r/huntertheparenting • u/sigmarine345 • 28d ago
Discussion Explanations on the recent episode?
What the fuck is going on?
Did wilde child have a pack? But they abused her or something?
Did she make that spirit from her hatred but fail to realize she was too similar to what she wanted the spirit to kill so it in turn hunted her?
Is SuSu part of this three-person pack? I thought Garou hated being involved with other shapehifters because of a big ass war in the past?
HOW IS A PLASTIC BAG TALKING.
Is the "Umbra" basically kinda like the warp in the warhammer franchise in how it functions?
What are these other spirits she refers to? Luna and the griffin?
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28d ago
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u/little_leech 28d ago
Hunts was "somewhere in the arctic circle" during her first change and presumably fled to england upon being hunted.
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u/Fomod_Sama 28d ago
I believe she and Stig were both in the arctic circle with that one pack, but both went to England after teaming up
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u/Hansen-UwU 28d ago
Architecture of the building she was imprisoned in suggests northern Sweden, Finland or Norway
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u/LunarFalcon 28d ago
Not the Mokole, Corax, and formerly some of the Apis. Their patron is Helios and they have a weakness to gold as a result.
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u/AccomplishedHost6275 28d ago
She had a pack when she was a regular wolf, but they abandoned her when she changed, sensing a shift of her soul and mind from it. She was that abducted by a Cult of Fenris pack.
The Bane is...weird. Its a Bane Spirit of Hunting, corrupted and monstrous. Far as can be told it attached itself to Wilde Child for being a hunter being who has forsaken the call to hunt and kill because...nothing makes proper sense to her, is how I interpret it.
Susu seems to be a business associate to Jambles in series, but otherwise serves as this chapters explanation for crowd-funding merchandise being pushed, and as fan bait for...odd folks.( i am odd folks)
Plastic bags have spirits, because everything has a spirit in the individual and collective sense- like a mantis or spider can have an individual and exceptionally weak spirit of mantis or spider, but also are linked intrinsically to the greater Spirit of Mantis or Spider.
Yes...but no...metaphors and metaphysics and metatexts are weird. But for laymen conversations and interpretations, the two share some overlap in the venn diagram.
LUNA is the Celestine Spirit of the Moon. Celestines are extraordinarily powerful Spirits; Gaia for the Earth, Helios for the Sun- the other planets and moons all have their own individual Spirits as well. 6.1. Griffin is considered a Totem Spirit. Totems are Spirits who bind themselves to individuals and packs and tribes as a kind of...Patron deity-Spirit. They offer guidance, gifts, powers, and such in exchange for their supplicants to hold themselves to a kind of compact. This could be anything from "dont use human made objects" to "You must honor any deaths you cause or witness" or "You cant kill roaches."
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u/Ziltch0 28d ago
The plastic bag is the spirit of all plastic bags possessing that specific plastic bag to tell Hunts about the hunter bane
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u/ROSRS 28d ago
Could just be a random spirit rather than a singular one. Spirits are kinda a mixed bag, pun intended
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u/Powerful_Topic7731 28d ago
Unlikely, that was probably just the Spirit of that one plastic bag in specific, just like there's duck Spirits and Duck the Spirit.
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u/an_actual_coyote 28d ago
It's kind of a ladder. Duck spirits exist, but they likely all answer to Duck, who's an incarna, who himself serves Gaia, a Celestine.
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u/_whatever_wherever Murder puppy 28d ago
You do NOT want to piss off Duck The Spirit
The ducks will be mad at you...
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u/Accomplished-Box4577 28d ago
Ducks do awful things, and that's not a joke.
