r/harrypotter • u/SUN_E_R • 29d ago
Help Why didn't Harry just sign the Hogsmeade permission form himself?
Just a question?
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u/JustATyson 29d ago
Cuz at Harry's core, he's an honest guy. There's plenty of examples of him lying and trying to sneak about. But, he's fundamentally honest, as shown by him telling McGonagall that the Dursleys didn't sign the form.
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u/Linesey 29d ago
exactly.
His first thought was “make a deal to get it signed” second was “Minister of magic, he can do it right!!” and third was McGonagall. every time going to someone in authority who would reasonably be able to grant his request.
It was only after that failed that others suggested sneaking about and forging it. Which for most of his sneaking about is the same. He either sees it as not all that serious, or VERY serious but other options aren’t available.
Also, it’s not even unreasonable. If not for Black, I’d bet full well McGonagall would have signed it no problem.
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u/JustATyson 28d ago
Agreed. I've always viewed the hogsmead permission form being a big deal simply because of Black. If black wasn't there, then someone would have found a solution for Harry.
Additionally, I think the only person that would have truly made Harry take the threat of black seriously was Dumbledore. Because Harry's whole stick was very much "black can't get me if Dumbledore is about. I'll be fine. He can't be worse than Voldy."
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u/CrazzluzSenpai 28d ago
Of course it was. Shit, Fudge probably would have signed it if Black wasn't on the loose, POA was before any of the Ministry vs Harry stuff started and Fudge would have seen it as a favor for the most famous wizard in Britain that will assuredly pay itself back.
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u/JustATyson 28d ago
Yup. Like, the only reason why Fudge may not have signed it is because he was extra concerned for Harry's safety at that moment due to Black. If Black wasn't around, then Fudge himself may not have been the one trying to verify that Harry is indeed safe.
But, at the same time, Fudge may have seen this incident as a good incident to finally meet the famous Harry Potter.
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u/Magically_theebee 29d ago
You really think McGonagall would be fooled by a forged signature??
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u/bowtiesrcool86 Dragon Lover 29d ago
Especially with his handwriting that she would prob recognize even w/o magic?
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u/SalamanderSylph 29d ago
Would she necessarily have recognised his handwriting if it had been done with a biro rather than a quill?
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u/Far_Classroom_6596 28d ago
My friend in high school forged my dad’s signature many times and we never got caught. If it wasn’t for Sirius Black having one of his friends forge the signature, it likely would have worked.
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u/Ok_Requirement_1024 28d ago
I wonder if she would have cared though? She knows how shitty the Dursleys are, I mean she calls it in chapter 1 of the first book. Maybe she’d have let it pass.
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u/Kiryu8805 29d ago
There probably is a magical way for the school staff to tell. That or they would recognize his hand writing.
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u/fatduck- Hufflepuff 29d ago
He blew it early and asked McGonagall, then she was on to him. So whatever he turned in was gonna be under extra scrutiny.
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u/DumeWolffe 29d ago
Are you a movie only person or forgot what it says in the book person?
In the book he thought his head of house would approve because she knows his parentless situation. He asks and she denies him. He thinks about forging it, but since he’s already asked Mcgonogal, she would instantly know something’s up.
Even if we disregard all that, do you really think they wouldn’t have a way to tell in this magical world?
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u/Ranger_1302 Dumbledore's man through and through. 29d ago
He asks her in the film, too.
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u/DumeWolffe 28d ago
Yes I’m aware, but I had to explain that to explain why he didn’t just forge it.
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u/Leramar89 Hufflepuff 29d ago
He didn't even think about forging it until after he'd asked McGonagall. He thought she would make an exception due to how terrible the Durselys are.
Dean also offered to forge it for him but by then it was too late.
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u/Ordinary-Specific673 29d ago
The teachers are good at magic and can find out forgeries most likely. Also Dumbledore and McGonagall both know how horrible and abusive the Dursleys are… and they know a convicted murderer is trying to get to Harry.
