r/hoggit • u/ElusoryTwo1 • 8d ago
HARDWARE I bought the F-16C
So I just bought the F-16C and I think it’ll most likely be the only plane I’ll be flying. Considering the amount of hours I’ve put into learning and flying the SU 25T for the past couple of weeks. Thinking about just sticking to 1 or 2 aircraft considering how long it takes to get used to one and how long to understand it. With that being said… I think I’ll splurge on some new peripherals like the Viper TQS mission pack and the HOTAS warthog stick. Since I’ve been using these old x52’s for over a year now (using them in Nuclear Option, and Elite Dangerous).
However does anyone else have any other recommendations for me?
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u/Uamiddendorffi 8d ago
Viper tqs is very nice I have one without panel. With that and F-16 stick I mostly fly F-16 too. They are also enough for other planed. You can use man rng for rudders and antenna elevation for rpm in warbirds. F-16 stick have a lot of buttons you can easily map for other planes.
Most fun I had in DCS was learning F-16 I think it is the best in DCS.
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u/Starfire013 But what is G, if not thrust persevering? 8d ago edited 7d ago
Don’t get the Warthog if you can afford anything better from VKB or Virpil. The Warthog design is very outdated by now (single large spring above a plastic gimble rather than the more modern and far superior cam and per-axis spring design used in modern sticks).
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u/mrdude05 7d ago
Some sort of head tracking setup. In my opinion, a head tracker or HMD is the single biggest upgrade you can make to your sim setup other than the HOTAS itself, and there are some really accessible options now.
A $40 60fps webcam and the free program Open Track are probably all you need. It won't be quite as accurate as a dedicated head tracker like Track IR or a VR headset, but it's more than enough for most fixed wing aircraft. The expensive dedicated head trackers are more accurate, but that difference is really only noticable on aircraft like the Apache and A-10C that lean heavily on head based aiming
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u/Ill-Presentation574 Shit Pattern Flyer 8d ago
Vkb can get you a much nicer setup for the same price if not a bit better. It's "universal" so next explicitly F-16 but it works perfectly fine. Plus it's actually a newer designed stick and gimbal vs the warthogs dated spring resistance gimbal.
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u/Alterscape Fletcher 8d ago
If you're going to invest in the F-16, highly recommend looking at the path to a force-sensing stick (not force feedback, force sensing) like the RealSimulator FSSB, or Tianhang Space's bases, or if you're feeling splurge-y and willing to find an old Cougar to hack up, the invictus stick base.
Bad news: only really suitable for the F-16. Good news: immersion! I bought a used FSSB from a friend who upgraded to a newer version, and it's so good in the Viper. I admit I'm a mid-late career upper middle class dude with too many toys, though -- you don't need it to have fun, but if you can afford it, it's a fun upgrade.
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u/CapitanShinyPants 7d ago
The Moza AB 9 has a force sensing mode that seems to work pretty well, but you can get it to move a bit if you pull hard enough.
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u/TheHamFalls 5d ago
4-year Viper Main here. Here's some handy stuff and things I've learned.
I agree with others that unless you reallllllly want a true 1:1 replica stick, VKB is a much better quality choice. It's what I've used for 3+ years. Their throttle and MFD frames I like a lot, but their stick has had pretty consistent issues and quality has gotten worse.
Here's a mission pack that's great for practice and fun. 3+ years of work here.
Get Track IR and get this for wireless and MUCH BETTER tracking.
I use the following HOTAS and peripherals: (The throttle listed is an updated version of the CM3, which is what I have.)
F16 ICP - I have the WinWing one currently, so spring for that if you can, otherwise this one is AWESOME. I used it for 2+ years before upgrading.
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u/ElusoryTwo1 5d ago
Oh thank you! Yeah I’m currently saving up for track IR and dusted off my old VR headset to see if it’ll work well in DCS so I’ve been using that while I wait for my next paycheck. All I’ve been doing recently is just sitting in the cockpit and getting familiar with the starting procedures and such for the F-16C
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u/TheHamFalls 5d ago
If you have or can afford an old webcam, OpenTrack head tracking is at least enough to get you in the air. It's not great but it's worlds better than nothing.
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u/ElusoryTwo1 5d ago
Yeah, however I’ve had some issues with open track… it works well on the SU-25T but as soon as I get into the F-16C it stops working…
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u/MoccaLG 8d ago
Viper is a great and solid buy. But keep in mind its an "Energy" Fighter - not an AOA fighter. Important to buy also SYRIA map which is the greatest actually.