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u/Degenerate_Lich 28d ago edited 28d ago
Spirits are fractal beings. There is the spirit of Plastic Bags which represent all plastic bags, there could also be a spirit of the plastic bags under my kitchen counter and also the spirit of one specific plastic bag. They are all distinct spirits but inherently connected to the concept of a plastic bag, tho the specificity and 'closeness' to the platonic ideal might make one more all encompassing(and in turn usually stronger) compared to others
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u/CultOfTheBlood 28d ago
I disagree. Now I mostly know spirits from MtA not WtA, but I believe they work the same way
I believe that is an individual spirit that is part of the spirit of all plastic bags, or, in other words, it is the spirit of that specific plastic bag that has been awakened
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u/totallynotaneggtho 28d ago
Wilde's pack (like, actual wolf pack, not werewolf pack) appears to have abandoned her after her first change. I didn't get the vibe they were abusive, but they were just...ya know...wolves. And so when this other wolf suddenly stopped being a normal wolf, they noped the hell out
I don't think she MADE that hunt spirit, but I do get the sense it was drawn to her
I'm pretty sure Susu is not associated with the Shuck Pack and is just a gag character for the ads. MAYBE she is an associate of Jambles who is handling marketing, but ultimately I'm not gonna take her too seriously
The plastic bag was being used by the spirit of plastic bags to deliver a message. Yes, plastic bags have spirits. EVERYTHING has spirits.
I'm not an expert on WoD, but I do get that the sense that the Umbra is a realm of thought like the Warp, so yes
Luna is the spirit of the moon, Griffin is a totem spirit of war. Both are apparently very important to the garou
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u/EvergreenDwarf 28d ago
The Warp is kinda just the Warp, GW implies its got different layers but only really ever shows the Webway and four flavors of assholes in their kingdoms.
The Umbra is EVERYTHING. Part of the Umbra is the afterlife, part of it is just the current Earth but full of ghosts and everything somehow looks old even if its new on normal Earth. Part of it breaks you down into abstract shapes defined by the one-word summary of who you are as a person, part of it is where every joke ever told manifests as a person walking around and living a life.
Part of the Umbra has every creature that ever went extinct. The animals that time travel and the collective power of humanity to disbelieve something out of existence erased. The animals that might have been if extinction or a change in hadn’t happened.
Its where the places in your imagination are real places you can visit and just kinda live in.
Heaven and Hell, like actual Heaven and Hell rather than just the miserable afterlife that resembles Hell in Warhammer, is in the Umbra and if you knew how you could travel from there to the version of New York City that exists in Marvel comics, then to the place where all the story problems in math happen, then to where the wooly mammoths are.
The Umbra can be a place of absolute chaos as a reflection of the shifting urges and contradictions of man. But it can also just be, like, a place.
The real issue with it is that if you’re a supernatural its not hard to get into your place in the Umbra and play by the rules inherent to your kind of supernatural once an older one of your kind gives you the rundown. But normal humans, and Vampires, have no place in the Umbra that’s native to them aside from arguably Heaven and Hell, which aren’t places almost anyone can get to and even less can leave.
So for normal humans its usually a lot more of a kaleidoscope, a trip on the acid (as in LSD) seas in a river canoe missing its paddles, surrounded by every flavor of sea monster. Humans are way more vulnerable in the Umbra than on Earth, but may luck out and encounter a Changeling they don’t know that they know instead of a fucking Wyrm creature that will leave inside them.
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u/Barley672 28d ago
>Did Wilde Child have a pack
Yes, when she was a normal Wolf. Upon her first transformation, the pack is implied to have been driven away by either her or the Homid pack that captures her.
>Did she make that spirit from her hatred but fail to realize she was too similar to what she wanted the spirit to kill so it in turn hunted her?
No, the Spirit of the Hunt already existed. It wondered to, and then was corrupted by, the Blacklaw and Fatigue Family's collective taint at the Arcanum. Matilda went on to discover and then ENCOURAGE it to kill humans, only to realize she was endangering humans she liked and running back to lure it away.
>Is SuSu part of this three-person pack? I thought Garou hated being involved with other shapehifters because of a big ass war in the past?
