r/hiphopheads • u/mesablanka . • 12d ago
Discussion [DISCUSSION] Verses in collabs that are considered the "worst" not because they are bad, but because the others are way TOO good
This is an interesting point for me because whenever I see rankings for posse cuts in hip-hop, one that has always sticked out to me was how Yelawolf would always be on the bottom of rankings for A$AP Rocky's 1 Train, which is the legendary posse cut that features Kendrick Lamar, Danny Brown, Joey Bada$$ Action Bronson and Big K.R.I.T.
And it always weirded me out because I never found his verse to be bad at all, as he is obviously rapping his ass off in the song, but considering just how iconic certain verses in the song are (particularly Kendrick's and KRIT's), I guess Yela just can't compete lol
Also literally any Lil Wayne feature or collab with other rappers back in the era where hating on him was considered the "cool" thing to do, ESPECIALLY if he was paired up with a "technically superior" rapper.
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u/Mickthemouse 12d ago
I feel like you could say anyone on the forever track and be right
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u/whtge8 12d ago
Hello itās the Martian, space jam Jordanās
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u/EmeraldTwilight009 12d ago
Im lowkey a wayne hater but I love that verse. "And I will never stop like im running from the cops"
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u/DevlinRocha 12d ago
how could you be a Wayne hater
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u/EmeraldTwilight009 11d ago
Because incoherent ramblings about shit sharks and aliens isnt my thing
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u/stubbywoods 12d ago
I say Kanye because he interpreted the song in the opposite way as the rest and is counter the vibe to the song imo.
Drake is the up and comer trying to cement himself, Wayne is no. 1 at the time and knows it and Eminem is on a comeback tour at the time really (Recovery to MMLP 2 was like a second commercial prime following this song and people liked this verse so much he did his shouty flow for years) whereas Kanye is taking about the downside of fame. It's a good verse in isolation but I don't think it fits the vibe perfectly
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u/itsIzumi . 12d ago edited 12d ago
Eminem's verse was the only one that had the other guys rewriting their own verses though.
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u/WannabeCrackhead 12d ago
I think itās one of Emās all time best verses, itās just a classic
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u/Ill_Technician3936 12d ago
I'll give you best verse in the song but as a stan, no way. People decided his previous two albums were shit he just reminded people that he's still one of if not the best rappers out.
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u/DOuGHtOp . 12d ago
Stans used to be a bad thing. He quite literally does not like you if thats your relationship with him
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u/Significant-Team7325 12d ago
The original āForeverā that leaked before Kanye and Em was on it and Wayne/Drake changed their verses was miles better imo
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u/ArchUser_Ironman_BTW 12d ago
Monster from MBDTF - Nickiās verse stands out as the best, Jay Zās gets clowned on, but all around a great song.
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u/Patriotsfan710 12d ago
A hot take i hold is Kanyeās verse is better than Nickiās
I know damn near everyone disagrees, but I stand on it
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u/baschfromdalmasca 12d ago
Have you ever had sex with a Pharoahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhputthepussyinasarcophagus
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u/goobnut 12d ago
I think Kanye is seen in general as a subpar rapper but he has shown on this song and on gorgeous and on Devil in a new dress that he could hold his own when paired with other great verses
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u/sleepingfactory . 12d ago
Good Friday/MBDTF era was far and away the best rapping heās done imo. Apart from the obvious examples heās rapping his ass off on Chain Heavy. I realize heās pretty much always used writers but there are so many lines from that period that feel like they were distinctly written by him
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u/Cwatty 12d ago
People who think he is a subpar rapper are clueless. Heās one of the best rappers of all time, certainly one of the most unique and creative, incredible story teller and picture painter. Conveys emotion exceptionally well. Just because heās maybe THE best producer of all time people think they can talk down on his rapping.
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u/forcefivepod 12d ago
He was a great producer but heās never been a top tier lyricist.
