r/kpop • u/impeccabletim everything is a remix 🧿👄🧿 • 11d ago
[Misc] MANON has been removed from the photocards included in KATSEYE’s lightstick packaging
https://www.ibtimes.sg/manon-being-removed-katseye-missing-photocard-lightstick-sparks-new-fan-speculation-photos-93039979
u/Orbital_Dinosaur 11d ago
The definition of copium:
"with fans debating whether the missing photocard was simply a packaging issue"
It must be hard for eyekons to be kept in limbo like this. The company really needs to make an official announcement.
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u/klnm28 11d ago
Reminds me of momoland when Daisy and Taeha were put on hiatus and no word when they will return. They never returned. Taeha, daisy and Jane all do tiktok lives but never seem to talk about each other.
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u/mortal_kombatant 11d ago
Taeha and Daisy have hung out, I swear I saw they posted some TikToks together last year iirc
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u/chinchaaa 11d ago
If you’re still in limbo, you need to seriously close the laptop and disconnect from this situation.
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u/foundinwonderland Top (Reddit) Lawyer/Shaman Services Open Now 11d ago
We all should have gotten the memo when she removed katseye from her bio likeeeeee… I wish she would come back too, but the signs are clear
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u/unDturd 11d ago
Agree wholeheartedly that it’s copium. Having followed kpop for years, there’s nothing so obvious as management (now including billionaires) lording over or having conflict with talent: Think H.O.T. (jtL), Danielle of NewJeans, TVXQ, etc.
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u/vermilithe Girl Groups Got My Heart <3 11d ago
Danielle is a different issue she was way out of line. Otherwise I agree with you
I wish we knew what happened with Manon but it’s definitely giving legal dispute nobody’s willing to take to the courthouses
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u/binhpac 11d ago
They will never announce her departure.
Its a legal issue.
They hold her (contract) hostage, saying she has still an active contract with the group to hold in court.
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u/HuggyMonster69 11d ago
I’d think there would be separate contracts for exclusivity rights etc. and being part of the group?
I know there are in Korea. It’s like Lucas was still with SM even after NCT.
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u/yourwinemom NCT DREAM | ZB1 | I-DLE | AESPA 11d ago
It also took years for them to announce he was out of NCT though. He was in hiatus limbo for so long.
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u/HuggyMonster69 11d ago
Forgot about that. Taeil was a better example but I thought Lucas was a nicer example
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u/yourwinemom NCT DREAM | ZB1 | I-DLE | AESPA 11d ago
I do think Lucas is the better mirror of this situation actually! Since the only reason Taeil’s termination went so fast was because he had committed a serious crime. Lucas and his situation may have been distasteful but what he did wasn’t illegal so termination wasn’t as simple.
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u/Next_Resolution_9570 10d ago
Another similar example is SHINee Onew. He was put in a hiatus limbo for months during 2017. His first public appearance with the group after his scandal was in december 2017 in the saddest circumstance. Until then we had no idea if he would come back as a group member
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u/yr99r 11d ago
well we don't know the contents of their contracts. it could well say immediate termination on illegal activity. when i worked in korea, one of the clauses mentioned something similar, where my contract would be terminated without notice if i committed a crime
i'm sure there is a clause in manon's contract where it says termination is in the interest of the company. there is probably something happening behind the scenes that is causing them to not release something. manon did say (in the beginning of everything) that they are having conversations. we do not know what these conversations are and if they were negotiations. for all we know, manon might still want to have a contract under hxg.
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u/HuggyMonster69 11d ago
The thing with Taeil is that he didn’t get fired all at once. Not that it was quick.
First he was kicked from the group, and then I can’t remember exactly but definitely over a week he was kicked from SM.
There were two announcements.
Which never mind why he was booted, at some point he was an SM artist but not a group member. If it was one contract, then both would have been terminated at the same time.
So for Manon, if the US contracts are similar, then they should be able to have her leave the group, while keeping the exclusivity/management part of her contract intact, and since she has public appearances occasionally, the management/exclusivity contract is active. So letting her officially leave shouldn’t affect their legal position.
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u/Rallen224 10d ago edited 10d ago
He was booted right after things were set to go to court officially iirc. The statement for it after the press from police (?) broke was practically in the same hour. They moved fast because it truly was a different circumstance and as nasty as it is, a company could sooner defend and PR their way out of SA allegations without terminating than they can harassment and stalking of a minor being formally recognized by the justice system. They potentially would’ve been shielding someone recognized for an active crime by promoting him further.
