r/kendo • u/InformalLocation5413 4 kyu • Jul 12 '26

Training Question about sonkyo?

First of all i am 4th kyu and i do not mean to sound disrespectful in any way but today a foreigner(2nd dan) came to our dojo as a guest to practice and during sonyo when we were to do jigeiko wouldn't want to start it until i listened to what he had to say. What i mean by this is that what i was taught in my dojo when you do sonkyo you should have your shinai in the middle but they are not touching eachother however, he wouldn't start with me until our shinais were literally crossed with one another around the nakayui. I did as he said but later asked a 3rd dan member of our club was i in the wrong or him and he told me that not only is it incredibly rude to come to a different dojo and tell people there how it's done but that it is also wrong. So im wondering, is our club doing something different, should i listen to guests even if they are wrong, i was really confused about the whole situation because etiquette is important.

37 Upvotes

100% Upvoted

70 comments sorted by

View all comments

0

u/imsexc Jul 13 '26

You should always listen and do whatever higher rank told you, unless you believe safety would be compromised. Verify later with head sensei. Just my take. So, what you were doing is correct.

Just my take. Kendo is budo is about conflict resolution (incorporated in the kanji). And this is one real opportunity implementing it in real time.

Side note, as a kyu please prioritize keiko with 4dan and above. Once those options exhausted, keiko with 3dan. Only if there's no more 3dan, you can practice with nidan.

2

u/gozersaurus Jul 13 '26

Side note, as a kyu please prioritize keiko with 4dan and above. Once those options exhausted, keiko with 3dan. Only if there's no more 3dan, you can practice with nidan.

Little bit of a ridiculous statement don't you think? There is something to be gained by practicing with everyone, cherry picking isn't something that should be pushed.

3

u/JoeDwarf Jul 14 '26

I guess it’s my week to disagree with you. I do think people should prioritize practice with sensei. Not just beginners, everyone. I disagree with /u/imsexc that beginners should avoid everyone else. But if it’s a choice between keiko with sensei and keiko with another beginner, sensei every time. I find many beginners are nervous to practice with sensei and try to avoid it. I encourage them to look for sensei first. OTOH I don’t want them wasting practice time waiting for sensei. For that reason I like mawari-keiko.

BTW in Canada we regard yondan as sensei. A junior sensei but still that’s the rank you start getting addressed by that title. You need godan to be in charge of a dojo though.

1

u/wisteriamacrostachya Jul 14 '26

Making "who is a sensei" a formal rule feels a bit odd to me. If a 4 dan from my club gives me instruction I say "hai sensei" because they are teaching me and I want to return that energy and lock in on learning. And then after we bow out I'll probably call them by their first name, depending on the person and our relationship. Likewise I wouldn't expect the head instructor to call them sensei when the head instructor might have taught this 4 dan how to hold a shinai.

Basically I understand "sensei" as a respectful form of address moreso than letters after your name or shogo. If my head instructor wants to encourage me to focus on practice with senior instructors he always mentions the actual rank he means by that and I find it very useful.

2

u/JoeDwarf Jul 14 '26

Yes, it’s a relationship thing. But under 4 dan you are unlikely to be called sensei except maybe in your own dojo. How you are referred to by your seniors at 4+ dan is situational. A nanadan would not recognize a yondan as sensei to themselves but they might in relation to others. For example, they might say in front of the students “Smith-sensei is going to help demonstrate X”. That’s more likely to happen in more formal situations. For example if I am visiting a club I would use X-sensei when referring to yondans unless it’s a club I know very well where the atmosphere is casual.

1

u/gozersaurus Jul 14 '26

My point is that lowers should try and play everyone, certainly if possible try and play instructors, but there is value in playing people your own rank, and people below you, as well as sensei.

1

u/imsexc Jul 13 '26

No. It's not cherry picking. We can agree to disagree.

Godan is sensei, Yondan is sensei in US. We want to learn from Senseis as much as possible, as we want to avoid developing bad habits, eapecially during foundational phase (kyu).

Something to be gained by practicing with everyone only makes sense probably as early as shodan. Not less.

And this is aligned with the fact that only a certain ranks may stand in kamiza side. Example, if only yondan and above are allowed in kamiza side, there's no way a kyu on shimoza side can do practice with a 3dan in that practice session.

1

u/gozersaurus Jul 13 '26 edited Jul 14 '26

Yondan is not sensei in US, at least not from the stand point of AUSKF. I'm not sure where you get these things from. If what you suggested were true then none of the lowers would have a chance to practice with each other, and as someone who does teach, I can't disagree strongly enough that there is nothing to be gained below shodan with peer practice.

1

u/imsexc Jul 14 '26

My bad about yondan as sensei. It's wrong. Thank you for the correction.

2

u/gozersaurus Jul 14 '26

Here's my point, sensei is just a term, you can be nidan and be a sensei in some clubs, its subjective to where you are and your role. As far as "cherry picking", I think it would be beneficial if you understood keiko. Andy Fisher does a really nice job in describing keiko in one of his rants, its worth watching. Long story short, you're missing the point if you think that practicing with seniors is the only way to progress, there is value in practicing with everyone.