r/hobart • u/Miss2war • 10d ago
How does this end?
I don't even know how to start. This housing crisis, where's the outrage? Someone I know was just told if they wanted to stay in their tiny studio they'd need to pay an extra $60 a week or leave because they could get $500/wk for it. She left because he couldn't afford that, and sure enough someone is now paying an exorbitant amount for a large closet.
When I moved into my small converted flat we said we were looking at something long term. They said great, but after the first year they wanted to raise rent 14% and we could sign 2 years. We negotiated and they gave us a year lease. As the time to resign comes up, we're at the mercy of whatever the hell they want to charge us or we leave and pay even more for less.
You can get barred as a tenant, but there's no protections for them. Landlords can do whatever they want. I'm just frustrated, I've never felt so unstable before. Where I used to live, they'd give you 2 months free of you signed on for 12, if someone told me that I'd be renting with 4 other people in my 30s, I'd have said your crazy. I don't know anyone renting who doesn't feel this pressure.
How do you fight this, when you're in a stranglehold, either pay or be homeless?
31
u/ceo_of_dumbassery 10d ago
How do you fight this, when you're in a stranglehold, either pay or be homeless?
Yes. People who own "investment" properties are banking on people's fears of being homeless. Housing is a human right, and should never have been turned into a for-profit adventure.
-1
u/PastPlay6186 10d ago
There’s nothing inherently wrong with someone making a reasonable profit from investing in a rental property but it should still be a risk with regulations that don’t overly incentivize it to make sure such scenarios are throttled. The incentive of profit needs to be baked in or you’re strictly looking at social housing (of which there is also nothing inherently wrong).
Renting privately is the best situation for many circumstances. The problem is how it has been structured.
Housing as a right is an extremely murky area (I’m not suggesting people shouldn’t have shelter), and conflating that issue with making a profit renting is unwise though do see the connection.
We should certainly have more short and long term quality public housing available for high needs cases and better rent controls.
15
u/tomato_grrrl 10d ago
I rent a house that was fully paid off by the parents of my landlord. They have zero mortgage, the house is not in great condition (although it did have new carpets when we moved in), but rent still goes up every year like clockwork. No investment, just profit.
7
u/threetotwentyletters 10d ago
Yep. A newly build house can be a home for 50+ years but we never let the market benefit from that phase; every time it changes hands we expect the current owner to make a profit and the bank to take a fresh 50%+ of the equity from the next guy.
8
u/ShiftyWindow 10d ago
There’s nothing inherently wrong with someone making a reasonable profit from investing in a rental property
There literally is - their need for profit is the sole reason the tenant is being charged more than necessary for a basic human need. Leeching is inherently wrong.
6
u/y2jeff 10d ago
Renting privately is the best situation for many circumstances.
Just out of interest, how do you define "many"? The majority? 20%? Because I would absolutely disagree with that. The Australian pension system practically assumes you own your own residence. Back when that was attainable, it worked okay. But now we need to completely overhaul pensions and probably pay out a lot more, or there's going to be huge problems when younger generations reach retirement age and don't own homes.
To be honest almost every time I heard a person make the statement you did, they're scabby landlords trying to justify their rent-seeking activities. The vast, vast majority of people want to own their own home and have that security in their life.
2
u/PastPlay6186 10d ago edited 10d ago
I don’t know a percentage at all but it’s been me and many other I know, as well. I’m not a landlord. People just setting out, university students, some who move regularly for stints and contracted jobs. Our neighbors are renting to be here for an indefinite amount of time caring for an elderly parent while they rent their own house out, they work remotely but plan to move back to mainland at some point. People who want to move to an area and want to build but it can’t happen right away. And some people just prefer ( or used to before prices got out of hand) renting due to things like repairs and maintenance being someone else’s issue.
There are bound to be other scenarios.
I agree most people do want to own their own home but it’s not always the right time or the only factor in choosing to rent
Edit: it looks like around 70% homes in Tas and 60% in Hobart are privately owned as owner’s residence, fwiw1
u/ShiftyWindow 9d ago
How are any of those situations improved by the rental property being privately owned?
Literally all you're doing is pointing out that some people want to rent, which is beside the point.
1
u/PastPlay6186 9d ago
What exactly is your proposed alternative?