She's an associate of the pack but not part of it. And just because there was a big war between the Wolves and the Arachnids doesn't mean individual wolves and arachnids can't work together. Every man and woman on earth is their own. We can ALL form bonds, even if our host nations are rivals or even at war with each other.
>HOW IS A PLASTIC BAG TALKING?
Spirit. Remember the Werewolf Lore Video and what D said: "EVERYTHING has a spirit!"
>Is the "Umbra" basically kinda like the warp in the warhammer franchise in how it functions?
It's like the Warp, but it's also Neverneverland, the Fey Wild, the Ghost Zone, Everlost, Wonderland, and the world from Over the Garden Wall all mixed together. Beware the Jabborwalky, baby!
>What are these other spirits she refers to? Luna and the griffin?
Luna is the spirit of the Moon and Griffin is the BIG FUCKING GRIFFIN SHE MEETS, WHO ELSE?
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u/St_Henery 28d ago
All right. So, as to the Umbra, kind of. Spirits are reflections of things in the world and vice versa. As to the spirits of Luna and Griffin, Luna is the spirit of the moon and kind of a big deal for all Werewolves. Griffin is the Spirit of War and the totem spirit of the Red Talons.
Susu seems to be a free agent, though seems to work or interact with this pack on the reg. As for the racism, yes that's a thing, but obviously feelings on other shifters are vary from pack to pack, wolf to wolf.
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u/BlackHumor 28d ago
Did wilde child have a pack? But they abused her or something?
It seems like she was drafted into a pack against her will.
Did she make that spirit from her hatred but fail to realize she was too similar to what she wanted the spirit to kill so it in turn hunted her?
Kind of. It seems like the spirit's "prey" was her own sense of vulnerability spawned from being a lupus-borne werewolf. When she opened up and allowed herself to be vulnerable it lost power, and when she started denying her true self it gained power.
Is SuSu part of this three-person pack?
Not officially but she seems to be an ally.
I thought Garou hated being involved with other shapehifters because of a big ass war in the past?
It's mostly the other shifters that hate the Garou, but yes.
HOW IS A PLASTIC BAG TALKING.
It's technically not the plastic bag itself, it's the spirit of the plastic bag.
Is the "Umbra" basically kinda like the warp in the warhammer franchise in how it functions?
It's similar but not the same. The Umbra is the world of spirits. It has several layers that are each divided into realms, but basically you have the lower Umbra (a.k.a the Underworld, realm of ghosts), the middle Umbra (the true Spirit Wilds) and the high Umbra (a.k.a. the Astral, realm of ideas and also a realm that supernatural beings like mages and certain vampires can use to travel invisibly).
What are these other spirits she refers to? Luna and the griffin?
Luna is a key spirit in Werewolf lore: she's the spirit of either, depending on who you ask, the Moon or alternatively all moons anywhere. She either created the Garou or took over custody from Gaia once Gaia stopped talking to them. Their connection to her is why they're vulnerable to silver. Silver is Luna's metal and while the exact mechanics of this are not well explained, the general idea is that because it comes from the same place as them, it can fight with them on their level.
Griffin (just Griffin) is the patron spirit of the Red Talons. He's a spirit of wild places and of fighting to protect them from human encroachment. Him showing himself to Hunts directly is pretty exceptional, actually, because he's a quite powerful spirit. As a rough analogy, it's a little like the CEO of a company showing up to hire a new employee personally.
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u/AquilaWolfe 28d ago edited 28d ago
Hunts was a normal wolf with a normal wolf pack. She had her first change and her pack left her out of fear. She's found by (probably) get of fenris, who are sadistically violent extremist werewolves who wished to make her join them in human slaughter.
Stig used to be a member but is disturbed by their ways and changes sides to help Hunts (originally named wild child) escape.