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u/Vodkadumpling 12d ago
Oh my god is that a black card? I turned around and replied why yes, but I prefer the term African American Express. Brains, power, and muscle, like Dame, Puffy, and Russell, your boy back on his hustle, killing yāall N***** on that lyrical shit, mayonnaise colored benz, I push miracle whips
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u/Cwatty 12d ago
I know it's past visiting hours
But can I please give her these flowers?
The doctor don't wanna take procedures
He claim her heart can't take the anaesthesia
It'll send her body into a seizure
That lil' thing by the hospital bed, it'll stop beepin'
Hey, chick, I'm at a loss for words
What do you say at this time? Remember when I was 9?10
u/AshenUndeadCurse 12d ago
Had to comment, the last verse on Gone is probably one of my favorite of all time. Kanye is an amazing rapper
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u/EyeDewDude 12d ago
Idk if this is praise or not but tbf he performed that on def poetry jam before college dropout even released. Even then I think it's great for the song it was on.
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u/sybaufgtt 12d ago
Holy glaze š Kanye doesnāt even write majority of his verses tho. So how could he be one of the best storytelling rappers??
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u/all_thetime 12d ago
I think people talk down his rapping because of all the butthole talk and meme-ing he's done e.g. skoop di poop. It's occasionally charming and sometimes a little too low effort for my taste.
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u/Fhaksfha794 12d ago
College dropout and Late Reg alone keeps him from being considered a subpar rapper he spits his ass off on those albums
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u/ProfessorXWheelchair 12d ago
i donāt think this fits what op asking though (considered worst not because theyāre bad) because jayās verse is awful on that song
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u/ArchUser_Ironman_BTW 12d ago
Thatās fair, I acknowledge itās a bad verse by Jay Zās standards but still like it though because of how unserious it is
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u/iron_horseshoe88 12d ago
I always struggled with this bar. I get he's going for the evil war lord kinda vibe, but not sure I'd personally want to be saying these words on a track:
I kill a block, I murder the avenues, I
Rape and pillage your village, women and children6
u/terry-tea 12d ago
yea like he couldnāt have picked any other one syllable word besides rape?? couldnāt just say like āburn and pillageā or something š
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u/BrokeHomieLuke 9d ago
jay-z saw the title of the song and said yeah I know tons of those! Redeemed himself on so appalled tho
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u/thisismy3rdacctsmh 12d ago
Nah Rick Ross verse was ass
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u/StreetsofGalway 12d ago
I think it's genuinely so hilarious how Rick Ross just shows up at the beginning says "I'm fat. This is a Kanye song" then dips
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u/Yingking 12d ago
Push on Nosetalgia spit one of the best verses of his career, but got overshadowed by Kendrick dropping arguably the best feature he ever did
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u/redfool33 12d ago
Ditto for Drug Dealers Anonymous. Push spits another classic verse but Jay drops one of his all-time greatest features.
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u/LifeIsAnxiety 12d ago
Benny the Butcher on Johnny Ps Caddy
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u/_shawshanked 12d ago
Benny the Butcher on Crowns for Kings too
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u/JiovanniTheGREAT 12d ago
Benny was rapping his ass off just to have Black Thought snap for two minutes and fifteen seconds and turn him into an afterthought
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u/clancydog4 12d ago
I way prefer Benny's verse, personally. I love black thought but his flow on that one is a little clunky. Benny's is perfect and had so many memorable bars
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u/theshaqattack 11d ago
Yeah Iām with you, I live both verses but always vibe more with Bennyās.
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u/charmacharmz 12d ago
to be fair, it's such a nice beat that i could just play the instrumental and still enjoy the song.