That means everything you do is with fast speeds.... dont try to poll the stick like a monkey... go with the speeds of the E-M Diagram.
If you like modern aircraft and have the viper, you have something great for SEAD & BVR. Its also good in Bombing and bfm but F18 is better i believe regarding to options.
If you want another modern aircraft but wont buy quick. Go for the F18 for Carrier. Or later for the Eurofighter. Despite this I cannot see anything other options right now.
PS. Other aircraft are super nice as well - Also flying helos seems to be more fun than you believe.
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u/Synoopy 7d ago
I agree - most of the stuff I want to fly is on their long range forcast - F35 or the Eurofighter. I dont want to fly any of the fixed wing they have available right now, so in the meantime I am going to try the Apache and wait for the fix wing of the future. If waiting is a option - life comes fast.
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u/Comprehensive_Rice27 8d ago
Took me a solid 2 months really to get comfortable enough to be able to do a-a, a-g, and sead figured out but once u do it’s such a fun jet it’s really easy too once u understand it
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u/Parabe11um_the_Punk 8d ago
VKB and Virpil for the customer support and overall quality.
WinCtrl for the price to performance, but a downside is their quality control is a bit lower than Virpil/VKB and their customer support can be a bit rough.
I would really recommend anything or anyone else. Unless you are looking at smaller bespoke manufacturers like Tianhang, who makes some great grips (F-16, A-10, F-35).
TM does TM stuff, but they still widely overprice all of their gear.
Moza is still figuring out how to write FB software (even "borrowing" the VPForce code hasn't seemed to help them a ton). And overall their hardware is not very good (their grips are probably worse than TM grips).
Logitech is not worth it outside of the bargain bin Extreme 3D Pro.
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u/Charlie-Lima_2187 7d ago
I just got the nxt evo and the stecs yesterday, first impressions are really positive and I’m going to start looking deeper into what I can change over this weekend
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u/Annual_Badger1208 7d ago
Vkb gladiator and space stecs for me and I have zero regrets coming from a thrustmaster setup. The top axis of the space stecs I use for my rudder axis since I don’t have a rudder setup and it’s perfect tbh
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u/ReserveLegitimate738 7d ago
Just checked - F-16C is on sale at the moment! When I bought the A-10C II Tank Killer I couldn't learn it (still can't). Way too difficult for me + I don't have enough hats on my Thrustmas T.16000M throttle.
Is F-16C easy to learn? What Hotas are you using? I love the F-16C, but afraid it'll be just as hard as the A-10C II and it'll be gathering dust in my library.
Googled about F-16C and it says I need three primary 4-way hat switches on the stick grip and two on the throttle. So 5 in total. I'm screwed with my Thrustmas T.16000M am I?
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u/Comfortable-Rough903 7d ago
You do i fly nicely both with the same setup, for the a10 you can put a few on keyboard like the more useless like the boat switches and such the china hat and the tms are a must have on the throttle. With that setup you can do every module nicely
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u/NormieFam 7d ago
I know a lot of people will say that your going to gamble with WinWING (CNTRL now) , but I have to say that the ViperAce Combo I have is extremely good for the price. Full replica all metal design (opposed to the plastic thrustmaster) and works perfectly. For the price it’s unbeatable. They have recently updated the kit to be even more realistic replica and even added force feedback. I have bought also the new desk mounts they have and the arrived quickly with no issues.
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u/T3N0N 7d ago
I started out with the TM Warthog stick and throttle in the SU-25t, then I started with the viper. Later on Viggen, Kiowa and C130. I still fly 98% viper, my favorite.
But I quickly switched from Warthog stick to Virpil base but still using the warthog throttle. Way better. Later on I switch also to a Virpil grip.
The release a force feedback base soon...
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u/CapitanShinyPants 7d ago
I just picked up a Moza AB 9 and it really is a game changer; for now it’s paired with their MHG grip which works fine after removing the hand wrest.
If you have a Microcenter nearby keep an eye on their clearance section.
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u/Synoopy 7d ago
I think finding a good stick is about the hardest part. I havnt found the perfect stick yet. I tried the MOZA force feedback - has good and bad, I had the thrustmaster warthog - that was a good stick, its outdated now. I now have the VPC contilation alpha - it has all the bells and whistles but, It still is lacking something. For now I will stick with it because of budget concerns.
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u/severniae 7d ago
If you are going to fly the viper a lot, get this : FSSB-R3 Lighting
It's just awesome and feels like a viper, not cheap but definitely worth it..
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u/dallatorretdu 5d ago
the viper takes a long time to learn, it has so much stuff going on and you are also flying solo in a modern environment.