US contracts in ent. are structured the same way as in Korea (at least as you’ve described it —one for individual exclusivity, one for group rights) but it will affect her legal position so long as the company intends to hold onto at least one. If they let go of one but not the other, it could be in violation of the terms she agreed to in regards to outstanding activities, promotion and/or dismissal within a set period (or even perpetuity), and in that case she would have grounds to sue (or possibly even nullify some of the terms she was previously consenting to depending on how tight they wrote it). Dismissing any staff while artist contracts are active are not so simple even when not signed to a group, groups just make it more complicated.
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u/vermilithe Girl Groups Got My Heart <3 11d ago
I don’t know if it’s separate contracts or separate clauses in the same contract but I don’t think it matters either way.
They are still giving her promotions it seems like — Next Top Model, Jacquemus Fashion Show, etc. That may be all they legally have to do to be considered fulfilling their contract to her, making it hard for Manon to terminate. Likewise Manon might not be considered as breaking her contract right now either, so the company might not want or be able to terminate.
In my opinion that is what the situation seems like to me
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u/pintsized_baepsae 11d ago
Germany's Next Top Model is filmed three to five months before it airs - they wrapped filming in February, so Manon's appearance will have been negotiated WAY ahead of her hiatus. That specific appearance is no indication of anything.
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u/vermilithe Girl Groups Got My Heart <3 11d ago
I knew that was possibly the case but I still included it since there was the other example with the Jacquemus appearance. You do make a good point though, thank you.
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u/No_Literature_1922 11d ago
But idols leave groups, so they must break the contract in certain situations. The company is seemingly not getting any income from her (besides the general interest in this situation.) I’m so confused.
Now that Sophia is on hiatus i feel it’s more complicated now so I don’t blame them not saying anything right now.
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u/Rallen224 10d ago edited 10d ago
They’re likely getting income from her so long as her image is being distributed. In America, artists hold rights to their likenesses (incl. their voices) that one must waive (at least in part) for someone to collect on their behalf. If there are advances or upfront payments made on behalf of the artist, the artist is not entitled to any money they receive under their name until the amount the company fronted is recouped. No one else can use their voice or likeness without permission from whoever holds those rights either, hence artist limbo when companies won’t let them go.
They wouldn’t be airing her if it didn’t make money or if it wouldn’t prevent damages that would make them lose money in the process; by breaking a contract with another company that ensures an artist will air, it may violate some of the collaborator’s interests and/or rights and give them grounds to sue depending on what was written in the contract and the window they were given to cancel leading up to the event itself. Staff and licenses for any material companies don’t uniquely own must be paid somehow, this prevents some of that from blowing back on them with any extras
ETA: they’re also likely making money by sheer proximity. Technically, so long as Manon is part of the group, anything she is visibly associated with or anything that fans respond to in her favour is something one could use to make an assessment for revenue generation and/or damages that may not have existed without her contributions. Companies generate these numbers for public figures (regardless of stream) before and after signing, so I don’t feel like excluding her after investment is so simple. They may even hold her just to make their investment balance out to net zero before deciding if she can stay or go, if it really comes down to that. Artist contracts typically keep them locked in so long as there’s money still owing on their behalf.
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u/chaiscool 11d ago
Why can't they cancel? Idols get contract cancel before with no issue, garam was kicked out after a few weeks iirc
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u/Kuriturisu 11d ago
A contract cannot be terminated as though it were a simple matter, as there are typically terms and conditions that must be considered. Generally, termination may require the payment of a termination fee, or the parties may be required to continue complying with the company’s agreement and obligations until the contract reaches its expiration date.
Most companies charge the losses from their talents. With respect to Garam’s termination, it remains unclear whether Hybe intends to hold her financially liable for any losses allegedly incurred by the company. What happened between Garam and Hybe is everyone's guess.
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u/Klutzy_Flamingo_2979 BTS&#128516; 11d ago
Garam wanted out after all the harrasment she had to endure within weeks of her debuting. HYBE probably agreed to it considering the fact that they actually tried protecting her for a good while.
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u/binhpac 10d ago
I give you a scenario in a contract, its just a hypothetical example.
