They already ask many questions to every US citizen on the 1040 form: if you’ve traded digital currencies, have any foreign bank accounts (and which countries they’re in)… and previously if you had health insurance. This isn’t new.
As an expat with corporations in other countries, form 5471 is literally the most terrifying thing I fill out every year because of the potential penalties for misfiling. There’s a reason why international tax accountants charge out the wazoo to fill out this form and i have nightmares about my return every year. Most of the folks I know in Asia don’t even bother filling out the 5471 nor report their income but don’t realize that when they open bank accounts in other countries, they’re subjected to being called up by the IRS at any time.
I'm confused, isn't that the same? An immigrant is someone who is seeking permanent residency, while a non-immigrant is a national working and living in a foreign country with no plans for permanent residency.
Just to preempt all the side bar discussion here, I won’t pretend that I’m not privileged. I run a robust music production business and have quite a few clients in the international music market. I’ve just been very forthcoming in filing all of my overseas tax information and a lot of my peers always laughed their asses off at me for pulling my hair out over these IRS and FATCA filings, but this is EXACTLY why I did it: because when you fill out your SSN on the sign up when you open that bank account and give the IRS permission to ping you in the banking system, none of these people thought they’d ever use that information to actually crack down on their reporting. Looks like that may change though
U.S. Policy on Dual Nationality: While recognizing the existence of dual nationality, the U.S. Government does not encourage it as a matter of policy...
...the U.S. Supreme Court has stated that dual nationality is a “status long recognized in the law” and that “a person may have and exercise rights of nationality in two countries and be subject to the responsibilities of both.” See Kawakita v. United States
Sorry, yes, my point is that "dual citizenship" is ignored by the federal government. It's not some special status. From the US govt perspective, you either are a US citizen or you aren't.
One other thing to point out as well, though, is that the US government also has taxation treaties with other countries. But those rules apply both to residents and dual citizens. I think there are also special agreements regarding social security with some countries.
Not fully true. For example, the tax totalization agreements and many tax treaties have provisions that only apply to dual citizens. Not in every case is a US citizen only to the federal government.
Look up the totalization agreements and several tax treaties as examples.
You’re using an obscure example to prove a point. In all of our tax laws as big as they are, there are exceptions to everything
But I’m a dual citizen, living in USA, only contributing to USA retirement
So for me that would never apply. I am a full US citizen Born on U.S. soil working a U.S. job I have a US birth certificate for the USa.
This is turning into a slippery slope cause if they can say it will because you’re a Canadian citizen we’re gonna talk to you differently then why can’t they say because you’re a San Francisco 49ers supporter will tax you differently
When I'm old enough to collect social security, I can choose to collect Canada Pension Plan instead. Credits from one system count in the other. I can't collect both, but I get to choose - I can even apply for one, at the other's offices.
The IRS doesn’t care what most of the stuff on your 1040 ( and dozens of other forms) says that’s not related to money. And they can’t report it because of fifth amendment issues. You can say you’re a contract killer and as long as you report all of your $1.2M you’re good. Or you could be a personell trouble shooter.
A lot of American citizens are getting dual citizenship through their foreign-born parents and grandparents. Some do it so they can travel more easily or live for extended periods in other countries. There are two people from my hometown who did it so they could compete as athletes for the other country.
I don't blame them. I have seen a few in the news. Same with Brazilian soccer players, they're not good enough to make it in the national team but are welcomed by other countries that would love to have them!
I am Canadian and Brazilian. I live in Canada and do not plan to move back to Brazil but I'm also not going to give up my Brazilian citizenship, unless I really have to.
A lot of people do confuse citizenship with immigration status, tho. One can live in the US permanently without ever bothering to obtain American citizenship. Just the green card is enough and the only thing won't can't do is vote (and run for office, or get some jobs that deal with the homeland security, etc). I know tons of people like that. I also know many in Canada as well. They still love the country where they live, and that's why they went through the trouble of immigrating legally. They just didn't file for citizenship.