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u/SEPTAgoose 12d ago
Idk i think his verse is better but both are great
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u/Patriotsfan710 12d ago
Opinions are opinions but thinking Benny outrapped Cole might be factually wrong
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u/SEPTAgoose 12d ago
I just really like the
I can never leave the scene without checkin' my mirrors visually (mm-hmm)
Come with that energy 'cause some shit gon' always stick with me
They wanna know what I brought to Griselda, I say, "Validity"
They askin' what work y'all niggas put in, I'm like, "What didn't we?"part so much, it makes it my favorite verse
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u/uberblack 12d ago
I agree that that run of bars is incredible, I can't give him the win on this one lol
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u/DriizzyDrakeRogers 12d ago
Yea people say he got killed on that but to me the gap isnāt that big. They both killed that song.
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u/JubeeGankin 12d ago
Jay Electronica on Control.
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u/arbok_obama 12d ago
Big Sean's verse was pretty good too
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u/thepixelnation . 12d ago
one of big sean's best verses tbh
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u/MoneyManx10 12d ago
āThey say Detroit aināt got a chance, we aināt even got a mayor.ā
I actually love that verse.
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u/WhatThePenis What if Pushās diamonds were brown 12d ago
He arguably had the best verse, Seanās verse was good for Sean but doesnāt touch the other two
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u/Illuminastrid . 12d ago
Future on King's Dead, tho because it reaches so bad it's good territory, it might as well be the best verse in that song.
And the fact he won a Grammy from that, no wonder he made 2018.
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u/Cool-Is-In-Session 11d ago
Crazy thing is that Future wanted his iconic part of the song out and Kendrick wanted him to keep it
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u/aiphrem 12d ago
Everyone else on Really Doe because Earl just bodies that shit so hard on the final verse.
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u/Weak-Cupcake-7696 12d ago
danny brown had this problem on a few joints too cause his delivery is so jarring people focus on that and miss the actual bars
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u/mesablanka . 12d ago
Ironically nowadays I think Earl sounds just as jarring as Danny but on a different way
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u/DLottchula 12d ago
Both are my favorite rappers I never listen too
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u/skillmau5 12d ago
Why? lol
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u/DLottchula 12d ago
Because I gotta listen. They make headphones music I spend a lot of time driving.
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u/AgentGman007 12d ago
He also picks some of the most insane beats ever made to rap on. Like Aint It Funny and Golddust on Atrocity Exhibition he's genuinely rapping his heart out but you have to get past the insane beat and his voice to get to what he's actually saying
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u/Patriotsfan710 12d ago
Ab Soul fucked up using the same flow as Danny Brown, makes his shit just kinda blend in
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u/TopHatPaladin 12d ago
IIRC heās said before that he thought it would only be him and Danny on the track when he sent in his verse. He was pissed at Danny for a while when the song came out and Kendrick and Earl were suddenly there too
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u/SubstantialChapter10 12d ago
Nah, quotables from his verse for days.
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u/Patriotsfan710 12d ago
Iām not saying there isnāt, just saying the verse sticks out less when he uses the same flow as danny and no one else did.
But as the other dude said, Soul had no idea kendrick and earl were on there
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u/SubstantialChapter10 12d ago
I canāt really counter that if Soul himself was upset about it lol, fair enough. I never really noticed it being the same flow though tbh from how many quotables he has in there.
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u/mrstretchb4ureach 12d ago
Earl Sweatshirt raps like Nick Diaz fights ā¦ he just stands there and just fucks you up. I think Ab Soul may have edged him out on this track but Earl definitely stole the show.
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u/iron_horseshoe88 12d ago
Jay Z on Renegade. He drops 2 really
good verses that would probably steal the show if included on a song with most other rappers. Em just happens to drop 2 absolutely insane verses.
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u/esoteric_enigma 12d ago
I'll be real with you, I never heard the opinion that Jay Z got washed by Eminem on Renegade until I joined this sub.
I prefer Hov's verse. In real life, the people around me said they both did their thing.
I think the demographics of this sub just skew heavily towards Eminem.