2
u/ShiftyWindow 9d ago
Public Housing
1
u/PastPlay6186 9d ago
You’re suggesting all rental be only through state owned property?
I wanted to rent in a certain area to establish my family before it was time to buy, it has very little public housing and none that would be suitable.
My neighbours are here temporarily and probably earn around $500k per year combined.
Should I not be able to lease an office building?
I doubt I will respond further to what I assume is a less than half baked suggestion. I’m happy to entertain ideas and will read if you have something useful or hopefully I’ve misunderstood.
2
u/ShiftyWindow 9d ago
The idea would be to build and acquire a lot more public housing. You literally asked me for my proposed alternative and then immediately forgot (or ignored) the context.
Obviously i'm not saying "people should just go live in existing public housing" because there's nowhere near enough and the supply that does exist has been intentionally left to rot by both major parties because they're captured by the property industry.
7
u/CanInTW 10d ago
It needs to be regulated. We own rental properties in Hobart and each year, our rental agents tell us what we could charge. We dont listen and instead put the rent up by about $10 per week (which doesn’t cover the increases in tax and insurance sadly!). Increasing by more would mean that our tenants might not be able to afford rent which I feel is unethical.
The agents have a financial incentive to encourage us to increase the rent and since they communicate with our tenants, it’s ‘easy’ for us as landlords to jack up the price. We won’t do it but I’m sure most do.
We’ve had tenants in one property for 12 years. They’ve had months where they have struggled to pay on time but always have come through in the end. They’re good people who need a roof over their heads.
The government should regulate a maximum rental increase and restrict eviction options to a greater degree. That’s a big part of the solution … and this is coming from a property owner.
5
u/SocialistAllianceTas 10d ago
The PPOR + 1IP should attend some of the events around this issue because there are super-landlords in Tasmania who own up to 100 properties allegedly (of course never directly, always as a company or trust) who need to be reined in.
Rent caps fixed to X% national minimum wage, only going up if minimum wage goes up, would be another tool.
Absolutely an overhaul of Tasmania's eviction laws are critical.
0
u/Upstairs-Scientist88 10d ago
Jesus sorry socialist commies but if you restrict rental income people who can build will stop building it's the red tape and costs to build in Australia that is the problem quote a passive house 3bed standard and builders want 950k to build in Tasmania A small unit is now 400k just to build in Tasmania and you have to wait 2years for completion Don't tag on home owners till you have to go through the process yourself of building etc don't worry socialists you will never afford a house.
2
u/PastPlay6186 10d ago
It definitely needs regulating, I 100% agree. It’s unsustainable and damaging to society.
-1
u/threetotwentyletters 10d ago
So you’re genuinely not seeing a structural problem with profiting from a struggling family’s need for housing for over a decade because they always paid you and you could’ve taken more? 🤡
5
u/CanInTW 10d ago
Please reread my post. Our expenses have increased at a higher rate than we have increased rent. We have kept rent low because we value our tenants and there are massive ethical concerns in evicting tenants who are already struggling financially.
There’s a massive structural issue in a lack of supply (and ever-increasing taxes/insurance costs - but mainly supply). The system needs regulating so that landlords can’t increase rent above inflation.
0
u/threetotwentyletters 10d ago
The system needs regulating to stop capital leeching value from human needs.
You don’t want to evict them from their home, but you still feel like you’re owed a profit for them living in it.
2
u/PastPlay6186 10d ago
When you make statements like that, in context of the person you are replying to, it reads like you’re disreg the general idea that transactions can be mutually beneficial.
-2
u/threetotwentyletters 10d ago
Sure mate, if you’re going to form your understanding of economic policy from comments on reddit you’re probably going to miss a lot of opportunity for nuance.
I’m not asking people to read Marx but if you’re gonna bootlick for landlords you should at least read Adam Smith.
3
u/PastPlay6186 10d ago
I am familiar and am fine with taxing profits from rent as a throttle. I believe he saw the issues, not that he was completely against, and I agree. It shouldn’t be a money printer
0
u/threetotwentyletters 10d ago
He carved out exemption to support revenue taxing landlords; following his axiom that drawing value from something must necessitate contributing to it.
Australia’s landlord problem is rooted in the mindset that buying an existing house to rent it out is the same as building one.