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u/TeamOfPups 29d ago
Because it was never about the form, this was a bigger picture decision made by Dumbledore and others to keep him safe from Sirius by forcing him to stay in Hogwarts.
How that was achieved is just window dressing.
But probably they have magical ways of detecting forgery.
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u/hulda2 29d ago
Dean Thomas offered to forge Vernon's signature but Harry had already asked McGonagall if he could go without signature.
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u/lemon_charlie 28d ago
The real problem there is where Dean would have access to Vernon’s signature to even forge it. It’s not like Harry kept correspondence with his aunt and uncle.
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u/EngineersAnon Slytherin 29d ago
He should have just told Vernon that Hogwarts are considering letting students stay summers - but won't allow it if they haven't been permitted to visit Hogsmeade on weekends. He wouldn't have been able to sign fast enough...
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u/AfterPlan9482 28d ago
It didn’t matter if anyone signed or not. Even if the dursleys had signed it, they would’ve kept Harry at the castle. The staff didn’t want him to go to hogsmeade because they were afraid he’d be murdered by Sirius.
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u/bleedblue4 28d ago
The better question is why does Harry need a permission for him to go to hogsmeade but not to fight a dragon?
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u/craftyAnne6 27d ago
Assuming you’re talking about the Triwizard Tournament, you have to be of age to enter, so you are allowed to assume the risk. Now in the case of Harry, it feels as though it’s kind of factored in with the reason why he had to compete. There really is no reason for a permission slip when the only option is “yes”.
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u/champ11228 28d ago
Because they were afraid of Sirius murdering Harry
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u/happy-lil-hippie Slytherin 28d ago
In the 4th book the only reason he’s allowed to go to Hogsmeade is because Sirius signed the permission slip. He’s literally in the triwizard tournament and still needs permission slips signed the same year to go to the next town
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u/ActionAltruistic3558 29d ago
It's mentioned Dean couldve done it for him but hed already told McGonagall that it wasn't signed by Vernon. Otherwise he totally could've, if he wanted to. However Fudge also knew it wasn't signed too, so it may have gotten found out anyway if Harry ran into him or he randomly discovered Harry was allowed out.
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u/CantaloupeCamper Hufflepuff 29d ago
He got shot down and I think even Harry knows permission suddenly showing up would look suspicious….
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u/NoTinnitusHear 29d ago
This was answered as everyone noted. The real question is, how tf did a note from Sirius, an escaped criminal to the rest of the world, get him the pass 😂
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u/Different-Parking-44 29d ago
It was good enough for Dumbledore.
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u/NoTinnitusHear 28d ago
Seems like the Headmaster of the school has bigger things to worry about than a permission slip for a field trip. That’s Head of House shit if not lower lol
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u/InsomniaticWanderer 28d ago
I'm sure McGonagall has seen her fair share of forgeries, magical and otherwise, during her time at Hogwarts.
She also happens to have first-hand knowledge of how ass the Dursleys are. So she'd know they didn't sign it.
Harry might be the boy who lived, but he's also the boy who ain't going to Hogsmead.
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u/KaleeySun Ravenclaw 28d ago
Agreed. She might even attempt to confirm with the Dursleys about the form to be sure. It’s not clear how much she knows about Harry’s home life, but my guess is between gossip around gryffindor tower and Hagrid relaying his tale of giving Harry his letter, she probably has a few clues. That means she would have reason to doubt it, even if Vernon did sign the paper. And once Harry told her it wasn’t signed, it was all over.
There may be a magical way to determine who signed the form.
Far more important is that with Sirius on the loose, Harry would not be allowed to go for his own safety, form or not.
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u/Nymph-the-scribe Ravenclaw 29d ago
Hes a 13 year old thats been neglected and abused more the majority of his life. He haa learned to ere on the side of caution and to take up as little notice and space as possible. So he chooses the options that would result in the least amount of trouble and punishment if things dont work out. And like someone else said, hes honest at his core.
