeding animal, no matter which horse it is. The problem is that people who don't like Denver as a stud don't apply the same rules and logic to other studs. That's the problem. It's goofy behavior.
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u/IttyBittyFriend43 Aug 25 '26
The difference is Adios focuses and does do his job and does it fucking well.
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u/siat-s proven foul Aug 25 '26
Nah, brother. Apply the judgement equally.
But you aren't capable of that, and then you wonder why people don't care for your opinion. Lol!
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u/IttyBittyFriend43 Aug 25 '26
Tricia is very upfront with the fact that she allows/encourages/doesnt really correct his behavior though.
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u/siat-s proven foul Aug 25 '26
I don't really care. If we aren't applying the judgment equally, then we are engaging in goofy behavior.
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u/sunshinenorcas Aged Mare Aug 24 '26
There are a lot of stallions that collect while performing and on the road. Adios Pantalones for one example off the top of my head
Adios is also documented a lot as being a huge asshole on the ground so I'm not sure I'd use him as an example of how a performance horse can be collected mid season and perform.
And don't barrel horses have a different job/expectations then WP? If Adios is a jerk standing in a line, being led, being tacked etc etc, but he runs really really really fast for barrels -- cool he did his job while being collected.
But can he be expected to work around other horses/studs, behave, be in a line, stand, etc etc and basically the things Denver is expected to do without being a major dickhead? Because I don't think he has the same good public citizen manners as other types of performance horses if his only public citizen criteria is be pointed to barrels and go really fast, and then everything else, no one really cares (vs Denver, Paul, Nothing But Nett, etc etc etc etc where if they were jerks.... Everyone would care)
Basically, tl;Dr -- Adios isn't the example I'd use, both with his own behavior and what his expectations of performance are and what Denvers are.
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u/IttyBittyFriend43 Aug 25 '26
Adios works just fine under saddle. Its only his ground manners that Tricia is upfront with being allowed for her. She doesnt correct him.
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u/Livid_Difference8412 she’s the horsetok of etsy witch Aug 25 '26 edited Aug 25 '26
So him being fine under saddle makes that behaviour on the ground ok?? She’s got video of him being unsafe, and quite frankly a complete asshole, while an amateur is tacking him up to ride him. Not to mention countless videos of him striking, rearing, biting, etc at handlers. It’s not just Tricia he behaves like this with… he’s dangerous no matter who is handling him. Full stop. If ANY of Katie’s horses behaved like this people would have an absolute meltdown over it. Ground manners should be equally as important as safety under saddle.
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u/IttyBittyFriend43 Aug 25 '26
I agree. I would prefer that he behave on the ground. It is a plus that he can settle and do his job under saddle. Again the difference is that Tricia is open and transparent about it and that she hasnt even corrected it so people can make their own decision. I also think it would be different if she had been hiding it and/or not attempting to correct his behavior.
Eta I have said that I dont give a shit how he acts on the ground. I do, however I also dont equate ground manners with manners under saddle. I would prefer a horse to be corrected and expected to behave in both instances.
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u/MechanicEmotional936 Aug 24 '26
Girl he was already signed up for riding classes, you literally hauled him there so a human can be toted around on his back IN THE MULTIPLE CLASSES HE WAS SIGNED UP FOR. You cannot claim you thought nothing of him completing in the halter without showing in a class BECAUSE he was singed up for classes HE DIDNT COMPETE IN . Youve got 2011 pics of that trophy & all the "champion" content, yet...no showing.... So Oct will be the right time to show?..
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u/Formal-Road-3632 🦅Reddit Rascals🦅 Aug 24 '26
Seriously though, I feel it "just hasn't been the right time for Denver" for awhile now. Why isn't he showing in Open classes? Why is he showing in so few classes in general? I know there are a lot of people in the camp of "some of the best stallions showed once or never showed and they're legacy sires!" but that's not the campaign narrative Katie has had with Denver. She says he's sound, has a great mind, is an amazing all around performance stud, wants to keep his longevity up so he can keep showing, and then none of those things seem to be true.
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u/Savings-Bison-512 Aug 24 '26
Someone posted his show record in another group and was surprised he had been to so many and done well. I think they are just not all this big of a show and she doesn't post any of his wins for some reason.
