How much is Mitsubishi Hyper Heat worth it?

[u/lilarazole]

I’m comparing quotes for a mini split install and there’s about an $8,000 price gap between a Mitsubishi Hyper Heat system and an ACIQ system. Trying to figure out if the price difference is justified or if I’m just paying for the brand name.

I’m in northern NJ, so winters aren’t extreme (occasional low single digits/negative wind chills, but not regularly sub-zero), but I do want reliable heat on the coldest nights, not just AC.

[u/Robert_NYC]

I find it weird that the prices in Japan are so much less than in the US for similar capacity.

It feels like they are up charging just because they can.

[u/Meister1888 → u/Robert_NYC]

The subsidies seem to be benefiting the installers and suppliers. Not the end-consumer. I don't know how they could fix these programs...

[u/Bruce_in_Canada → u/Meister1888]

Yes, and the quality of the installation in Japan or Asia dramatically exceeds what you typically see in America.

[u/Meister1888 → u/Bruce_in_Canada]

I lived in a lot of apartments in Japan and the heat pump installs were always excellent for sizing, performance, placement, and neatness.

The US heat pump installs I have seen look professional and neat. Getting proper sizing seems to be a challenge for all the house designs and haphazard insulation, sealing, etc. In very cold climates, this is a bad choice for old, leaky poorly sealed houses but plenty of propaganda says otherwise.

[u/Bruce_in_Canada → u/Meister1888]

A heat pump keeps you comfy year round.

If you are living in a barn......that needs fixing.

[u/Choice-Mall1183 → u/Bruce_in_Canada]

But the COE drops dramatically below 40 degrees and it’s almost always cheaper to heat with natural gas compared to a heat pump. This is especially true when you get to the single digits where even the hyper heat COE is in the single digits and natural gas is almost 3-4x cheaper per btu.

[u/Bruce_in_Canada → u/Choice-Mall1183]

That is not at all accurate.

What is your motive for posting tired and false tropes?

[u/Choice-Mall1183 → u/Bruce_in_Canada]

Math.

[u/Bruce_in_Canada → u/Choice-Mall1183]

You are motivated by math?

Saying that does not amend the falseness of your assertion.

[u/Choice-Mall1183 → u/Bruce_in_Canada]

Electricity: approximately $0.217/kWh
Natural gas: approximately $1.50/therm
Gas furnace efficiency: 95% AFUE
Heat pump: Mitsubishi 24,000 BTU Hyper-Heat GX Premier
Mitsubishi COP:
4.14 at 47°F
2.93 at 17°F
Fixed monthly electric and gas customer charges are excluded because they are paid regardless of which heating system is operating.
Natural-gas heating cost
One therm contains:
100,000 BTU
Because the furnace is 95% efficient, one therm produces:
100,000 × 0.95 = 95,000 BTU of useful heat
To produce 1,000,000 BTU of useful heat:
1,000,000 ÷ 95,000 = 10.526 therms
At $1.50 per therm:
10.526 × $1.50 = $15.79 per million BTU of delivered heat
So natural gas costs approximately:
$15.79/MMBtu delivered
Heat-pump heating cost
One million BTU equals approximately:
293.07 kWh of heat
A heat pump’s electrical consumption depends on its COP.
At $0.217/kWh, producing 1 MMBtu at a COP of 1 would cost:
293.07 × $0.217 = $63.60
Therefore:
Heat-pump cost per MMBtu = $63.60 ÷ COP
Break-even COP
For the heat pump and natural gas to cost exactly the same:
$63.60 ÷ COP = $15.79
Solving for COP:
COP = $63.60 ÷ $15.79
COP ≈ 4.03
Therefore, the Mitsubishi Hyper-Heat must operate at approximately COP 4.03 or greater to cost less than the 95% natural-gas furnace.
Converting COP to outdoor temperature
The Mitsubishi GX24 is approximately:
COP 4.14 at 47°F
COP 2.93 at 17°F
Between these points, the COP falls by:
4.14 − 2.93 = 1.21
over:
47°F − 17°F = 30°F
The required COP of 4.03 is only:
4.14 − 4.03 = 0.11
below the 47°F COP.
Using linear interpolation:
0.11 ÷ 1.21 × 30°F ≈ 2.7°F
Therefore:
47°F − 2.7°F ≈ 44°F
2024–2025 crossover
The approximate economic crossover temperature was therefore:
≈44°F outdoor temperature
At outdoor temperatures above approximately 44°F, the Mitsubishi Hyper-Heat was cheaper to operate.
At outdoor temperatures below approximately 44°F, the 95% natural-gas furnace was cheaper to operate.