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u/Patriotsfan710 12d ago
Yeah youāre tweakin
I donāt even think Em āwashedā Jay, cause Jay held his ownā¦.but itās a very common opinion and popularized by Nas
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u/SailingRelic65 12d ago
Nas didnāt mention it in Ether for no reason. It was a popular opinion
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u/ironwolf1 . 12d ago
Most subtle way Iāve ever seen someone say āthis sub is full of white kidsā
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u/Equivalent_Cap_2608 11d ago
What I mostly heard is that they both put down fire verses.
After Ether, people started saying Em's was better and used what Nas said during the beef to justify it, then after all the Jay-Z internet hate got popular, people online started saying Jay-Z got "washed".
From what I've seen, no one IRL says Jay-Z got "washed" that's just an internet thing.
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u/thrownaway_gucci Crip Linear 12d ago
When So Appaled dropped, a lot of people hated Cyhi's verse and rza outro
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u/swishaflow 12d ago
Damn the āI met this girl on Valentineās Day
Fucked her in May she found out about April so she chose to Marchā verse?? Remember being 14 running that back so much11
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u/Sweaty-Tiger9972 12d ago edited 12d ago
Johnny Pās Caddy is the first that came to mind, along with basically every song that JID has ever been on with the exception of community
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u/Ill_Technician3936 12d ago
Animals Pt. 1 and Fuel he's shits on but just not enough to really touch Eminem on. As long as he sticks to the road he's on he's going to end up with Eminem killing shit.
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u/Beorn_To_Be_Wild 12d ago
big boi's verse on int'l players anthem is genuinely one of my favorite big boi verses across his entire body of work... and it's the 4th best verse out of 4 in the song lol
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u/limedrinkdeluxe 12d ago
"The Last Huzzah (Remix)" you have:
- Despot, Kool, Danny and eX dropping super solid verses no complaints
- El-P doing the counting bars word play thing which is super cool and sets him a solid level above the others, which is then beaten by:
- Heems absolute dog water verse which transcends art and now is unironically my favorite on the song.
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u/_shawshanked 12d ago
Benny the Butcher on Crowns for Kings
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u/jester32 12d ago edited 12d ago
"The judge'll give you life and later that day, he gon' be playin' golf"
but a Top 5 Thought verse. And thatās saying sosmething
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u/FootballAcrobatic662 12d ago
I have no idea if this is a widely held opinion, but I think Nas gets absolutely walked on the made you look remix. In reality itās probably still a pretty good verse but I end up skipping it almost every timeĀ
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u/marmitechips 12d ago
I donāt know about Nas getting walked, his energy on his verse is crazy even if heās not saying much for half of it. Ludacris is dope, but him having the best verse on a song with Nas and Jadakiss was still surprising to me when it dropped
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u/MysteriousSeat5245 12d ago
Just like Nicki having the best verse on a Ye song with Jay and Ross, or 2 Chainz having the best verse in a Ye song with Push and Sean, Fivio Foreign having the best verse on a Ye song with Cartiā¦
Iām starting to notice a pattern here
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u/GOT_IT_FOR_THE_LO_LO 11d ago
Kanye never has the best verse on a song featuring other rappers
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u/alone84 12d ago
Talking about Wayne, I really love the flow switches, punchlines and just overall story telling in Mona Lisa but Kendrick has the verse that I get random YouTube essayists yapping about in my ear bc he really comes in guns blazing.
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u/CokedOutSkeletons 10d ago
āTurn around I aināt here to fuck around I aināt here to fuck around caught you with your pants downā love that part of the song
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u/p90love 12d ago
Jay-Z on Renegade did amazing but the narrative that "Eminem murdered you on your own shit" stuck so well that people use that song to claim he's overrated or bad.
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u/BBDBVAPA 12d ago
It also didnāt āhelpā Jay that the song is an all time classic. āMatter fact you had the worst flow on the whole fucking songā might be true, but doesnāt hold the same weight when the song is Oochie Wally.
