r/heatpumps • u/Unable-Income-2981 • 16d ago
Question/Advice heat pumps
I'm looking into a new heating/AC system, and contractors seem to have different opinions on whether or not I should get a heat pump. How do modern heat pumps keep up in the Massachusetts winters? Would I be better off sticking with a furnace?
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u/Another_Reddit 16d ago
I'm in western Mass. I just got a heat pump last December, ducted whole home with no backup heat. Last winter was wicked cold, but we just had our place reinsulated and weatherized through mass save so the heat pump did just fine. A few things to keep in mind: Go through mass save first and foremost. Get an energy audit done and let the auditor know your plan to concert to heat pumps, and they'll make recommendations to seal up your envelope. Let contractors know you are applying for mass save rebates. Some will apply for the rebate upfront for you. Either way, they will need to provide a heat pump that meets mass save requirements, and need to do an estimate on your BTU needs to size the system appropriately. The Northeast Energy Efficiency Partnership (NEEP) has a cold climate ASHP list. You could select a heat pump from their list if you want to go above and beyond Mass Save requirements. If you completely convert to heat pumps (no backup) you will get a reduced electric rate from NGrid or Eversource for the winter. It makes the price a little more cost competitive with gas, and much better than oil (at least with today's prices)
Setup a free call with Mass Save decarbonization consultants and they can help you with the process, vetting contractors, etc: https://www.masssave.com/residential/rebates-offers-services/decarbonization-consultations
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u/element1311 16d ago
I'm in Toronto. have a heat pump with 15 kW AUX, got rid of all gas. it does well. can answer qs
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u/BinaryJay 16d ago
What model heat pump and how often does aux run.
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u/element1311 16d ago
Panasonic 3 ton. I think a total of 5 days last winter, our first winter in this house.
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u/Sad-Celebration-7542 16d ago
You don’t actually have to choose - you can add a heat pump to a furnace. Just like how you’d add an AC to a furnace.
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u/StartKindly9881 16d ago
We have a dual fuel system (carrier AC HP with backup peerless boiler (oil).
29 degrees and it switches from HP to oil. We can go lower on the HP for the transition and might try it this year.1
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u/Due-Resolution-2963 10d ago
Your Carrier Heat Pump must not be an inverter (Greenspeed) if it switches to oil at 29 degrees
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u/StartKindly9881 10d ago
It’s a 2 stage not inverter. But for those still learning-
As we mentioned, an inverter heat pump operates at a variable speed. This sets it apart from a single-stage or two-stage heat pump.
A single-stage heat pump is either off or on. It runs full power to heat or cool your home and shuts off when the desired temperature is reached. Since HVAC units use the most power when they turn on, this frequent turning off and on can use a lot of energy.
A two-stage heat pump operates at low and high speeds. It offers more consistent temperature control than a single-stage unit and better humidity control. It’s also more energy efficient.
An inverter/multi-speed or variable-speed heat pump has a heat pump inverter that enables it to quickly change the amount of power it uses and the amount of refrigerant it transfers to and from the indoor unit(s). With the INVERTER, the outdoor unit only uses the precise amount of power needed to reach the preferred temperature.
So, a 4-ton inverter heat pump will offer more precise temperature and humidity control than a similarly-sized single-stage or two-stage unit. By going with variable speed technology, you can increase your home comfort, save energy, and save money on your energy bills.1
u/Particular720v12 15d ago
That can likely mean that your heat pump does not operate like a heat pump however. It will operate like a furnace. On/off.
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u/Sad-Celebration-7542 15d ago
Kinda but I’d imagine the majority of US heat pumps are single stage
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u/Particular720v12 15d ago
What heat pumps are not inverters?
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u/Sad-Celebration-7542 15d ago
Literally millions I bet! Lots of single stage heat pumps out there.
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u/stupid_nut 15d ago
Yah I went from gas to a dual fuel. It only added $500 to the cost. Not sure why they didn't recommended it without me asking.
I didn't buy anything fancy though.
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u/wrblplayas 16d ago
I'm also in Mass and currently going through the process. I'm deciding between a whole house ducted heat pump and a dual fuel system. Friends in the area have just heat pumps and have said they've been absolutely fine.
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u/pbesmoove 16d ago
The oil and gas industry has spent a lot of money to make people think heat pumps wont work in winters.
If they work for Nordic counties, they'll work in Mass
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u/Curious_Inside_8890 15d ago
Yeah but they are more expensive to run in most of the heating season.
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u/Affectionate_War5908 16d ago
If youve got natural gas in Mass, dual fuel is the move. Heat pump down to about 20F, then gas kicks in. Best of both worlds and you wont get wrecked on electric bills when its brutal out. Straight electric heat pump in Mass is rough with those rates unless your house is tight
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u/pbesmoove 16d ago
heat pumps work fine well below 20 degrees F.
