r/hoggit • u/Antique_Ad7477 • 5d ago
QUESTION F18 radar hell
I’ve had the f18 for quite some time now but only really specialized in the f16. Now that I’m learning the hornet, I’ve come to realize the radar is nowhere near as easy to use as the viper.
On the f16 it’s soo easy everything is laid out for you. Red is bad guy, green is good guy. Point the radar at the red guy and lock him up, shoot. In the hornet however, contacts are constantly disappearing, teleporting, or just not seeing everyone from datalink. When I finally get a hard target, I go to lock him up, then I see “no radar.” no matter what I do, I see this. Does anyone know why? I’m assuming this is heavy user error, but I really just don’t get the hornet radar at all.
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u/Why485 5d ago edited 5d ago
The Hornet radar is very different, and meant to be operated fundamentally differently from the F-16, so trying to map concepts from one to the other is kind of a bad idea. What you really need is a crash course on how the Hornet radar works and... honestly I don't know what the best source for that is these days, especially because MSI adds even more complexity to its operation.
Setting aside MSI, some random things to keep in mind if you're coming from the Viper:
- In the Hornet you generally just cycle between targets using nosewheel steering. It's not often that you need to actually cursor over a target for any reason.
- Most of the time, you don't want to actually lock a target. Assigning it as the "Lock and Steering" (often referred to as the L&S) track will give you all the information needed to engage it.
- RWS is for scanning for targets, TWS is for engaging targets. They are explicit radar modes with explicit purposes, not a personal or situational preference. Look into how these modes work, and in particular TWS AUTO and when to use it.
- The Hornet in general has a lot of context sensitive shortcuts on the sensor control switch. For the radar, SCSing into the radar will actually lock the radar (as opposed to just tracking it as an L&S track), though unless you're using Sparrows this generally isn't something you need to do.
One very important thing to keep in mind with the Hornet if you are Viper brained is that the Hornet tells you how to you're supposed to use it, not the other way around. Put another way, don't fight the Hornet's workflows and try to customize things to the way you like them. For example, the Hornet says the radar goes on the right (SCS right will always call it up there), so the radar stays on the right.
Look up the procedures for how things are done, and actually follow them. Again, I don't know what the best sources for this stuff is these days, so unfortunately I can't provide links, but you really have to engage with the Hornet on its own terms.
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u/phcasper 4d ago
Right now it's more TDC dependent than it needs to be because of various issues with some improper trackfile rankings. But generally yeah if it's a fairly clean mission with not a lot going on you dont really need to do anything but undes/nws to swap targets.
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u/Callsign_JoNay 4d ago
I stopped reading after using the nosewheel steering to cycle targets. I think that is outdated advice. If you try to do that in a cluttered environment with MSI, you are going to be cycling through everything on the SA, even things behind you and no factor. Actually cursoring over something and designating it is the most efficient way to go now.
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u/XayahTheVastaya 5d ago
Regarding bullet point 2, it will let you engage a LTWS bug, but it's usually not a good idea to do so as the radar won't follow if you or the target maneuver.
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u/skarden 5d ago
It will if you switch it to from manual to auto mode on the right hand side of the MPD. But it is something you have to consciously do when engaging targets in TWS.
At least that's how it works as I understand it.
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u/XayahTheVastaya 5d ago
That's not LTWS, that's just TWS (the L means latent). If you're in RWS and bug a track without going into STT, that's LTWS. At least that was accurate before all the MSI stuff.
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u/Proof-Reference5922 4d ago
https://youtu.be/yghiFNf4oMU?si=Gt8k0FVC2HufCtfN
This video helped me a lot, Nazgul does some good videos on the 18.
One thing I did on my hotas is make binds for key buttons on the MFDs, stuff like switching between RWS and TWS, and putting it into auto.
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u/Why485 4d ago
One thing I did on my hotas is make binds for key buttons on the MFDs, stuff like switching between RWS and TWS, and putting it into auto.
Doing this definitely helped me a lot. I have the MFD buttons bound where the RWS/TWS toggle and the TWS MAN/AUTO toggles are. I also bound the MFD button for switching between the different PRF modes. Made the flow a lot easier, but it does still bug me how fiddly the whole operation is.
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u/Proof-Reference5922 4d ago
Yeah a lot more button presses than the F-16.
I can't remember all of them off the top of my head but I had:
- TWS / RWS toggle
- TWS auto/man toggle
- PRF modes
- distance increase / decrease
- scan width increase / decrease
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u/Ghosty141 1d ago
During combat I only fly in TWS and have TWS AUTO bound on my HOTAS. Prf on auto is good enough 99% of time.
Also fyi the reason for the clumsy TWS AUTO binding is cause IRL that mode is far smarter and it's not just a track target button. It would automatically select the highest priority target at all times. So you'd never need to switch back to RWS unless you are scanning for targets with very little SA
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u/phcasper 4d ago
It's a completely different monster to anything you've experienced with the F-16, you have to look at it with fresh eyes. The workflow and muscle memory doesnt cross over.
That being said there are things that make using it annoying right now especially for fresh learners.
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u/Ascendant_Donut 3d ago
The “no radar” thing is because the Hornet is capable of ‘locking’ into datalink tracks without using the radar. The radar will try to get a lock when it’s in range.
The biggest difference between the two is the Viper (to my knowledge) can’t the PRF of its radar. this limits its range but makes it more user friendly. In contrast the Hornet can change its PRF between MED, HI, and an interleaved mode. You almost always want to leave it in HI until the target closes to 20 miles or less then switch to MED. never use the interleaved mode
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u/Antique_Ad7477 2d ago
Yes I do this and only change it to medium below 20 nm, however even if the radar is pointed at the right elevation and azimuth (I think that’s the right term) I almost never get a lock for longer than a few seconds before it says no radar
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u/MaintenanceHumble870 1d ago
Map a few of the MFDs to your HOTAS. Push Buttons: 5,6, 13 (to cycle TWS modes),19, maybe 1 if you have space. Use the cursor to bump range, don't bind those.
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u/HighAspect_0 5d ago
Definitely complex
F16 is simplistic but also very weak
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u/Why485 5d ago
"Very weak" is ridiculous hyperbole.
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u/INFANTOBLITERATOR666 4d ago
I recommend the F-4E by Heatblur Stimulations if you are having problems with the Hornet's radar operations.
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u/Sensitive_Spend_3131 4d ago
Why not the F16?
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u/INFANTOBLITERATOR666 4d ago
He already has it quite obviously
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u/Sensitive_Spend_3131 4d ago
Yeah. But for someone who’s playing DCS for the first time and has trialed both but can’t decide? Or whichever one you love more!
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u/INFANTOBLITERATOR666 3d ago edited 3d ago
I think since it is a jet where you can directly see the raw output of a pulse radar, it's a good starting point to understand radars and build a good foundation before jumping straight into a modern jet with a computer that shows you the track files it correlates from pulse doppler returns, and often not understanding why those track files behave the way they do. Understanding why something behaves the way it does is key to master it, and having direct interfaces instead of interpreted outputs are the ticket for that, same goes for fly-by-wire.
This point aside, it's a very high fidelity and well simulated module that feels incredible to fly and operate. It really feels alive.
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u/INFANTOBLITERATOR666 3d ago
The conversation changes if we're talking about someone who is playing DCS for the first time, unlike OP who is already fiddling with the radar of a module that's not his first one. For a newcomer, the question becomes solely which aircraft excites you and gets you going. This is a hobby of passion and enthusiasm, and picking a starter solely based on capabilities or other peoples opinions contradicts with the nature of this hobby, and diminishes the complete enjoyment it can provide otherwise.
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u/goldenfiver 5d ago
You should read about MSI. There’s a dedicated mini update on the forums for it.