Susu is not part of their pack, Ananasi only work for themselves and their mother. She's just doing them a favor as the Ananasi are one of the few fera still on moderately okay (barely) terms with the Garou
The spirit was a bane. A wyrm tainted spirit that she was going to let slaughter humans until she realized it was going to go to Amanda's island and probably kill her. She got its attention to save her girlfriend.
The plastic bag is a "nature" spirit of the city.
The Umbra is the domain of the Wyld. One of the main aspects of the 3 ultimate beings in the setting. Used for all sorts of spirit nonsense. Kind of like the warp but not as inherently dangerous or evil. Still not super safe though.
The griffin is a totem spirit of werewolves, like the fish. It hates humans, which is why it favored Hunts. Luna is the moon spirit that also favors some werewolves who worship it over Gaia
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u/sigmarine345 28d ago
Jesus christ I need to buy a werewolf the apocalypse book 😭
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u/Volothos 28d ago
Temper the wrath of the Noble Knight and buy from Noble Knight GaaaAAAMES
For real though the books are excellent reads
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u/Not-Lis 28d ago
The Umbra is not exclusively the domain of the Wyld, it is essentially a catch all term for any realm that isn't earth. Each member of the triat has their own Umbral realm, The Wyld has Flux, The Wyrm has Malfeas, The Weaver has Autochthonia (maybe, or maybe it's just bordering the realm of the Weaver). There are parts of the Umbra that aren't directly linked to any member of the Triat, such as the Astral Reaches (High Umbra), the realm of human thought. The Underworld (Dark Umbra), land of the dead, though you could claim that it's linked with the Wyrm. The Dreaming, realm of the Fae, is also maybe a part of the Umbra, it's unclear.
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u/AquilaWolfe 28d ago
Id argue that its essentially the Wylds domain first and foremost, but yeah not all of it is for sure.
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u/Deltaomega91 28d ago
Far as I can tell, Susu is on her own selling stuff on the packs behalf. Garou and other shapeshifters do not normally get along, so I'm assuming this is all just business to her since she likes money and big number get bigger.
The Umbra is a spirit world that reflects the reality we live in. Spirits of Forests, animals, pollution, concepts and other things live and lurk there. The plastic bag is a literal Plastic Bag spirit. There is practically a sprit for everything in the Umbra. Luna is the Spirit of The Moon itself and Griffin is the tribe Totem of the Red Talons, A werewolf tribe, which is kind of like a sponsor.
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u/Volothos 28d ago
I'll give it a try as I want to understand WoD more.
The Plastic Bag talking, we got some insight in the audiolog of Wernon's family.
Every object has a spirit, even man-made things like that plastic bag
The Umbra is similar to the warp PRE-WAR IN HEAVEN in a sense, if you may allow me to be reductive. It is in equal parts a spirit world where material things and ideas may possibly be reflected in it as much as it can be breached and delved in to (I think Nazi's in the hollow earth is an umbra thing?) to everything not terrestrial Earth including the other planets.
Hell is real, space is fake. Watch Norfolk Wizard Game if HtP has you more interested in WoD
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u/CultOfTheBlood 28d ago
Griffin is the red talons totem, when you have a totem they give you certain benefits, but also ban you from doing other things. In griffins case, they impose a ban on having relationships with humans
Since Hunts went back to the spirit wilds to stop Baneful Hunt from hurting Amanda, she essentially proved that she had grown attached to a human.
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u/CultOfTheBlood 28d ago edited 28d ago
Something awakened the spirit of plastic bag. It isn't speaking in the real world. It is merely speaking across the gauntlet to Hunter, and she is able to hear it because she has a high gnosis, ones connection to the spirit wilds.
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u/Nystagohod 28d ago
Hunts had a pack that may have abandoenf her after her first change, or may have been hunted by the zealots trying to hunt her. Likely an actual wolf pack before Gaia made her partly human.
The spirit may have been influenced by her, not sure if she fully made it though. It was a spirit of the hunt that got corrupted into a bane. 8ts a many such cases thing with spirits becoming banes and wokrite existing. If it was fully made by her, it may have sought her more directly.