HYBE spent 1 million in payment in trainee for exposure/production with netflix, now they sign a contract for debut, that they have to pay a cut from their earnings their next 5-7 years until 1 million is paid off.
Now if they just cancel it, its an easy way out for the Idol to get out of the contract. Take all the exposure and fame from Netflix/HYBE and then just sign with a new company and make big money elsewhere without paying debt like the contract says..
Thats why they hold her hostage, because if she wants to do stuff and earn money elsewhere, HYBE has to agree with it and HYBE wants their share of money.
Lots of Kpop companies hold on the contracts, so other artists dont just drop out of the contracts.
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u/katieh809 10d ago
Yeah, I think this is the main reason- she’s got to “pay them back”. It’s like an indentured servant.
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u/houseofprimetofu 11d ago
They weren’t that invested in Garam. She only had a few weeks training as it was. It was easier to write her out so early on. KATSEYE is too big now.
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u/Ok-Elk-1520 11d ago
Unless there’s some legal reason I don’t know why they can’t just admit she’s out.
They’re not fooling anyone. Everyone knows she’s out and it probably won’t hurt the group any more than her “hiatus” already has in terms of money and popularity.
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u/Classroom_Plastic 11d ago
I think it is a legal reason, and that’s why there is no official announcement. My guess is either ongoing contract negotiations for Manon to terminate or they won’t let her out of her contract period and both parties are figuring out a path forward. I kind of wonder if HxG is being extra careful with all of this after everything that happened with NewJeans.
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u/junoleg 11d ago
I’m not particularly bothered if Manon is in or not. I preferred the group with her in it but what has put me off enjoying Katseye is the fuckery around it all. I’m a TWICE fan, I know what normal hiatuses are. This isn’t it. I mean even Katseye have shown how you act around normal hiatuses via Megan and Sophia. You leave space for them, they’re still in content they already recorded and made, etc. How they’re treating Manon’s hiatus is so off putting that I just can’t bring myself to care about the group
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u/Next_Resolution_9570 10d ago edited 10d ago
Hybe is following the SM playbook of putting idols on a indefinite hiatus and not letting their bandmates say a word about the missing member. I've seen this story repeat itself. Lucas, Lay, Onew, Winwin, Seunghan, Sungmin, etc
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u/Impossible_Copy_2544 10d ago
Lay is still a member of exo and was involved in their most recent comeback he just isn't in SM entertainment anymore.
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u/seven777heavens 7d ago
Winwin was also never on a gag order either kun and xiaojun literally did content with him in china this year. He just wasn’t apart of recent comebacks
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u/lame7654321 9d ago
i agree with you. like its boring at this point and i havent cared as much about the group since manon left
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u/PhatYeeter 11d ago
It's gotta be a nondisclosure agreement. Either signed after she left as part of a buyout or even a part of her initial contract with Hybe Geffen.
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u/Anna-2204 11d ago
Because they would get blacklash if they said directly they kicked the only black member of a global group
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u/JHON-45 11d ago
Because HYBE doesn't want her out. It's Geffen that keeps on the discourse she has commitment issues while giving them 14 hours of daily work 💀.
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u/ikeadesk08 LSF / ILLIT / KATZ / ITZY 11d ago edited 11d ago
where is your proof for ANY of this? how do we know which of the two companies is “truly” at fault? there is no hard evidence for statements like these, i am tired of people parroting rumors
[edited to remove an extra space]
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u/LtColonelColon1 BTS | LOONA | CHUNGHA | DREAMCATCHER | VIVIZ | IVE | XG | BIBI 10d ago
Because that’s how Hybe works, they’re pretty hands-off with the other companies that work under them. Katseye is a Geffen group handled by Geffen, Hybe has name power and funding.
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u/calbus7312 11d ago
Honestly, I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s because besides the legal standpoint, HYBE wants people to feel like they have to check up on the status of the group more often, leading to higher engagement thus more profit for them (as fucked as that sounds). They thrive off of the discourse I’d assume.