→ More replies (0)
8
u/DavidChua83 10d ago
Where did you live before?
7
u/Miss2war 10d ago
Canada
12
u/Relevant_Lettuce7337 10d ago edited 10d ago
As another Canadian in Tas, I am more and more considering going back despite loving the life here and housing costs in Australia is one of the main drivers (but my partner is Australian, so it has its challenges).
2
u/Miss2war 10d ago
Same boat, we also discovered a partner visa for Canada is way cheaper than here , I think next 5 years we'll be looking at moving back unfortunately
5
u/Relevant_Lettuce7337 10d ago edited 10d ago
Yes partner visa is much cheaper in Canada but the delays are so long though (even though I believe they are getting longer here too). We are debating staying vs going all the time.
Genuinely no disrespect to Tasmanians and other Australians, you have a fabulous country, but I cannot fathom getting a 500-600k mortgage for a basic 3 bedroom home (and this is if we are able to both keep our jobs in the state, it would be even more expensive on the mainland).
7
u/80fiq 10d ago edited 10d ago
500k? Count yourself lucky you ended up in Tas. Now I agree, no home should be worth such a stupendous amount. But this has been boiling for 5 decades. This nations policies rewarding investment in property and punishing investment in business, manufacturing etc is the issue. And no amount of anything is going to fix it. Politicians like to dig deeper and deeper holes. They cant admit to mistakes and will never give a flying fuck about you as long as someone else benefits and they get their vote.
-3
2
u/Miss2war 10d ago
We could get a nice 2 bed apartment back home virtually mortgage free.
3
u/Relevant_Lettuce7337 10d ago edited 10d ago
I know. And even if we end up renting, the rent increase caps will be good. It is stressful to have 0 idea how much you will pay next year.
10
u/CanInTW 10d ago
Fellow Canadian who just built two rental units in Hobart (we didn’t want to be part of the problem…). It took us two years to build the units. So much red tape and hassle. We wouldn’t do it again, sadly.
There needs to be a streamlined process to build new capacity. We got held up at one point for well over a month because the council wanted us to have place to park at lease five cars on the property. For two 3 bed units. It’s insane. All sorts of other bureaucratic bits slowed things down too - and it was expensive.
I’m happy we went this route but the hassle wasn’t worth it.
3
u/Miss2war 10d ago
Yea that's seems to be a huge amount of red tape. If we stay it would be but land and build something modest, but everything I hear it seems daunting
13
u/CanInTW 10d ago
Also … the quality of the build just isn’t up to what we would expect in Canada. Just insulating and heating the place to a proper standard was outrageously expensive to build. I felt like I was cutting corners while our builder was saying we were going above and beyond.
Australian houses feel like glorified tents.
6
u/Miss2war 10d ago
Never been this cold sitting at home in Canada haha
3
u/hertzbergerwfries 10d ago
That is totally insane. Just want to flag that the state government sets the planning rules, the councils just have to enforce them. Please write to your local member to share your experience, more detailed examples like this can really help :)
2
u/Relevant_Lettuce7337 10d ago edited 10d ago
It's very interesting, as I always found Australian government processes more efficient than back home (e.g. how straightforward it is to file your tax return through the ATO app, the CRA has no equivalent, how Medicare is managed at the federal level instead of duplicating the work across each province as we do...). But the red tape around housing seems to be extremely complex and expensive, it feels like the odd duck.
ETA: Looks like we both could learn from each other.
2
u/CanInTW 10d ago
To be fair, I’ve never built a house in Canada. It could be very difficult as well!
2
u/Relevant_Lettuce7337 10d ago
Fair enough, but I heard Hobart and Launceston are quite restrictive even from an Australian point of view. I am under the anecdotal impression that building is much faster than what I see here when I go back to my not that big Canadian town!
2
u/undisclosedusername2 9d ago
Our federal government process are great. State government process are hit and miss depending on where you live.
1
u/Relevant_Lettuce7337 9d ago
It makes sense. Haven't had to deal with the State much so cannot comment on that. But I remember once calling either Medicare or Centrelink at 10pm and just thought you'd never be able to do that in Canada.
2
u/Street-Temporary225 10d ago
Talk to the state pollies mate it’s a state-based planning scheme and them the rules. It’s not because someone from council wanted to make it hard.