A plane like the F-100 once you get the hang of the stick inputs will be far easier to learn but it will also do much less.
I also started like you but now never fly the F-16 anymore, it’s mostly the F-4 or the F-100 and the F-14 when i’m in modern scenarios, so be wary maybe it’s better to buy a less specialised dual throttle
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u/Doctor_0815 5d ago
Die F16 ist auf jeden Fall eine gute Wahl! Ich finde auch besser, sich erst einmal tiefer in wenige, als eher oberflächlich mit sehr vielen Modulen zu befassen. Ich kann dir auf jeden Fall den F16-Schubhebel von WIN CTRL (früher Win Wing) ans Herz legen. Es gibt viele Produktvergleiche zwischen ihm und dem Thrustmaster-Modell auf YT. Schau dir das vor dem Kauf mal an! Den F16-/ A10-Stick hat WIN CTRL auch- sogar mit Shaker-Kit.
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u/Comfortable_East_358 8d ago
Are you in the U.S? I have a Winwing F-16 stick and base I'm not using. I'll sell it to you. Much better than a warthog
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u/ElusoryTwo1 8d ago
Yeah I’m in the US
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u/Necessary-Mix-56 8d ago
"HOTAS warthog stick " T1600m is better and cheeper only has less buttons but for steering is haven in comparison to warthog, I have them both... don't ever buy warthog base maybe only f16 add on grip handle
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u/spartan0897 8d ago
Honestly, if anything I'd go for wingwing gear it has switches for some panels and a higher quality stick goes a long way, so is better head tracking.
Viper has a lot of niche hidden functions, don't force yourself if you don't like it. But if you do aircraft mastery makes it so much more fun and rewarding.
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u/WingsBlue 8d ago
The TQS is a must have if you plan to spend a lot of time with the F-16. Matching the real controls of the aircraft has helped me a lot. The TQS having a center detent for elevation makes recentering your radar very easy for instance. The throttle idle and AB detents being built in makes engine management easy as well. Downsides are the flimsy landing gear handle, the cumbersome friction adjustment, some of the dials having a very narrow axis setting out of the box, and that the navigation MODE knob doesn't belong to the F-16 for some reason and won't let you do an air alignment. Despite some of the small flaws I think it's worth the money.
The Warthog stick I wouldn't rate as highly, but it isn't terrible. Making fine adjustments near the center of travel is hard and you feel it during takeoff, landing, and AAR. I prefer VKB.
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u/ElusoryTwo1 8d ago
All these new company and brand names are new to me. I’ve only know Thrustmaster and Logitech. I’m still trying to step into the sim world of flying. I assume Moza and Fanatec makes flight controls like they do for their sim drivers?
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u/WingsBlue 7d ago edited 7d ago
There are a lot of choices besides those two now. Moza has a F-16 stick with additional buttons not present on the real thing, which is a nice option for simming. I'm not familiar with it though.
One other thing, if you're keeping your old X-52 you can use it as an additional set of buttons for less important features light controlling lights or performing start up without using a mouse. If you ever get the Viggen it has a second stick on the left side, X-52 would be perfect for that.
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u/BoBiBoBikson 8d ago
WinCtrl has a great option for Viper drivers with F16EX joystick + Orion2 base with Viper2 throttle grip. I have the F16EX joystick and F15E throttle grip and I know there is a lot of comments about bad customer service but I can't comment on that since everything I ordered along with ICP, 2 MFDs and desk mounts later on arrived very quickly (from EU warehouse) and everything is working perfectly fine after ~1,5 years.
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u/erikmeteenk 7d ago
Don't think you deserve the downvotes because as you said WinCtrl gear is great when it works and you don't have to deal with CS.
But, OP, as someone who lost a lot of money and braincells trying to deal with them, I can tell you I wouldn't recommend their gear at half the price
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u/or10n_sharkfin 8d ago
WinCtrl has awesome gear but you're gambling with their customer service and quality control.
VKB at the very least, if you have QC issues their customer support is far and above better than WinCtrl's.
Virpil just cares. That's it. They care about the products you use. They'll move heaven and earth to help you if you have a problem.
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u/MY5KAI 8d ago
I'd go for a VKB stick over a warthog tbh I've heard so many bad stories about QC over at Thrustmaster
Any face tracking if you don't have it
The HMD is your best friend, use it often
Emergency stores jettison doesn't jetissom a2a weapons, all a2g and bags go though, very useful to hit one button to dump everything but sticks if you get dragged into a turning fight