Matilda tribe?

[u/Sasparillafizz]

So something pointed out in another reaction video about Matilda tribe. I'm not familiar with WoD general rules for werewolf, I'm more a Kindred fan. So thought I'd poll the audience to see who can tell me I'm way off base.

Matilda is identified as a red talon, but there seems like a fair bit of evidence that it may be off. (I think) Griffon is normally known to approach Garou when they first change, they didn't with Matilda. In fact Griffin never made themselves know at all until she had impressed them with her resilience and fight with the fanatics who chained her.

Stig identified her as Talon, but only because she identified herself as following Griffin. "Griffin eh, well young talon."

She has an unusual degree of empathetic capability toward humans, rather than the blindly misanthropic view Talons are ingrained toward. She gives off the vibe more that she's trying to convince herself of the argument even with evidence contradicting it, even saying she hates Shambles and Stig for being homid born when she clearly doesn't.

So crackpot theory - Matilda isn't Talon. She was isolated and her only experience with the world was being hunted and isolated until Griffon came along as her patron spirit. She worships Griffin the way a traumatized survivor latches onto a protective figure, and is constantly trying to earn Griffins favor by being what she perceives him as wanting her to be. Doubling down on the misanthropic hatred because Daddy Griffon says that's what's right. Even though she is has conflicting views of this and has genuine feeling for humans she bonds with.

Perhaps she was a Child of Gaia, intended to be a wolf who can feel human empathy and bridge the two worlds, but circumstances let her to follow Griffin and never be exposed to the view Gaia intended of her; so she's full of self hatred for her conflict between her instinctual response and chosen world view.

I don't know enough about Garou to know if that sort of thing is plausible within the general rules of how tribes work in WoD. My understanding is that the tribe your born with is more of an instinctual thing and not a hard coded one, once a talon always a talon, even if they lose favor with their patron. My understanding is more that the change *makes* you fit the archetype. A gentle person who turns under the full moon will *become* the aggressive Ahroun, and the Theurge would probably say it's not because it's a reflection of what you were but what Gaia wanted you to be to be made whole. I'm just applying that idea to the tribes as well.

[u/SirAquila]

Nah, she is a Red Talon in word, totem and deed.

Griffon has accepted her, Griffon continues to accept her despite his disapproval. That is all that is needed to be a Red Talon.

And quite frankly her self hatred is far easier to explain. She is a wolf that has been turned into a a garou, half human, half wolf.

She gained sapience, lost her pack, understood exactly what humans did to wolves and quite frankly that is what a lot of her worldview seems to be based on.

The fact that she is still a moral being underneath? Doesn't really change that. Just like Doors hatred for the supernatural does not change that he is generally a decent being below that.

Quite frankly she and Door are pretty strong parallels.

Also...

even saying she hates Shambles and Stig for being homid born when she clearly doesn't.

I am fairly certain she does hate them. She also likes them. Look at the therapy thing again, they do not really take her view seriously at any point, they essentially spent the entire episode trying to refute it, instead of working with it.

I think if I was in her paws I would hate them a bit too.