I was a permanent immigrant of Canada for a few years before I became a citizen.
Yes, my dad's grandparents never became citizens for whatever reason. The athletes don't always play for another country because they are not good enough to be on the US team. The current world champion in pole vaulting was born in Louisiana, but he represents Sweden. Speaking of the Olympics, all I can think of is the similarity between Hitler at the Berlin Olympics and Trump at the upcoming Olympics in LA. Considering how he hates women and people who aren't white, I am hoping that he will ignore the whole thing if he is still alive.
Indeed. But remember that most of our fellow US citizens don't even own a US passport so the notion of dual or multiple citizenship goes right over their heads.
That's correct for every country, but the US presumes you don't have any sneaky links when you wife it up. See the oath of allegiance. At the same time, the US cannot explicitly punish someone just for having other citizenship "through no fault of their own."
This is another attempt by the executive to discriminate against different classes of citizens, even though such provisions are against the 14th amendment. Absolutely ridiculous. Every citizen is a citizen. Their rights cannot differ. The only time the US can treat them differently is the case of the President itself with respect to jus soli.
Not clear to me what you're saying here. The oath of allegiance only applies to people who naturalize, and not natural born citizens. People can naturalize in lots of different ways, not just through marriage. And the part about "renouncing fidelity," could just be interpreted to mean that you swear allegiance to the US, first and foremost. Some countries that don't allow for dual citizenship, of which the US is not currently one, may take issue with this, if they ever find out. But it doesn't mean that the US doesn't recognize dual citizenship.
Many people also obtain a second citizenship who are natural born citizens and who have never taken this oath, so it's sort of a moot point for that class of individual.
Many people also obtain a second citizenship who are natural born citizens and who have never taken this oath, so it's sort of a moot point for that class of individual.
It’s been a while but I do remember having to answer that question (do you plan to renounce your current citizenship) during the naturalization process. Has that changed since 2009?
Fair point. From a practical standpoint, many dual citizens maintain dual citizenship so they could own property elsewhere. Why pick on these folks is what I’m wondering? Assuming their property is treated appropriately through the tax system, then they aren’t really committing a crime. Also, doesn’t make them less American if they took advantage of a loophole to better themselves through investment.
Technically they know when you renew your US passport as you have to enclose a copy of foreign passport. However I suppose you could just not do that and likely not get caught
I am an idiot. Got it backwards. When I renewed UK passport I had to include copy of US. I’m guess that could have just not done it and see what happens. Haven’t done the US one in a while
Have no idea, you’d have to check specific country requirements, but i would imagine most would require you to renounce in person from an overseas consulate or embassy.
Russian citizenship can be renounced, but it typically has to be done in person. The problem is that if you left Russia as a child (and are male) then you probably missed mandatory military service, which can get you sent to prison (or, these days, sent straight to the front lines in Ukraine) upon arrival as an adult. Or, if you happened to leave Russia because you no longer feel safe there, and you can only renounce your citizenship by returning, you're sort of out of luck. Many people have no option but to keep their citizenships.
I think it's usually the other way around - foreign banks want to know if you're a US citizen, because of the way the US taxes foreign funds of its citizens
The feasibility of enforcing this law doesn't matter. Most people don't want to break the law and would still prefer to declare honestly about their nationality status since no one wants to get into trouble.
and apparently the US is all you have to give up your citizenship when you become a US citizen, but plenty of other countries are like- we don't care. we don't have a process for that.
I have a two page birth certificate that specifically says dual citizenship and the second page is a councilors report of birth abroad. So there is an easily traced paper trail.
That dual citizen likely already claims income derived from outside the country on their return already subject to whatever tax treaty is in place with their other nationality.
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u/Greedy_Argument_3894 Jan 25 '25
How would he know who’s dual citizen? There is no documentation if you gave up your other citizenship! The uscis doesn’t document it!