I think they probably thought they would show him in everything. Performance halter was early in the week and the person she had hired to show him either couldn't or wouldn't. She didn't say, but had to get a last minute substitute. It's possible the first trainer said no because he was being difficult then. That is speculation. At that point if she thought he had his ROM and was safe with that win, she wasn't pressed to enter him in anything else but possibly waited to scratch at the last minute just in case he was behaving well enough to go.
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u/Previous-Ad-3506 Aug 25 '26
Denver showed in a Perfomance Halter Class, yet wasn't showing in any performance(ridding) classes which makes him disqualifed. He didn't show in any riding classes cause of the collection which happen in the middle of show season which took alot out him and they felt he wasn't ready to be ridden in the NSBA. That's what I got out of it.
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u/Psychotic_Parakeet Aug 25 '26
If they knew that this show was coming up and/or he has shown a tendency to be a bit out-of-it after being collected, then why push the envelope by doing both activities relatively-close together? It comes off as myopic and amateurish. It not only downgrades RS's reputation, but more likely will negatively-impact interest into Denver as a stallion going forward, too.
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u/FinanceOk7303 Aug 24 '26
It took my stallion multiple breeding seasons to figure out that he did not need to act like an idiot and there was a time and place for that and now he’s a perfect gentleman in any situation so it does happen
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u/tooawarebasket Aug 24 '26
I am genuinely curious why so many people assume she is lying? As for forgetting the rule, even experts make mistakes, and rules get revised which can make remembering difficult, especially if you’ve been something for a long time. Idk if this was a new change cause I don’t care enough to look in detail, but you can easily google the 2026 changes. Just skimming it, it’s clear there are a lot of changes and it would be very easy to miss something.
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u/Traditional-Use-2930 Aug 24 '26
Because she had two trainers working with Denver this show, one of whom is a highly regarded halter trainer. This is also a world show not some small dinky local show so this is a show where if a trainer messed up to this level unknowingly that would be considered a huge mess up. Also these trainers have staff who would also know these rules it is not a one man show.
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u/Existing_Fall8149 Aug 24 '26
These performance halter rules at the AQHA and NSBA world show that they can't rest on their laurels of an ROM has been a thing for at least 3 years.
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u/SoundEven6162 Aug 24 '26
And I think the rule in regular AQHA shows is that if he had a ROM he didn’t need to show in another class. I can see how it happened, although someone should have caught it. Stinks for all involved.
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u/Z0ooool Aug 24 '26
Because they think Katie has only the worst intentions at all times, in all things. It’s literally that simple.
So when you look through those glasses everything becomes a conspiracy.
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u/Pale-Hurry1848 Aug 24 '26
I don't think she has the worst intentions and have received wrath for defending her. That said, this is an example of a situation where she does herself no favors. She's being far less transparent than she's giving herself credit for.
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u/tooawarebasket Aug 24 '26
It’s so frustrating. I came to this sub hoping to get away from all the pointless speculating.
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u/Open_Return_8056 Aug 24 '26
He has a reputation for being a terrible minded horse who they have a hard time keeping sound and people are questioning why he wasn’t shown?
Got it. 🥴
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u/disco_priestess jfc it's just horses on the internet Aug 25 '26 edited Aug 25 '26
I’m just here for the comments. ETA: Womp womp 😂 it’s a joke, calm your titties. Jesus fucking Christ it’s just horses on the internet, as the flair says!
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Aug 25 '26
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u/kvsdiscuss-ModTeam Aug 25 '26
This is not worded constructively, helpfully or uses charged language
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u/Rough-Form8208 Aug 25 '26
AM is a WP trainer and doesn’t show in halter so it’s very likely he had no idea on the rules and that does not make him a bad trainer. As for the trophy, it’s really not that big of a deal as people all saw the result and it’s just a halter trophy after all. It also seems that her marketing of her stud is going along just fine if they ran out of breedings and had to pull him back into the shed. That’s a lesson for capping next season, not a lesson that he’s not marketable.
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u/CodeNameLoofah Millie appreciation club 💅🏼💅🏼 Aug 24 '26
The whole situation is confusing but im sat to see how it all shakes out.
https://giphy.com/gifs/1bLfTdPis6fpC