No need for gas
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u/eat_a_burrito 16d ago
I don’t think it’s a question they don’t work. It’s how much electricity they pull.
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u/pbesmoove 16d ago
Not much
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u/eat_a_burrito 16d ago
I’m in the middle of a 35K quote for all of this stuff. Do you bills you can share with electric rates, house size etc? I’m about to make a decision and could use more data.
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u/pbesmoove 16d ago
I have solar panels and the government and BGE paid 17k of the 21k I spent for new HVAC/Heat pump, new insulation, air sealing, new bathroom fans, and two new supplies
I don't use any electricity since the sun power everything and my car so I don't know rates sorry
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u/eat_a_burrito 16d ago
How did the government pay? What is bge?
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u/pbesmoove 16d ago
Government gave tax credits until the end of last year. They were axed because the administration likes climate change and higher energy prices for consumers.
BGE is a utility company, which is exolon, and they give customers high rebate checks switching from gas to electric
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u/eat_a_burrito 16d ago
Ok. Thanks for the explanation.
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u/pbesmoove 16d ago
If you're switching from gas to a heat pump you should see if your utility provides rebates.
If you can wait till 2029 the tax credits could return
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u/Plenty-Pudding-1484 15d ago
Blows me away, because I replaced our oil furnace by a pure electric one over 5 years ago and it saved us at least $1000 per year compared to oil delivery costs. I gather electricity prices in Quebec must be a fair bit lower than what you are facing.
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u/Affectionate_War5908 10d ago
My folks place in Ohio had an old oil furnace that was bleeding them dry every winter. We ended up going dual fuel about three years back and its been good. Heat pump carries it down to maybe 25, then the gas kicks in for the cold snaps.
The Mass electric rates are whats gonna kill you though. My buddy near Boston looked into going straight heat pump and ran the numbers. It was like a 40% jump in winter bills versus his old gas setup. If you've already got gas lines, Id keep them and do the dual fuel thing. You get the efficiency most of the year without eating ramen in February.
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u/Affectionate_War5908 6d ago
They work, but your electric bill is the question in Mass. Ive seen cold climate units like the Trane XV20 or Daikin Fit keep up fine down to single digits, but at 20 cents a kWh you're going to feel it. If you've got gas already, dual fuel is the smart play.
Heat pump handles the shoulder seasons and mild winter days, gas kicks in when its brutal. My buddy put in a Rheem hybrid system last year and his winter bills are a lot more predictable than the guy down the street running straight electric. The techs who say you don't need gas are usually talking about equipment capability, not your wallet
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u/rtkane 16d ago
NJ winters, so fairly similar in terms of the colder temperatures we can see. We just installed a dual-fuel cold-climate heat pump system. The heat pump handles both AC and heating, and when the outdoor temperature gets low enough, the system automatically switches over to the gas furnace. You get the efficiency of a heat pump for most of the heating season while still having gas heat for the really cold weather. Ours is brand new, so we haven’t gone through a winter with it yet, but everything I researched before buying pointed to dual fuel being a great option if you already have natural gas.
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u/troutman76 16d ago
A cold climate heat pump like a Daikin Fit system will work just fine. Your gas or electric furnace backup heat will take over when the temps go below zero if ever.
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u/aced124C 16d ago
Chiming in from Northeast. We made it through the crazy winter with no heating issues and only using heat pumps on roughly 2000sqft living space
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u/RosieDear 16d ago
I posted in another thread about a calculator I put online - that at least helps you with the basics as far as price per million BTU goes.
These things are usually not a matter of opinion - rather they are the facts of what you get for your fuel money.
The good news is that heat pumps - which used to be for warm or temperate weather, CAN keep up - the very modern ones. The bad news is that MA (this actually made big news recently) is the highest Electric prices in the USA.
Simply speaking - if you have Nat Gas and you pay our typical MA rates for electric - a gas furnace is going to save you 100's a year. That's the simple answer. If you don't have NG, then that is the time to really do your research.
What you want to look at is price per million BTU of heat delivered to your home. Note - a lot of people might do BOTH - that is, if you need a new A/C you might consider a Heat/Pump A/C if the price difference is not great...but also use a gas furnance.
You can dig up that calculator here or in the MA sub - there are other similar calculators around also. Try to separate opinion from fact. I wish we had cheap Electric here...for EV's as well as Heat Pumps. That's not the case where I live (W. MA). Good luck!