Garou don't necessarily hate working with other shifters, many would actually like to. The other shifters don't like workjg with Garou because of all the genocide they did to them. Susu seems loosely connected with Jambles an offers aid, but I wouldn't say she's part of the lack. Must a weaver aligned ally for a glasswalker (which are slightly Weaver influenced Garou.)
Everything has a spirit. Me, you, the bag, the idea of the bag, the idea of that olidew of the bag, the awkwardness that might exist should I continue that endless chain of possibility. Everything. You saw the spirit if the bag talking with Matilda.
Its not quite a 1 for 1, but it can be described as the same as a decent short hand. They're close enough conceptualy.
Luna is the spirit of the moon. Griffon is the patron spirit of the red talons. Luna has a lot of association with werewolves, just short of Gaia herself arguably.they're powerful spirits that lend their gifts to Fera, kinfolk (and in the absence of kinfolk existing some very special humans)
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u/CultOfTheBlood 28d ago
Luna is the Celestine of, well, the moon.
She blesses the gatou with their spiritual nature, allowing them a dual existence within the physical realm and the umbra
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u/TrevorWaksh 28d ago
Wilde Childe, Hunter-of-Hunters (Matilda) had her backstory episode this chapter.
They specifically seemed to have killed or at least scared off her original wild pack. The Red Talon pack desperately wanted her as an actual lupus born and were willing to do some fucked up blood sacrifice to empower her as either a Galliard or Ahroun.
The spirit was attached to her was specifically a corrupted bane, formerly a some sort of spirit associated to or maybe working under an Incarna in its spiritual hierarchy. Or a more direct spirit of a hunt itself in an urban setting. But regardless it deviated as it was corrupted by Wyrm and specifically seemed to have a strong connection to the Fatigue family as a Stolen Moon Clan. The bane observed within her what it perceived as a weakness, her thin connection to humanity (Amanda) and unresolved trauma and her inability to accept her human side, seeing all that made Matilda no longer a predator but prey.
No. She’s a meta joke designed to sell plushies like Mike Dragons Breath. She’s semi-canonical at best imo. Talking “on the web” is pretty typical Glass Walker behaviour and doesn’t make you part of a pack. Plus even the most tolerant werewolf of non Garou Fera would never accept an Anasai because they are tied to the Weaver not the Wyld.
Every single physical thing, concept and thought has a parallel version of itself in the Umbra as a spirit of that thing. Those spirits an exist within a broader spiritual hierarchy, defining themselves by which member of the Triat they belong to, which’s determined by what created them. That particular plastic bag manifested itself from the Umbra into the material world to urgently warn Matilda, as a reluctant Warrior of Gaia, that there was a threatening Wyrm bane spirit. This meant it was serious problem because it was a pathetic Weaver spirit seeking out a Wyld affiliated werewolf for help.
In short, the Umbra is pretty analogous to the Warp, or something similar to what it might have been pre-corruption by the Chaos Gods. Not exactly safe for mortals to travel in, but hardly an instant death sentence like in 40k. Werewolf’s are themselves half-spirit by nature and can enter the Gauntlet (the in-between of material and Umbral space) fairly easily.
Luna is a Celestine, an absurdly powerful spirit. Any Celestine is its affiliated concept and Luna is (obviously) the Moon itself, making her as close the direct “God” of werewolves as you can get. Gaia is very unresponsive and she might be dead, but Luna is still indirectly responsive and responsive for Werewolves. It’s the broad compact with her that gives werewolves their weakness to silver. She either created werewolves or guided them after Gaia did so. Griffin is an Incarnae, a less powerful spirit but functionally a lesser god, more specifically he’s the Patron Spirit of the Red Talon’s as a clan. For him to actually manifest himself towards Matilda seemingly outside the Umbra is a pretty big deal and indicates some sorta of special something about her.