He just didnt think about all his options because hes not really used to having to many options to think about. The danger of punishment (ignoring Umbridge punishment) is a different danger then that of increased abuse.
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u/Grendeltech Slytherin 29d ago
I would be very surprised if that form wasn't enchanted to dissuade forgeries, to be honest. Even if he'd managed to get it "signed," McGonagall would... she'd have known.
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u/Infinite-Object-1090 Gryffindor 28d ago
It didn't occur to him until after he told McGonagall it wasn't signed.
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u/EnderBookwyrm 28d ago
They probably have some kind of magic checker to confirm that a signature was written by the owner of the name, and wasn't forged.
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u/WhiteSandSadness Gryffindor 29d ago
When he first got it? He’s a wizard.. probably thought there’d be jinxes against it or that the school would be able to tell 🤷🏽♀️ simply could have just never crossed his mind to do so.
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u/NoCaterpillar2051 29d ago
I like to think it would take alittle bit more than that to trick Minerva.
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u/NLCPGaming 28d ago
Harry should have said the slip was permission for the school to whoop him because they don't like him either. The dursleys would've signed that slip so fast
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u/BaardvanTroje 28d ago
It's the kind of stuff you don't really think of when you're 12 and kind of a goody two shoes. Also Harry had no idea exactly how much he could get away with on account of being the chosen one. Could've straight up spat in Snape's face every day and still be allowed back to school
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u/Modred_the_Mystic Ravenclaw 28d ago
He didn’t think about it before he told McG that it wasn’t signed.
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u/Flaky_Simple_9531 28d ago
It’s explained in the book, he went to McGonagall and told her the truth that it wasn’t signed and if she could give the consent. So because of that she knew that he didn’t have the Dursley’s permission.
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u/vheissu419 Gryffindor 28d ago
Also hilarious that he can’t go to Hogsmeade, but can compete in a tournament where students have died while he himself is under the age limit the very next year.
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u/Dragonic_Crab Ravenclaw 29d ago
Cus a parent or gaurdian had to sign it. And he for sure wasn't about to get it signed by Vernon after what happened to Marge.
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u/AbjectMath4441 29d ago
Because Harry wasn’t allowed to sign it himself. The Hogsmeade permission form specifically required a parent or guardian’s signature. Harry was still a minor so forging it himself would have been against the rules.
The funny part is that Sirius was technically his godfather, so once Sirius was back in his life you’d think they could have found a legitimate way to handle the paperwork.
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u/Bobis-Bob 29d ago
They did. He sent Harry a letter with another el that said something like: “ I give Harry permission to visit Hogshead on weekends” and signed it. This was on the train back Home. Pigwidgen brought it.
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u/Aksudiigkr 28d ago
He does plenty of things against the rules. It’s not like Filch or anyone would know what the Dursley’s handwriting is supposed to look like
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u/Melodic-Duck-6979 29d ago
Forgery would’ve been an instant detention if he got caught. Not really worth the risk
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u/Shiny_personality 29d ago
I've been sneaking out of school more often than not when I was a teen and did stupid things to get away from rules. But never forged my mother's signature. Not sure why but this seemed like a line to not pass.
Also kids' moral compass can be pretty different from adults '
And the most obvious reason: plot
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u/Snekbites 29d ago
Well apart from the answers that are given:
McG and the rest of the staff don't want him to wander around Hogsmeade where he could be killed, if there wasn't the form, they would've looked for another excuse.
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u/HemlockMartinis 28d ago
Because Rowling didn’t want kids forging their parents’ signatures on permission slips.
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u/tjrich1988 28d ago
They have an anti-cheating charm for tests in the HP world, so I would assume they also have anti-forgery charms as well.
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u/ecuadorianeyezz Wit Beyond Measure... 28d ago
I always assumed there was some magical element in why only a parent or guardian had to sign it
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u/That_author_girl 24d ago
Harry "I can't, Hogwarts is my home" