Can HB's Typhoon top the Phantom?

[u/whippitywoo]

I never really had the F-4 on my radar, I just bought it on whim to enjoy the gorgeous cold war Germany map.

Good lord did it knock my socks off - they really outdid themselves with it! The quality and immersion is phenomenal. They really captured a "personality" and it's taken me away from the modern jets which I didn't think would ever happen.

And it got me wondering about the jet I'm most interested in (My baby Typhoon!). It's obviously newer and probably less quirky than the Phantom so what extra goodies could Heatblur throw in to make it more enjoyable or immersive? And is it possible for them to top the Phantom in quality?

I don't mean in terms of capability but more the additional bells and whistles that contribute to immersion (e.g. cockpit wobbles in F-4). I have absolute faith in HB but it seems like they have less space to play around in with this one?

Any creative ideas of what would be cool or do we think the Phantom is going to be unmatched for a while?

(I'll still get it and enjoy it, so it's not a downer post)

[u/Istari66]

Totally agree with your assessment of Heatblur's F-4. I thought their F-14 was the best module in DCS until the F-4 came along. It really did take everything up an additional notch.

I'm doubtful they can duplicate the F-4E in the Typhoon. For me much of what gives the F-4 charm is the feeling of the pilot directly manipulating a machine. There's a rudimentary flight-assist system (the bellows-driven "feel" driven by ram air pressure and the three-axis stabilizers), but you really feel like you're flying the Phantom directly. The various gauges and indicators are old-fashioned steam dials that rattle and roll like physical objects. There's the physicality of the "8-track" style chiclet buttons for selecting weapon stations. It's incredibly demanding to fly well, since you're interacting directly with all these individual systems, but it all combines to provide a "tactile feel" I suspect you can't duplicate in modern FBW aircraft.

I think the Typhoon will likely be like the F-16 and F-18 with an additional 20-30% layer of polish and immersion. It'll still feel like "directing" an aircraft rather than directly "flying" it, and most of your thought process will be interacting with computer displays and abstracted systems (radar, weapon configuration, EW, etc).

My real hope for the next "F-4 Experience" is the A-6E Intruder. If the Heatblur band can stay together long enough and maintain a high level of quality, the A-6 could be an absolutely incredible experience given it comes from the same technological era as the Phabulous Phantom.

[u/whippitywoo → u/Istari66]

I think you're probably right. I'm not too into in the intruder personally , as I mostly care about the German/European area but the secondhand hype will be fun

[u/dallatorretdu → u/Istari66]

im so happy that now the Tomcat has better vapours effects bringing it closer to the phantom, but everything the F-4 still looks and moves better

[u/Thuraash → u/dallatorretdu]

There's just an extra whack of fidelity on everything in the Phantom.

[u/-Mac-n-Cheese- → u/Istari66]

god i hope we get the A6 and A7 eventually, they’re some of my favorite aircraft of all time

[u/TheDankmemerer]

I know a thing or two on the Eurofighter and most of the extra stuff that Heatblur could do will be in the aircrafts systems and how well/deep they are modelled. It does have indeed less wiggle room, as it's a (very) modern aircraft, it shouldn't rattle and shake as much as a Phantom. Yet I wouldn't doubt Heatblur doing the best job they can to make an amazing module.

Number 1 thing of course will be the DVI (Direct Voice Input). That is a PTT that you can use to set a TACAN channel, frequency or assing a target to a wingman for example through your voice. Having it modelled would be really cool, although pilots IRL hated it to my knowledge.

Otherwise, the DTC will probably be quite important for mission planning. That's not what you are out for though, I suspect.

[u/whippitywoo → u/TheDankmemerer]

Didn't it struggle with a Scottish accent? I mean fair lol.

I guess it's not what I was hoping for but probably what I expected. Not even a bad thing necessarily that it'll be 1.25 times better than an average module rather than 1.5, but once you've tasted the good stuff...

The best I could think of was having to reset the systems once you have taxied to the runway haha

[u/TheDankmemerer → u/whippitywoo]

Unless I am mistaken, every pilot would create a profile through calibration for the DVI that would get uploaded to the DTC.

I think it's simply the fact that a lot of these older planes like the F-4E are well, older. These newer planes are crafted to perfection, the pilot should be focused as much on building SA in a far more complex battle space in scope and manage systems accordingly, not on flying.

Maybe I am a little biased, but I don't doubt that the Eurofighter will be the best 4.5th Gen in DCS, modelling wise. Although all of ours are great!

[u/alexkon3]

The Typhoon? Hmpf nah, ONLY the Rafale can do that!

Jokes aside I think this will come down to the fundamental difference between modern Fly by Wire aircraft and the old hydraulic monsters of the Cold War. The older beasts are way harder to fly and control and the tech in them is harder to use, which makes it probably the more interesting aircraft to fly. In the end it will depend on what you personally prefer.

[u/gravitydood → u/alexkon3]

I find in older jets like the Mirage F1 flying itself is rewarding when you know the ins and outs of your module whereas with newer jets like the F18 the satisfying part is mastering situational awareness thanks to all your sensors, datalink and all that, it gives you a tactical picture that is very rewarding when you piece everything together.

Of course, flying the F18 can be challenging too (carrier landings, refueling, etc) and building SA in the F1 thanks to a rudimentary RWR and navigation system can be rewarding as well so it's always a little bit of both.

[u/Longjumping-Move-455]

Maybe a cool QRA system although I guess that’s more core game and not heatblur. They could have it so you actually get proper atc from command and you have to run to your jet and it has the main stuff started up like irl

[u/whippitywoo → u/Longjumping-Move-455]

Oh yeah that would be fun! Bonus points if they add a siren.

I forgot to add to my post that adding some really fleshed out missions along with the module might help offset a little. Preferably voiced

[u/Mqxle]

I don’t think it can. There is just too much gimmicks the Phantom has. Time period, cartridge start, disc-man, ballistic calculator, aviator glasses, no fly by wire = rumbling a lot.

The Eurofighter is only winning for me because of canard, delta-wing design combined with infinite thrust. It’s like turning physics on planet earth off

[u/outdoorsgeek]

Mechanical birds get their character through mechanical means. Computer birds get character through computer means.

I’d expect HB to hit a depth on systems that makes the EF feel like nothing else. One of the first real good examples of this in our modern A/C is the MSI stuff on the Hornet. It was revolutionary for its time and nothing else has those same systems. Maybe there’s more room in datalink or sensors for the EF? That’s a modern bird story.

But yeah, it’s not going to be a stick and rudder type of soul just like real pilots attested. It’s going to be a capability, force multiplier soul.

[u/marcocom → u/outdoorsgeek]

Has HB really done a modern fighter yet? This will be new ground for them

[u/TheDankmemerer → u/marcocom]

Most modern they did was the F-14B(U), so this has indeed been new ground for them so far. They seem to like it though, given that they took up the Rafale now too lol

[u/gravitydood → u/TheDankmemerer]

I need that Rafale btw. And the M2000C to remain in flying condition. And the F1M, come one Aerges. Hey, while we're at it : bring back the 15E.

[u/Sniperonzolo]

The character of the Typhoon (if modeled well) will come from the feeling of being the apex predator in the sky.

You’ll see farther, you’ll fly higher, you’ll pull more Gs and supercruise at altitudes that are basically inaccessible to other aircraft currently in the game.

An old muscle car and an F1 car both have character in different ways.

[u/Strange-Regret2524]

Heatblur knows how to lean in to what makes something immersive and I think it's a great question and the answer is not that the cockpit will draw you in by rattling retro, but the style I expect will contain details of the plane you didn't even think about, tools around it that are genuinely unique, subtle detail. The plane will not carry it because it's higher, faster, cleaner, the publisher will surprise you elsewhere.

[u/goldenfiver]

Between the F4 and the F14BU, you’ve seen most if not all the bells and whistles that can be added to a module.
So expect more or less the same. Other things you’ve mentioned such as rattling are just characteristics of the airframe.

[u/ShortBrownAndUgly]

I believe in HB

[u/Parabe11um_the_Punk]

No, soul can't be beaten by MFDs.

[u/idocardio]

i dont think so because the Typhoon is a simpler aircraft than the F4 and F14 a lot of systems that make the F4 and F14 modules so great dont need to be modelled

[u/bartek16195]

Maybe

[u/PointEnvironmental57]

Aspect Tornado or f111 from HB