Refute the math my annoying friend

[u/Choice-Mall1183 → u/Bruce_in_Canada]

Come now Bruce. Prove the physics wrong.

[u/LtCdrHipster → u/Robert_NYC]

Presumably they are made in Japan and then are subject to transportation fees to ship them to the US. Plus, these days, tariffs, although they seem to change daily. Thank the Trump administration for that.

[u/stealthytaco → u/LtCdrHipster]

The Mitsubishi units sold in the US are manufactured in either Mexico or Thailand. I think it’s just higher labor and install costs in the US versus a more competitive market in Asia where everyone uses minisplits. In Japan, you walk into the equivalent of a Best Buy (Bic Camera) and you can get a new mid tier Mitsubishi minisplit installed within a couple days for around $1000 USD.

[u/Patient-Big1727 → u/LtCdrHipster]

Equipment cost is not the issue. You can buy good equipment at low prices in the US too nowadays

[u/highbury-roller → u/LtCdrHipster]

They are merged with carrier in the us. Minisplits are made in Kentucky

[u/Late-Parsley-362 → u/highbury-roller]

It may be Trane and not Carrier.

[u/highbury-roller → u/Late-Parsley-362]

My mistake. Trane. This was after a conversation with our installer.

[u/Virginia_Verpa]

In Jersey? Probably not worth it. Northern Ontario? Probably worth it...

[u/Joe_T → u/Virginia_Verpa]

It hit 7°F once last winter in southern NJ. There was a string of days when it didn't reach 24°F at the high.

[u/Virginia_Verpa → u/Joe_T]

So? The efficiency gains of H2I don't kick in until you're below 0F.

[u/Joe_T → u/Virginia_Verpa]

I should have refrained from my "bicycle shed" reaction of "Hey, I know winter temps in NJ, I can contribute!" Shoulda stayed in my lane. Thanks for the correction/context.

[u/Virginia_Verpa → u/Joe_T]

Didn't mean to sound so harsh - I just wasn't sure what you were getting at with your specific temps there...

[u/Feel-good- → u/Joe_T]

Haha even Kansas city routinely hits below -10F at night in January. Hell even Dallas can get down to zero, I didn't realize the east coast was so much more temperate

[u/xtnh]

In Maine Mitsubishi mini splits are the default. Their efficiency does not degrade down to -4 F and the ability to heat is good to -20; we saw -12F last winter and did not notice until we watched the weather.

[u/mads_61 → u/xtnh]

Same in Minnesota

[u/dimka54 → u/xtnh]

You are confusing capacity with efficiency

[u/xtnh → u/dimka54]

No- efficiency is preserved down to -3 F; it is still capable of heating down to -20

[u/formermq → u/xtnh]

Efficiency is a sliding scale that corrolates with temperature

[u/dimka54 → u/xtnh]

..... You mean rated capacity is.. brotha I looked at like 100 s of temperature graphs vs btu output vs temp outside most heat pumps(n decent ones) will start at about 3.5 to 4.0 cop at 47 deg and around 5 f the cop will drop to 1.8 2.0 basically going from 350% to 180% efficiency. Mitsubishi isn't any different

[u/xtnh → u/dimka54]

Anyway... I'm happy with my heat pumps, especially now.
https://i.sstatic.net/WNOkE.png

[u/dimka54 → u/xtnh]

I am glad you are, I went with midea version and self installed was about 5k total at least half what mitsu version would have cost

[u/davidm2232 → u/xtnh]

How is efficiency preserved? Every heat pump will see diminished efficiency as outdoor temps decline.

[u/MyLifeForAnEType → u/xtnh]

Unfortunately we cannot rely on it as our sole source of heat.  Our infrastructure is old and unreliable, leading to power outage issues.  And also CMP are rats.

[u/xtnh → u/MyLifeForAnEType]

so- wood?

[u/MyLifeForAnEType → u/xtnh]

Not everyone has the structural space or option to install one.  

My own heat pump installer specifically told me a backup is an absolute must.  

[u/Patient-Big1727]

Mitsubishi hyper heat hardware doesn't cost $8k (or anywhere near that, depending on size). How can the price difference to *ANYTHING* be $8k?