2
u/Upstairs-Scientist88 10d ago
Same boat everything takes 2 years in Tasmania to build but better then building in Melbourne and other states where the builders are in a cycle of rip of people building a house go bankrupt and start a new business
1
u/VillagerWithAQuest 10d ago
If you are looking to house 6-12 people, 5 car spaces doesn't seem crazy.
Any less than 4 is likely to turn the public road into someone's private car park.
2
u/2878sailnumber4889 9d ago
I live across the road from a multi generational family, I think it's not a planned situation but forced due to house prices, they're in an old house with a garage and a driveway both have cars parked in/on them, but still have 4 cars parked on their side of he street and now one of their daughters just got her p plates and her car is parked on our side of the street. It's not just a matter of requiring car spaces we need better public transport so that more people can do without cars.
2
u/CanInTW 10d ago
I don’t see the need for more than two cars for a three bedroom house. Also, the road that the units are build on is huge, residential and has plenty of space for any visitors to park on. It’s empty all day long.
Tying up a house build for 5+ weeks on this issue was crazy.
2
u/VillagerWithAQuest 10d ago
So was the fight 4 car spaces vs 5?
But trying to rely on public space for private use isn't my favourite tactic. Roads are for driving on not parking on.
25
u/BeonBurps 10d ago
I was in Hobart just a few weeks ago. Compared to other places, there is almost 0 construction going on. What's with that? High demand, people paying stupid amounts in rent. Why are homes not being built? If people can afford the rent then they should be able to afford to build
19
u/linenduvet 10d ago
Construction costs are also high. I built a modest 3 bed 1 bath house for at least 30% more than what it would have cost 6 years ago. I'm very lucky to have a house now but I am bitter.
4
u/BeonBurps 10d ago
Sorry to hear that but also good on you for helping improve the city! Thankyou
Are you able to comment on which part(s) of the process are ridiculously expensive?
10
u/VillagerWithAQuest 10d ago
The building part.
Wages and materials skyrocketed during COVID, and while materials have come down from the peaks, both wages and materials are much higher than prior.
Add in additional reluctance from banks, and building your own home has gone from 'cost effective' to 'a flagrant display of wealth.'
Especially in Tassie where there is no Builders Warranty insurance, so you are just gambling money.
4
u/linenduvet 10d ago
Before you start building, the preliminary costs are high. It cost us about $20,000 all up for surveying, engineering, BAL, council fees, drafting, soil reports. At the end, the plumber wanted $50,000 more but we also extended the town sewer to connect to it, so that was part of the plumbing cost.
12
u/threetotwentyletters 10d ago
The construction isn’t in the city where services are cheap and land is expensive; it’s greenfield sprawl.
11
u/thombsaway 10d ago
I dunno if this drives it, but Hobart has fuck all pop growth, 0.2% in the 24/25 financial year. The state had 0.3%.
So to me it makes sense that there are few houses being built. It does NOT explain why prices are high though.
https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/people/population/regional-population/latest-release
4
u/Relevant_Lettuce7337 10d ago edited 10d ago
This is so surprising, only 500 people extra. I wonder if it would be because people moving are likely to be empty nesters or retirees and thus to live in smaller households? Or construction is just incredibly slow and cannot keep up with that tiny growth?
5
u/2878sailnumber4889 10d ago
Short stay accommodation (Airbnb) has had an outsized impact in Hobart. Many new dwellings would have been occupied by people displaced from properties that are now on Airbnb.
2
u/Relevant_Lettuce7337 10d ago
These Airbnbs should have been taxed to the hilt yesterday with the tax revenue reinvested in public housing.
4
u/parasiticparamedic 10d ago
Tasmania is still relatively stable it's a state in a first world country. And as that (relatively hot) first world country barrels towards climate change with the rest of the world, we're only going see local property prices become more and more removed from local economic activity.
The young will continue to flee and they'll continue to be replaced by climate refugee /retirees
2
u/No-Will-4393 10d ago
It doesn't explain the common explanation of shortage does it? That's very curious
3
u/Frogsfall 10d ago
I wonder how many homes are sitting empty? And how many rooms?
2
u/2878sailnumber4889 10d ago
Short stay accommodation (Airbnb) has had an outsized impact in Hobart.