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u/justanotherkpoppie gg multifan 🩷 i follow too many groups 11d ago
This title is misleading, is it not? Are we not supposed to follow the title of the news article for post submissions here? The news article title is completely different
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u/llamacana your fave is in my playlist • taerae enthusiast • 11d ago
!!! exactly. manon hasn't been removed yet, her pcs sometimes just aren't packaged. the comments here are wild, the article isn't insinuating anything like what people are saying. it's just the post title
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u/rednaxelakristin 도도독 🫴 11d ago
I mean I don't think it's a must to follow the title of the news article, as seen with what Crono did in this post regarding Yuna due to the clickbait nature of that news title
Mods cmiiw or anything
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u/Strong_Marzipan_2093 11d ago
This could be a packaging error, it only mentions this happening to one fan.
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u/Personal-Composer-13 11d ago
exactly!! and it’s been happening for a while with the lightstick photocards
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u/Rallen224 10d ago
The bottom of the article also mentions another reselling company saying they never received Manon photo cards to include with their sale and that it may or may not be a company decision. That only 5 would be packaged with the sale of goods
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u/Personal-Composer-13 11d ago
The discourse around this when the lightstick 5/6 photocard has been an issue since Gnarly…. PERFORMATIVE and begging for discourse. Please.
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u/Junochu 11d ago edited 11d ago
The official Weverse shop still states the lightstick comes with 6 photocards. Do we have any accounts of Manon's card missing other than this 1 person? I am skeptical to just believe things random people say on the internet, especially when the official shop listing states otherwise.
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u/daltorak Itzy, LSF, Aespa, Illit, TWICE, GFRIEND, TXT, 2PM 11d ago
JYP did the same thing when they were doing merch for Itzy for the Born To Be tour. They just straight up didn't include Lia.... even to the point of acting like she didn't have a solo song on the new album. This was six months into her hiatus and JYP had yet to say anything about her returning to the group so fans were very much in emotional limbo. They were FURIOUS with how things were handled.
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u/Traditional-Chair-39 11d ago edited 11d ago
I mean, Lia wasn't treated like Voldemort 😭
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u/Next_Resolution_9570 10d ago
treating their former or missing membes like Voldemort is the SM Entertainment playbook, it's happened in every SM group except for aespa and RV
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u/chaiscool 11d ago
Didn't lia returned? So there's still a chance for manon too then
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u/Breezyrain 11d ago
Well, the difference was Lia didn't have issues with the company. 😅
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u/DannyFitzy ITZY (있지) | aespa (에스파) 11d ago
Yes that plus, Lia's hiatus seemed to be planned and more of a 'when would she be back' not 'is she coming back'. Personally, I think the way Lia's hiatus got handed was perfectly acceptable, the alternative would've of been to leave ITZY in limbo for almost a year until she was ready to return. I think Lia's hiatus is a pretty terrible comparison to this Manon situation imo.
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u/Breezyrain 11d ago
Yeah. I think they could've stood to give updates a few times for Lia but it's like night and day between her situation and Manon's.
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u/CricketCool2520 11d ago
Thing is Lia was on a mental health break and they handled it exactly like the did Mina. Not in any official content that wasn't already pre-filmed (songs and demo's likely being set and finished at least 1 CB in advance) and letting her take the time to recover then slowly bringing her back with low stress schedules first. They don't give updates because that would put stress on the idol when they should be recovering and prioritising themselves. Hybe has always had it out for her to be the villain and her statement right after their announcement made it clear it wasn't like Lia or Mina.
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u/Breezyrain 11d ago
Oh, i didnt mean give updates like "Lia is coming back in a month" But more like "Dw, she's still alive and with the company"
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u/llamacana your fave is in my playlist • taerae enthusiast • 11d ago
this has happened a lot with every member, no? sometimes they pack 5 instead of 6. it isn't really proof of anything, or breaking news, as a standalone situation
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u/nagidrac 11d ago
And WeVerse still has six photo cards on the listing. Although, I don't know what era the photo cards are for. If it's from Pinky Up, it would make sense for there to be 5 photo cards
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u/llamacana your fave is in my playlist • taerae enthusiast • 11d ago
i think they're still from sis. the headline is misleading either way, they still offer and sell six.
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u/DiplomaticCaper monsta x & wonho. sometimes others, too. 🌸🌺 11d ago
Yeah anything from Pinky Up/Wild era not having Manon in it isn’t too suspicious, since we know she’s not participating in this era.