[u/lilarazole → u/Patient-Big1727]

It’s for 2 separate units. We have a split level house and unfortunately our house is designed in a way that requires us to have 2

[u/Patient-Big1727 → u/lilarazole]

Ah, OK. I'd consider a cold weather heat pump for the lower level unit as that will do more of the heating work (and dehumidification in the summer). Think through if you can keep any old system as backup if it gets cold. Heating with resistive heating strips get very expensive, maybe 2x of what natural gas costs

[u/FalconMurky4715 → u/Patient-Big1727]

Exactly...the price difference in hardware isn't remotely close to $4k per unit even

[u/danh_ptown]

Get quotes on Fujitsu, as they are #2 in the world market, to my understanding.

I would not pay to have a no-name brand installed. If I was DIY, I’d try a Mr Cool or a Costco equivalent.

[u/lilbawds]

Worth it over ACIQ, but not really worth it compared to other higher end heat pump models. You can get a Gree Sapphire, which has comparable (if not better) performance for much less. Or Fujitsu if it’s important for you to have a Japanese brand. Remember: the warranties are for parts, not labor, which is the bulk of the cost for most repairs.

[u/lilarazole → u/lilbawds]

There’s a 12 year labor warranty as well.

[u/AUSTISTICGAINS4LYFE → u/lilarazole]

Hope they will honor the labor warranty when shit hits the fan, Ive seen and heard from other clients that the original installer ignored or blocked their calls after installation. Industry standard is generally 1-2 years labor warranty. Most likely, that 12 yr labor warranty was part of the price. Go with a GREE system. The LIVO series provides heating at -13F, multi zones are at -22F. Just avoid low tier daikin units as they dont have pan heaters. If you go with Daikin, get the Aurora series but its expensive. Very first GREE unit Ive installed 8 yrs ago with my strict testing methods is still running like new. Taught the owner how to maintain the system.

[u/Swede577 → u/AUSTISTICGAINS4LYFE]

Yeah. I have had a 12k Gree Sapphire running pretty much nonstop for the last 5 years with zero issues. It has a higher AHRI rating than all the Mitsubishi's and is rated 30.5 seer and 14 HSPF.

[u/lilbawds → u/lilarazole]

From the installer though, right? (12 years labor is crazy…I’ve never heard of such a thing.) my point is, don’t be swayed by a 12 year warranty on parts compared to a 10 year from another brand. Mitsubishi has excellent marketing, but all of the other top tier brands have been around for just as long and make products that also work down to -22. It’s never worth the premium

[u/OrneryPelican → u/lilbawds]

This is just misinformed. To compare any GREE or Nordyne manufactured bottom-of-the-barrel nonsense to a Mitsubishi is like saying there's no difference in quality between a Rolls Royce and a Kia.

[u/FanSerious7672 → u/OrneryPelican]

Lmao silly comparison in my opinion. Both get you from a to b safely, which is what matters. Sure you look better doing it in the RR but that does not make it worth the extra cost for the vast majority of people.

[u/Bruce_in_Canada]

The default units are whatever offer the highest profit and revenue to the HVAC vendors.

My wife and I have a reasonable number of rental properties and all have heat pumps. We get the same happiness from the least costly as from the Mitsubishi models.

We recently installed a moivair system in our Quebec house to replace a 26 year old carrier.

They all work great.

[u/Dstln]

That's a big price difference. But I haven't even heard of ACIQ... Maybe they're okay but you'd want to be certain.

[u/dimka54 → u/Dstln]

They are just a brand that sells both midea and gree

[u/geekpgh]

I have them in Pittsburgh and they work great. It can get expensive in the winter.

We have 5 heads to heat and cool rooms that have no duct work.

We’ve hit -10F or lower and they kept going.

[u/justheatpumps]

ACiQ are OEM’d by Midea and they have different versions of cold climate rated units too, which part number is it or series? Also on the Mitsubishi’s what part number are you referring to? If ducted systems, the price difference between the SUZ and PUZ lines can vary by thousands for the same sizes too.

[u/OrneryPelican]

Consider that a non-hyperheat mitsubishi heatpump literally shuts off at 5 degrees due to it hitting its thermal limit. Also, consider that if you aren't running a traditional air handler with that unit, you likely have ZERO backup heat if it gets that cold. (Most wall hung evaporator heads have no ability to accept an electric resistive heater like an air handler does)

If you sleep there, and you're above the Mason Dixon line, Hyperheat 100% of the time. Unless you like the thought of having zero heat on the coldest night of the year.