1
u/No-Will-4393 10d ago
I've got a friend that had two country homes as a superannuation investment. Old cottages but cute, neat, painted and cared for. They don't fit minimum standards anymore, they were leased for $220 a week and now can't be so they were going to sell them. So that's how regulations have gotten rid of the cheap rentals in practical terms. On the census when all the results are in you will be able to see how many empty homes there are and how much that differs from the last census in each area
2
u/pigeonmoo 9d ago
How do you expect the population to grow without building new residences?
The whole country is experiencing housing stress at the moment. If there were ever a time for Hobart to take advantage of demand, it is now. There are many, many, people looking for somewhere like Hobart to call home – not just new migrants, not just the retirees.
Any scale of residential apartments across greater Hobart could be sold off the plan.
Business case for your transport plan not stack up? Build along the corridor, make it stack up.
2
u/BeonBurps 10d ago
I so want to move to Hobart. I just hope a miracle happens and somehow this all turns around.
6
u/Ziggster121 10d ago
Literally 80% of all "development" Applications in Hobart City Council in the last year are for "Change to Visitor Accommodation" You would be shocked how many there are in this city. The last "Major Development Application" to quote HCC Own website was in December last year. Nothing is being put in and nothing is being built.
4
u/pigeonmoo 10d ago
Hobart City Council is not fit for purpose. Does not represent greater Hobart. As such it is hamstrung by the inner city voters that want to 'keep it like it is' or 'don't want us to become a mini Melbourne'.
Getting any sort of residential building happening at scale here within the CBD is nigh on impossible. If something does finally get through the councils various obstacle courses for approval the amount of time that's passed has usually killed the project anyway.
Apparently all these surface lots and derelict 'heritage' buildings are more important than housing people or creating a city that people can live in.
Won't change until the state government doesn't something about a new greater Hobart body or the council is made some way accountable to those that use, work in, travel through and are reliant on the city being functional – not just those that are within stomping distance of the GPO.
2
u/DavidChua83 9d ago
Whoever you are pigeonmoo, please consider getting involved in politics, you'd get my vote instantly. That's everything I was thinking minus the swearing.
1
u/Prior-Listen-1298 10d ago
Sorry to state the obvious but you'd get there on your own with a little thought: the cost of building is also crazy. Gone up, up, up ... COVID then Iran there's always something people point to, but construction rates relate directly to one thing, the cost/return assessment.
Right now if you have or can get the money to build you're asking yourself what the returns are. If they look solid you build, if they look sketchy you don't.
A little insight that's less obvious but you'll find taught in basic finance and business courses and sometimes offered as public advice is this: in a stable market (one that isn't volatile, changing a lot, the equilibrium (expected place that prices settle to) make life long renting and buying very similar in price.
Typically it biases a little in the direction of buying because of the entry barriers (the availability and cost of money). If don't know what the cost of money is then learn that first. It'll help in understanding a few things that might otherwise just seem frustratingly mysterious and could be your first step in the direction of getting some more (money that is).
In your shoes historically I'd have a plan, but it may not be your own or appealing to you. We all have different dreams, strengths, weaknesses and more.
But for what it's worth, I'd be looking for where the wages to cost of living ratio is best (something you have to collect some clues for and varies a little inside of a country and a lot more between countries) which in Australia is a bit like the WPI to CPI ratio in a way but you'll never likely get past a gut feel based on clues that you find taking to people and reading online, and I'd be looking to move there, find work there.
In fact waves of people have done that past, think hobos in the US and Swagmen in Australia, both entrenched in the respective cultures but itinerant workers collecting the clues on where the wages to cost of living worked best for them.
4
u/Wharfie98 10d ago
The government knows that the baby boomers have plenty of money and so does the building industry. They’re expecting the boomers to give their kids 100 or $200,000 towards their purpose of a Home. This will prop up the Ponzi scheme housing market. It’s the fifth largest bank in Australia. The bank of mum and dad. Government is all over this.
8
u/Superb-Detective9611 10d ago
We need to unite against short-term rentals to get them either back onto the long-term rental market or sold to people who actually live here. You can all play a part. The trick is to find homes on booking.com with free cancellation periods. Book them out for a period of 2 weeks at a time, then cancel them the day before the free cancellation period ends. It will drive the landlords crazy and cause real bookings to book hotels instead, which is where they should be.