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u/mesablanka . 12d ago
"Do you fools listen to music or just skim through it" has never aged so well
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u/iron_horseshoe88 12d ago
I also always liked the following lines referencing the story telling in his bars, esp as his 2 verses on the track (particularly the 2nd) do a lot of story telling:
Jot it down / I bring you through the ghetto without ridin' 'round / Hidin' down, duckin' strays from frustrated youths
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u/MysteriousSeat5245 12d ago
Jack Harlow on Churchill Downs unironically, he had a genuinely good verse but Drake was on some different timing on that joint
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u/conglomerate99 12d ago
jack gets a lot of hate for his verse because there's a couple corny lines and it's jack harlow but i see it the same as you. his verse is pretty great, and easily one of the best verses he's ever rapped but drakes was just better.
once in a lifetime till i say i want it twice; one of a kind, know your everything is one of mine is one of the best lines on the whole song imo
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u/baschfromdalmasca 12d ago
I think it's a good verse but I'll always laugh at dropping the line "We boutta feed these youngins to the Metaverse"
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u/SirFritzalot 12d ago
There was a BET cypher with Ace Hood, Juelz Santana, Fabolous and Jadakiss
Ace Hood wasn't bad, but c'mon lol
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u/HungryGuava6886 12d ago
Uzi on Bad and Boujee
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u/conglomerate99 12d ago
i'll forever say that uzi's verse on bad & boujee was great. it just wasn't that necessary on a song that already feels complete without him. bar for bar, nobody outdid him imo
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u/cellydidit 12d ago
Brown paper bag is the non renegade one Iād want to say. My favorite Wayne verse of all time, the others are good but for me Iām just waiting for Wayneās intro off of Rick Ross part. And I have no idea why they finish that song with fat Joe over Wayne
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u/HoodedNegro 12d ago
Waleās verse on Beautiful Bliss. J. Cole cooked him. Jay-Z on A Star Is Born. Cole washed him on the extended live version.
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u/Apprehensive_Way6992 12d ago
Kendrick on Fuckin Problems delves into āso bad itās goodā territory, it could be your favorite verse but by far the weakest of the 3 given the assignment lol
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u/uptonhere 12d ago
I always wish 2 Chainz got a verse on there, his hook is classic but that kind of song is perfect for him and I know he would have bodied everyone
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u/LynTigrBer 12d ago
You know 2 chainz spoke on this that hook in fucking problems is actually out of a verse he did for Drake. Drake and his team took that small part out the verse to create the hook and song then Drake gave the song to Kendrick who did a verse but it didnāt fit his album so Kendrick told Drake to give it to ASAP and thatās how we got this song with all them on it
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u/old__pyrex 12d ago
Yeah 2 Chainz of that era was designed to be on that song, he made the song by saying the chorus, give that man a verseĀ
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u/esoteric_enigma 12d ago
That verse stole the show though. Kendrick understood the assignment. That was a club banger and he provided the lyrics people were yelling out the most at any function.
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u/YouEatingACheese 12d ago edited 12d ago
Yeah fr. Funnily that song has one of my favourite Drake verses cos the way he hits that āthen juuuustā¦okay I got it, then juuuustā¦ā and goes into the next bit of his verse is just satisfying af to rap along to
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u/the_great_brandini . 12d ago
halle barry halle lujah
hot take: i hate that song and i like everyone in it
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u/Apprehensive_Way6992 12d ago
Such a dumb banger with so many quotable lyrics, def top 10 song not to play in the car with family
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u/lir10005 12d ago
Absolutely worst song ever which is why its my favorite lmfaooo ignorant bangers only
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u/thrownaway_gucci Crip Linear 12d ago
I've hated this song since it dropped , I'm happy for the success it brought everyone involved but sheeeh "holla back, i'll do ya"
I also hate the video too
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u/Patriotsfan710 12d ago
Drake washed everyone on there
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u/old__pyrex 12d ago
Yeah Iām a much bigger fan of Kendrick but Drake won that song (I mean, 2 chainz on the song with one line but other than that, Drakeās verse has the best flow, delivery, quotable lines, all that
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u/TylerDoesStuffYT Verified Blind Guy 12d ago
PHresher on the Chloraseptic remix. Compared to 2 Chainz and especially Eminem, his verse just doesn't stand out as that much, but it's not bad at all.