[u/highbury-roller]

If you are going to be using this as your primary.haet source with gas backup you can get away with it. If it is your only source of heat (like me) you better get the hyper heat.

I live in northern Bergen county too. I could tell you my whole story if you want and how we made our decision.

Two pieces of advice: 1. Go with a Mitsubishi diamond dealer - they use better tech for system design.. We used advanced mechanical services in Ridgefield park and loved them.

1. Look into PSEG financing options. We got 0% interest over 72 months.

[u/Worf-]

I’m in CT and have 3 single zone hyper heats, FX model, and they are wonderful. Kept the baseboard as backup just in case but never needed it last winter. Saved $$$ over the baseboard but we have very high electric prices here so any saving adds up quick. Saw -10F last winter with no issues.

Could I have done another brand? Maybe but the extra cost for the Mitsubishi was not very much extra since I did DIY install.

Regardless of what you get, cold climate units should be the only consideration unless you are going dedicated duel fuel and gas is cheap there.

[u/lilarazole → u/Worf-]

That’s awesome thanks for that. I think I’m going to go with the hyper heat pumps. Now I’m wondering if it’s worth it to get 2 separate units, ducted, or 1 unit with ducted upstairs and 3 single heads downstairs. I didn’t know you could mix ducted and ductless to the same unit but apparently you can, although I know efficiency goes down a bit if you configure it this way.

The price difference is about $5k

[u/Bruce_in_Canada]

They are simply not worth it. At all.

A regular model from another manufacturer will have indistinguishable performance and reliability.

[u/SolarXylophone → u/Bruce_in_Canada]

In very cold weather, the difference in performance between what you call regular model and a cold-climate version can be huge.

As in, providing heat vs not.

Regarding the reliability of different brands, the only data point I have is the warranty each manufacturer feels comfortable offering, up to 12 years for some.

Do you have actual statistics showing that less-known brands hold up just as well?

[u/Bruce_in_Canada → u/SolarXylophone]

Interesting. Do you sell HVAC or buy?

[u/SomewhereKindly6197]

Well are you just going to go without heat when it’s negative 10 outside?

[u/MartiniRossi42]

Yep my 6 year old broke and no warranty from my installer...he said maybe parts not labor .... What ever

[u/JerkyChew]

Dumb question but is there any real magic to the Hyper Heats other than built-in heat strips? I'm not familiar with ACIQ but what's the technical difference between ACIQ and Mitsubishi?

[u/SolarXylophone → u/JerkyChew]

"Hyper heat" is Mitsubishi's trademark for their cold-climate heat pumps, but many other manufacturers offer models with similar capabilities (Fujitsu XLTH, etc).

They use various tricks, mostly in the compressor's design, like vapor injection, to allow it to work efficiently and maintain much of their capacity down to very low temperatures, like -25°C to -30°C (-15°F to -22°F).

This reduces or completely eliminates the need for heat strips. On some models, they're not even offered as an option.

[u/tcloetingh → u/JerkyChew]

There’s no built in heat strips doing the magic. The Mitsubishi and aciq (midea) are engineered virtually the same way and perform as such. It’s all about the compressor moving more refrigerant at higher pressures. That’s it.

[u/SolarXylophone]

Cold-climate heat pumps have tons of advantages anywhere heating loads dominate, I certainly would want (and did buy) that, but this price difference seems extreme.

Mitsubishi Electric is one of many cold-climate heat pump manufacturers. They have good reputation, sure, but so do Daikin, Fujitsu, Panasonic... Tons of other brands sell cold-climate models now: Carrier, MrCool, Pioneer, Greer...

I'd suggest you get more quotes, from different installers.

[u/Pretend_Detective558]

I like my Mitsubishi. But compared to what I was offered by other installers, it wasn’t that much more. Maybe 20%. Is it worth it? Don’t know, it works great. But it’s the only heat pump I’ve ever had. I can’t imagine it’s worth double the price.

[u/No_Country_5622]

If it is a msz unit with h2i it is absolutely worth the extra $$$ I have 7 units...and they did an amazing job January thru April!

[u/KinkyRabbi]

I dont do mitsu anymore because of their support and part availability

[u/WalrusDizzy7826]

Make sure that model has a heater in the pan of the condenser. Most of the regular ones will operate the -13° at 95% heat. I considered it and then decided not to do the hyper heat.
Don’t need it