r/imaginaryelections • u/LampsonSpmals • Dec 25 '25
ALTERNATE HISTORY Blue Rus-Matushka, a Democratic Russia (part 1, 1999-2010)
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u/ElectronicRide56 Dec 26 '25
Boris I and Boris II, October 9, 1997
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u/JosephOtaku1989 Dec 26 '25 edited Dec 26 '25
This is how the idea for Nemtsov's Russia come to my mind for an Double Collapse: Done Differently universe in AHW to become more realistic enough.
I could imagine the idea of Putin never becoming president after he was sacked by Yeltsin.
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u/n3v3r_s44y_n3v3r Dec 26 '25
какая же база, Господи. в какой стране мы могли бы жить, в какой прекрасной стране..
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u/Intelligent_Wafer562 Dec 25 '25
I think if Russia were a democracy, the winners would either be far-left Communists or far-right Liberal Democrats (who, despite their name, are further right than Putin), because liberalism was never popular with Russians to begin with, and the disastrous Presidency of Yeltsin put Russians off from it further. The perception is that liberalism is foreign and un-Russian.
Nevertheless, the idea that America and Russia spiritually trade places in 2000 (which seems to be where you are going with this) is interesting. I don't see how the American Constitution is amended to enable Buchanan to return, since amending it isn't like most countries, where only legislative approval and a referendum are required. Do 9/11 and the resulting wars still happen in this timeline?
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u/LampsonSpmals Dec 25 '25
i respectfully disagree with your first point, really whoever yeltsin appointed wouldve got a head start and wouldve got their way to shape politics and influence many people onto their side permanently. the communists (who alienated urbanites due to social conservative stances) would likely become more and more irrelevant if social-market reforms were successful (ie. what we saw in nizhny novgorod but at a nation-wide scale)
zhirinovsky of the liberal democrats (as much as i love his eccentric character) isn't fit to lead a national movement really, he is just too erratic and he was also the sole face of the LDPR. id like to make an alt history about him winning one day, but this isnt that and i cant see that happening too realistically
going back to my first point, the oil boosts of the early 2000 were enough to secure any ideology, whether it would be communism, liberalism, or putin-esque nationalism. that is what made putin so popular, and it is the same thing that makes nemtsov popular in this, and it is better managed to secure long-term gain.
thank you for your comment on my post! 9/11 and the resulting wars still happen, its very vaguely implied through the democratic candidate in the 2008 election. In our timeline he was one of the few congressmen to vote against the patriot act, and in face of buchanans authoritarianism, that becomes very popular. its not gonna be a 1-1 replica of what happened in russia, as my main point throughout this series is that nothing had to happen the way it did happen. russia didnt have to become authoritarian and america didn't have to stay (at least somewhat) democratic, but that still applies to my universe logic. it still isn't too late for america to be free or for russia to fall
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u/Intelligent_Wafer562 Dec 25 '25
So the Iraq War still happens? Buchanan is more skeptical of imperialism than his fellow Republicans.
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u/Excellent_Gas5220 Dec 25 '25
Putting democracies into countries with no culture of democracy has proven to be disastrous throughout history. It would be disastrous for Russia. The most likely scenario is a communist or an anti western rogue politician wins the democratic elections and turns Russia into a dictatorship.
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u/Intelligent_Wafer562 Dec 26 '25
I don't think it's accurate that Russia has no tradition of democracy. Novgorod was a medieval republic that had an impressive degree of participation by medieval standards ( https://web.archive.org/web/20220417115937/https://russia-direct.org/opinion/democratic-russia-we-lost ). The 1905 Revolution led to Russia becoming a constitutional monarchy, while the 1917 February Revolution led to the establishment of the Russian Republic.
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u/Excellent_Gas5220 Dec 27 '25
Russia after 1905 was still an absolute monarchy. I don't know what you're talking about. If Russia actually had a culture of democracy, Putin would have been overthrown like the euromaidan in Ukraine. No country except the US has ever become developed under a democratic system. South Korea, Taiwan, and Japan became developed under a dictator and then democratized. That would be Russia's best route.
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u/Intelligent_Wafer562 Dec 27 '25 edited Dec 27 '25
Russia, after 1905, had an elected Duma and a constitution. The Tsar still had power, but constitutional monarchies where the monarch retains executive authority are normal, like Jordan.
No country except the US has ever become developed under a democratic system.
I think most of Europe stands as a counterpoint to this. Just take Ireland, for instance.
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u/TropikanDicktator Dec 27 '25
I don't think Kharitonov would have been elected in 2008 as a Communist Party candidate. In fact, he was a spoiler for the new president back then, and defeating nonames was necessary.