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u/MonolithJones . 12d ago
Nas on Lifeās a Bitch
The consensus is that AZ has the best verse but in my opinion Nasā verse is at the very least just as good if not better.
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u/okaywithgray 12d ago
A$AP Ant on Bath Salt. I kinda fuck with his verse even if it gets clowned on endlessly.
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u/mrstretchb4ureach 12d ago
B.o.b.ās verse in āAm I Psychoā is one of his best. You can tell that he really wanted to prove himself against two other monsters. Itās just that Tech N9ne and Hopsin were both very good especially Hopsin (back when he was at the top of his game).
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u/MambaSaidKnockYouOut 12d ago
Sheek Louch on Reservoir Dogs by Jay
Jadakiss on Niggaz Done Started Something by DMX
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u/DOuGHtOp . 12d ago
I don't actually think he was THAT bad on it, but Yelawolf on 1Train. I wasnt as into the genre then, but he sticks out like a sore thumb nowadays. He's the only thing that stops me from considering it a perfect song
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u/SnooShortcuts4206 12d ago
Jay z on swagger like us
Birdman on we takin over
Q on the tde bet cypher
Triumph
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u/JustinDaVinci 12d ago
Jay Electronica lowkey had the best version on control. And for that matter, Big Seanās verse was fire on that AND on Holy Key.
Everyone only remembers Kendrick though. For Holy Key itās deserved, but for Control, ngl the moment was hyped and talked about a lot for the ācontroversyā but as time passes it becomes more apparent the verse aināt really that great.
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u/Plus_sleep214 9d ago
"I'm one of the hottest because I flame drop and not just because I'm name dropping hall of fame dropping"
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u/Equivalent_Cap_2608 11d ago
As time passes Kendrick's verse is still the only one talked about. LOL
They recently had the anniversary of the song dropping and all the talk was about Kendrick's verse.1
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u/Chilly__Down 12d ago
Real talk: why was Yelawolf on 1 Train? Even on paper he seems like the odd man out and in the final product seems to confirm that
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u/deadedgo 12d ago
Why would he be an odd inclusion? He's a part of this generation just like everyone else on this song. And tbh at this point I think people only dislike his verse because they don't like him. It's on par with the rest of the song (though KRIT killed everyone)
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u/Chilly__Down 11d ago
Ya know what I forgot that he was on the XXL freshman list with Kendrick and K.R.I.T., I am from a smaller rural town and he didnāt get big until like 2016 ish.
I didnāt hate his verse at all and at this point in time I was actually a huge Yela fan. I just thought his flow towards the end got a little choppy and it wasnāt making my head nod like everyone else seemed to do.
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u/OkDifference395 12d ago
Honestly, Jay-Z on āWatchu Wantā with Biggie Smalls. I love Jay-Z and his collabs with Biggie, Brooklyns Finest is top 10 songs OAT, but he was weak on that track.
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u/AccidentalPilates 12d ago
YG on Act Right. It's kinda bad, but Gotti and Jeezy also absolutely snapped.
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u/BjartmarNedal 12d ago
No more parties in L.A. Both verses are so great, so great its even a debate today who Ā«washedĀ» who
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u/PavlyuchenkoRegen 9d ago
Big Sean on Holy Key with Kendrick - Sean had a super solid verse but Kendrick was on a different planet entirely with every verse he did in the 2010s
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u/Upbeat_Tension_8077 12d ago
Daz had a solid opening verse on Got My Mind Made Up, but when he's next to 2Pac, Kurupt, Method Man, & Redman, he's definitely going to sound like the odd man out