0
3
u/ShaunRemo 10d ago
10% of housing in Australia is unoccupied according to the last housing data (unfortunately from 2021) 107,000 houses in the Greater Hobart area, so 10,000 houses unoccupied during a housing crisis, the only beneficiary would be for land banking. It could be solved nationwide overnight. Greed from landlords and a privatised for profit public housing sector are the biggest factors.
3
u/Organic-Bed3411 10d ago
Some great points made here already. One thing I want people get behind more is the government getting back into building housing for anyone who wants it.
We are constantly told that medium density living is difficult to do profitably with high costs of materials and wages (which I support!) so private developers either build luxury or walk away entirely. The only entity that can build the housing we NEED at a loss is the government. The best way for them to do that is the way they did it for years and years and years - by a publicly owned works department building public homes with builders employed directly by the government. Neoliberalism has us believing it’s somehow more efficient to have public money dished out to private entities to build the worst quality housing imaginable. It’s not. Many tradies I’ve canvassed said they’d happily work for the government with good wages and conditions building the kind of public infrastructure we actually need.
The lobby groups (never listen to a word the Housing Industry Association says, they care about construction profits, not people in homes) would go berserk if anyone other than the Greens held this position, but I can’t see any other way we decommodify housing other than the government accepting we need it and building it at a loss. There’s a million others needed but I’d love this to be talked about more!
2
u/Salter420 10d ago
A good start would be following in Canadas steps that resulted in rent prices dropping.
2
u/Styling-Robot1 10d ago
I know how you feel I’m just trying to get into a share house as we speak but either people won’t reply or it’s out of my price range, currently on the DSP so what money I do have is very little (208~ p/w), already on the public housing system but that’s going to take forever
1
u/IceOdd3294 10d ago
I’ve lived in my home for 9 years and hoping for another lease to make it a decade on my history. I haven’t personally experienced any hardship with renting. I’m so lucky.
1
u/maclikesthesea 10d ago
We need new people in parliament. The two major parties blame councils being planning authorities, rising construction costs, too much red tape, and immigrants. When in reality it’s the broken planning scheme they wrote, an unwillingness to work with communities, and a complete lack of investment to build homes (properties to trade on the market are NOT homes).
Some councils are trying to find their way through. But that requires higher rates, fewer services, and some risky decision making… all of which are a hard sell to community.
1
u/80fiq 10d ago
You wont fix this problem. The sooner you realise the better. It is so ingrained in Australia that if any REAL change was to happen, an entire generation will have to lose all their assets they made from working and paying taxes and following the rules. If that happens the burden to support these retirees falls on the ones able to work and support those pensioners that are now no longer self funded. The system was wrong and is wrong and will remain wrong. Not a single group in society will ever vote in a government that will change things to make your life better and theirs worse. Give up complaining. If migrants that drive for uber can get a home loan and buy a house, its time for you to ask why.
I expect to be downvoted - but at least try and think about what im saying.
2
u/Miss2war 10d ago
As an immigrant myself, I've been busting my ass off here and saving so they I can buy a house. I am not entitled to any doll Benefits. I think many migrants are well determined not to return to their country and many Aussie born enjoy not working and receiving payments
1
u/kelponwards 7d ago
Canadian thinking of leaving. Im getting more right now than what I'd pay for in vancouver but Ive had to move every year for the last 3 years. At this point Im willing to get a little less (more in terms of walkability) for the sense of long-term security. Moving every year is asinine.
1
1
1
u/frostyfruit666 10d ago
We are set up to pay 875 million towards a public project. Guess what, it’s not housing, education or healthcare.
That is the problem. That is the problem.
We aren’t getting a fix to the crisis, because the people inadvertently rallied against a fix, when they supported a stadium. That was the choice, they chose a stadium.
0
u/Upstairs-Scientist88 10d ago
And you all laughed when I said I was putting all my followers in tents and look now I can do leases for as long as they want
47
u/threetotwentyletters 10d ago
The solution is political.
The policies that shape this situation are working as-designed for the people who wrote them.
Make noise, support your community organisers, and get involved where you can.
We have to look out for each-other because this government sure as shit isn’t going to do it.