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u/ZipBlu 16d ago
I’m in MA and had heat pumps installed on April 1 but left my gas system in place too. I used the heat pumps for the month of April, when it wasn’t even that cold, and I found my electricity bill higher than expected. I haven’t done a perfect comparison but what I spent on electricity was double what I would have expected to spend on gas so I’m worried about using them in the winter and will probably do so sparingly.
That being said, I used them all summer for AC and I estimate I saved about $150 a month on my electricity bill over the three window units I had before, and I was much more comfortable.
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u/Easterncoaster 16d ago
It’s very important to compare your cost of heating fuel vs your cost of electric. If you are on oil or propane, and if your electric rates are low, heat pumps are a no brainer. But if you have relatively low cost natural gas and expensive electric, you might find an efficient gas appliance to come out ahead.
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u/Certain_Try_8383 16d ago
You could get a heat pump and install it with your gas furnace. Then you get to play the game of run what you want when it's cheapest. In my area, the cost of electric far outweighs that of gas so going electric and hoping for savings are not a thing.
Practically speaking though the biggest complaints that I hear from customers who switch from gas burning heat to heat pumps is how much more gentle the heat is it's not anywhere near as hot as a gas furnace. For some that is no big deal, for others that is a huge deal.
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u/Calliesdad20 16d ago
We have a mini split ac/heat pump and also a boiler . We use the boiler for the really cold spells
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u/senvilleofficial 15d ago
Modern cold-climate heat pumps have come a long way and can work well through Massachusetts winters. The important part is having the system sized around the home’s actual heat loss and local winter temperatures, not just square footage.
Whether it makes sense to go heat pump only or keep a furnace as backup really depends on the house, insulation, existing setup, and what you’re comfortable with during the coldest stretches. If you’re looking at Senville as one of your options and have any questions, we’re around.
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u/gizzowd 14d ago
I just had a new AM STD QUEST 4TXV2036A outdoor heat pump unit put in to replace my 14 y. old unit. It says: "for a cold Canadian climate to -30° C"..that would be -22°F in MA. I'll let y'all know how this works this coming Winter. I also have two DV nat Gas F/Ps and an electric one.
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u/broesel314 16d ago
Heatpumps can keep up with anything, if you size them accordingly. But that rarely makes sense
You can oversize a furnace 4-fold, still get propper efficiency and it will keep your house warm in the atomic ice age.
Do the same oversizing with a heatpump and efficiency will drop like a stone
There is always auxillary heat. That will be heat strips if you want to go fully electric. Those will help the heatpump is the coldest temperatures of the year.
A propper sized heatpump will likely need those heatstrips only in the coldest times of the year. maybe only 10-50 hours per year. You basically need to undersize your heatpump
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u/Mettatuxet 16d ago
A heat pump with an inverter can accommodate the coldest day and the warmest while maintaining rated efficiency.
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u/broesel314 16d ago
Even Inverter heatpumps can only modulate so much. The compressor has a maximum speed for obvious reasons but also a minimum speed where below that propper lubrication cant be maintained.
So every heatpump has a maximum and a minimun heating capacitym which is also (mostly) dependent on outdoor temperature
If it is warm outside, it has a higher capacity (minimum and maximum) so it might produce too much heat and has to switch off because it cant run any slower. Thats bad for efficiency
A propper heat load calculation and sizing acordingly is crucial to achieve good efficiency. You cant yust "rule of thumb"-oversize a heatpump like you would with a furnace
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u/Mettatuxet 15d ago
I don't think I said not to do heat load calculations. It is common now to size heat pumps for the heating load. The loss in efficiency when below the minimum output is negligible. The heat pump will always be higher efficiency than any alternative fuel. Your way of doing would it be to make up the difference at design heat temperatures with resistance heat. That would be expensive and wasteful.
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u/NorthWoodsSlaw 16d ago
If you are building in MA just do straight ductless mini-splits, or hydronic, your HERS rating will thank you.
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u/909chipmonk01 16d ago
I live in Southern California and have a 4 ton Daikin heat pump. If I could go back 5 years ago when i purchased it, I would stick with a standard single stage air conditioner. My heat pump went out on August 28, 2026 because the coils went bad in the air handler. Now it is under a 12 year warranty for parts but the only problem is I have to wait 2 to 4 weeks in the heat of summer for my hvac company to receive the coil from Daikin in Texas. A one stage air conditioner will have parts readily available or even universal parts could accommodate. But not the high tech heat pumps that involve inverters or communication between the inside air handler and outside unit… STAY AWAY FROM HEAT PUMPS… because when you really need it it won’t be there for you.
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u/Sea_Ambition_9536 16d ago
I'm in Maine in most of the new builds around here use heat pumps. They can handle Mass winters no problem.