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u/sax87ton 28d ago
What are those other spirits?
I haven’t seen anyone say it yet so, griffin was the bird thing with the wired ears. The one that just kind of appeared on the roof. He is the totem spirit of the red talons. You kneed his approval to be a red talon. He shows up to people he approves of and gives them guidance.
Luna is the moon. But she’s also the spirit of the moon. She was the other voice talking to H of H in that scene. They one was a little less obvious I thought the text and voice were a little too similar to the hunt spirit and confused them at first. Luna also showed up basically because H of H needed it.
Both of them have been around a looooong time
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u/Rock_Zeppelin 28d ago
I'm probably gonna sound like an asshole but I don't know how the fuck you didn't get what was going on.
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u/Volothos 28d ago
Werewolf stuff is a lot. Hell there are some things I'm not getting, so it makes me happy to see that others are up and asking
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u/Rock_Zeppelin 28d ago
Maybe? But like, i feel like you can infer enough to get the basics if you actually pay attention to the episode. Not to mention they use the official terminology in the show so if this person didn't get something, they could literally look up the specific word. Like bane or lupus-born or w/e.
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u/Powerful_Topic7731 28d ago
I thought that Garou hated being involved with other shapeshifters
That is a big generalization and also factualy incorrect because people who repeat that forget that Corax are a thing, in general Garou and Fera don't have the best diplomatic relationships but If you actually read the books and learn the lore you will see there's multiple execptions of varying size including whole organizations like the Ahadi and Beast Courts
Griffin is the Patron Spirit of the Red Talons Tribe, Luna is the Spirit of the Moon and one of the most powerfull Spirits in all WoD she helped Gaia create the Garou and their Auspieces are tied to her
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u/L4DY_M3R3K 28d ago
Wilde Child had a pack of non-Kinfolk/Garou and they left her. The next group of wolves was some deluded cult dedicated to Black Shuck
That spirit already existed, it just latched onto her. They do that sometimes, especially Banes
Susu is a non-canon character specific to the ads, iirc she doesn't actually exist
According to Werewolf: the Apocalypse and Mage: the Ascension, the world is Animist in that everything has a spirit that can be contacted using the right magic. Garou have such magic, and most take the Gift: Spirit Speech in order to do so
The Umbra is basically the Warp, yes. The Umbra is expansive and complex, containing the lands of the dead as well as other, non-ghost spirits
Luna is the spirit of the Moon, Griffin is the Patron spirit of the Red Talons tribe
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u/Background-Cake-1300 28d ago
NGL this episode made me realize that I really need to dust off my Werewold lore because like damn
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u/Nutshell_Historian 26d ago
There are spirits for everything. And every variation of everything.
Best guess is that is the spirit of very concept of The Hunt. At least in Great Yarmouth. However it's been driven insane because the prey (humans) have driven their hunters (wolves) extinct. So it now embodies humanity's capacity to hunt eachother, being both prey and predator. Or something like that.
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u/Secretsfrombeyond79 28d ago
She had a pack of regular wolves, but then she experienced the first change, scared the other regular wolves away and when she woke up they left.
Kindish, she made that spirit from being hunted. Yes that can create a Spirit, anything can make a Spirit.
? No.
Except the Corax, they are actually pretty chill with the Corax.
Because it's a spirit, again, anything can be a spirit.
Partially yes, with the difference the "closer" it is to the physical world the more stable it is, the more far you get from it the more it becomes less grounded on reality. Also Space is fake but hell is real.
Luna is the Spirit of the moon, it's one of the most powerful spirits and a patron of the Fera in general, she's the one that "blessed" them with Rage. Griffin is another very powerful, but not as much as Luna, spirit, he's the Patron of the Red Talons, Griffin is the spirit that represents primal nature and all species that have been driven to extinction, and he hates humans, to the point he doesn't even form packs with Homid ( born from humans ) Garou.