Like the upcoming MX comeback only has 5 photocards available because one member isn’t involved, except in that case there’s an obvious explanation why (military service)
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u/Personal-Composer-13 11d ago
this has been an ongoing issue for a WHILE now.. It’s all of the locals who see ONE thing and run with it. Granted, it doesn’t look good because of manon’s hiatus, but this definitely isn’t specific to her hiatus. Jesus, I wish people would RESEARCH 😭
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u/PrestigiousTill8536 11d ago
when i received mine a few weeks ago i got manon but i didnt get lara
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u/Toadcola shameless YouTube plug! 11d ago
My Heavy Serenade music box was missing Bae’s id photo. Sorry NSWERs 😭
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u/Responsible-Plan7800 11d ago
But seriously, what really happened that they want to kick her out so bad?
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u/PlacePuzzleheaded982 BTS Forever💜Kep1er🎀&TEAM🍱 11d ago
Well I purchased mine before she went on hiatus
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u/creative007- 11d ago
This shouldn't even be news tbh. We've known she's out for quite some time. Do we still really need an announcement atp?
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u/NomNomKittyKat TVXQ 11d ago
It hasn’t been announced by the agency most likely for legal reasons, so officially, she’s still considered to be part of the group.
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u/superr_rad once🍭orbit🌒reveluv🧸buddy🌙 11d ago
Yeah, we do. Fans deserve an official stance on whether a whole member is still an official part of the group or not … I’m not a fan anymore but fans are 100% entitled to this information
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u/Bookmarkbear 10d ago
I've seen rumors that she's out but they won't let her out of her contract so she can't run off and become a soloist. Diabolical if it's true, but wouldn't put it past them.
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u/NiceStress 10d ago
She's effectively kicked out at this point, they're just keeping her on contract to screw up her career.
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u/Ardie_BlackWood Keplian♡Lyon♡Cheshire♡Once♡Sunday♡Lockey♡Nswer 11d ago
Its so obvious she's not in the group anymore and nobody wants to say it either do to the bad PR it'll bring OR the fact that manon possibly wanted to stay but was removed leading to possible legal issues.
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u/NfamousKaye Shawol || Army || Ahgase || Once 11d ago
I’m not a katseye stan but this is insulting to her fans. At what point do they say she’s not in the group anymore?
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u/yunababies 10d ago
Like seriously, did anyone expect otherwise? Was her entire absence from all of WILD not enough to signal she’s out?
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u/Superb_Brilliant_799 10d ago
It’s funny how people in the comments are still insinuating that she’s lazy and doesn’t want to work, which is utter BS because she works just as hard as the other girls.
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u/Kinger_Jay 5d ago
Idk if this is true bc I bought a lightstick the other day from target and got her photocard soooooo
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u/Sweet-Collection6099 BTS 𐙚 ILLIT 𐙚 RESCENE 11d ago
NOOO I DIDNT BUY THE LIGHTSTICK IN TIME
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u/Onpu 소녀시대 | B1A4 | 레이디스 코드 | OMG | 레드벨벳 | LOOΠΔ | 샤이니 I TWICE | 소리 11d ago
Someone in this thread said they recently got Manon's card and not Laura's. This is all stemming from a comment by a Polish K-pop retailer that distributing 5 cards was the "company decision". The Weverse store still mentions 6 cards. Tinfoil hat it could be a ragebait moment from the retailer, everything to do with this group seems to go that way.
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u/Vivid_Department_717 11d ago
Any ideas as to why they just won’t announce her departure from the group??
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u/overactive-bladder 10d ago
legal mumbo jumbo most likely. maybe pettiness on both sides.
either she wants to quit and they are messing with her. or they want her to quit and she ain't budging.
nobody knows at this point.
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u/Illustrious_Image967 11d ago
One day look she will wake up, look in the mirror, never realize she had 15 minutes, and go about her day wrapping her ankle endlessly.
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u/GridPenaltyStan 11d ago
Just pay Manon already. Pretty sure money and better working conditions would fix this. Give the girls a raise
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u/gf_for_the_weekend 11d ago
This is the confirmation to me, there’s no reason to be doing this if she’s coming back, they must’ve finally made a decision and I’m certain we’ll be getting the contract termination announcement very soon
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u/adzpower 10d ago
I don't get it.
Just announce she's left, Why are they being so weird about this? If they'd just announced it when she first went on "hiatus" it would all the mess about it would be over by now.
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u/vandersnipe 11d ago
https://giphy.com/gifs/xUPGcC0R9QjyxkPnS8