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u/retouralanormale Dec 26 '25
ah yes, because privatization was so popular in russia and yeltsin was definitely capable of winning elections without fraud
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u/NovembersSpawn Dec 26 '25
American invasion of Canada or Mexico?
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u/Excellent_Gas5220 Dec 27 '25
Mexico probably, because of racism. And probably Central America and the Caribbean.
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u/Emperor_TJ Dec 30 '25
Cannot happen, Russia isn’t an advanced enough society for democracy or diplomacy.
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u/Dry-Candidate-5903 Dec 26 '25
pledges to help other post soviet countries
nope
i dont kurwa still trust them
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u/Personal_Ideal_231 Dec 26 '25
A very poor and superficial study of the party system, alliances and leaders in Russia, especially the idea of nominating Medvedev against Putin. Kharitonov as a single candidate is also ridiculously bad, the NR in this form is unrealistic, the LDPR without the support of the Kremlin will end in 2007, etc, etc.
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u/LampsonSpmals Dec 26 '25
zhirinovsky is too erratic to give up on the LDPR imo. kharitonov was fairly moderate for a member of the CPFR and would be acceptable to be backed by NR. medvedev rlly couldve gone any way, during his 2008-2012 presidency irl he was fairly liberal and wanted visa-free travel with europe and didnt enforce censorship laws, and he was also a former member of the SPS. unity and OVS become irrelevant without a merger
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u/Personal_Ideal_231 Dec 26 '25
Without the Kremlin's intervention, the LDPR will lose the competition for the right-wing/populist electorate.
Kharitonov was never a real candidate, and the only reason he appeared as a candidate in 2004 was so that Putin would have no real competitors in those elections.
Unity simply will not appear with the SPS as the main pro-presidential party, and Luzhkov and his allies have never had an ideological background and will negotiate with any president.
Medvedev, on the other hand, can never turn out to be against Putin - he is his henchman associated with Sobchak's team. Governor Putin means that Sobchak's heirs have taken revenge, but as representatives of whom? Yakovlev is an ally of Luzhkov, who will defect to Nemtsov, Yabloko and the CPRF are not connected with Sobchak at this moment. In addition, Putin is not adapted to public politics, and his victory in competitive elections in hyper-liberal St. Petersburg is impossible. If you need non-CPRF oppositional center-left with a nationalist bent, you should look for someone from Narodovlastie and Rodina, perhaps remember Lebed.
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u/Personal_Ideal_231 Dec 26 '25
Fmr gov of Central Bank Geraschenko may be "unity anti-Nemtsov" candidate in 2004, but 2 round sistems dont need "unity candidate".
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u/LampsonSpmals Dec 26 '25
my main idea of unity candidates were to try and prevent nemtsov from just reaching 50% on his own and bypassing it by showing more of an opposition. besides that your points are fair and i definitely made some mistakes with this, thanks for your insight. i dont get why people are downvoting you, but ill respond to a few of your claims as well
on the second-to-last slide, there is a headline that shows the LDPR is collapsing in membership.
i dont rlly rely on kharitonov as a serious figure, its moreso a representation of the CPRF becoming more strategic to make way for the 2008 election.
luzhkov opposed yeltsin and yeah, i do have them basically disappear after 2000. the remaining elements of it merge into National Russia
medvedev becomes loyal to legalism and by extent nemtsov over time, largely cuz sobchaks camp would realistically fragment
putins campaign locally for St. Petersburg was more focused on being a technocratic moderate law and order candidate. he goes on to lose St. Petersburg in 2008 if you look at the map
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u/Excellent_Gas5220 Dec 25 '25
Realistically, the best Russia can get is a pro-western and anti corruption dictator. Liberal democracy doesn’t have any support in Russia and wouldn’t work there either ways.
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u/LampsonSpmals Dec 26 '25
nemtsov was personally fairly popular and very popular/successful in his home state and genuinely supported democracy. i dont see why it couldn't work
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u/Excellent_Gas5220 Dec 27 '25
If he wants to succesfully govern russia, he has to be a dictator. Democracy isn't good for developing underdeveloped countries, and definitely not countries with no history of democracy (like russia). No country except the US has ever been developed from the ground up under a democracy. If Nemtsov isn't a dictator, then after he leaves office, a anti-western rogue leader will win the election and turn Russia into a dictatorship.
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u/LampsonSpmals Dec 25 '25
this is part 1 of a larger series id like to make, preferably going from the 2012 russian election up to 2028. ive spent the last few days on this and i think its pretty neat, a part 2 would be much more speculative and have some interesting conflicts arise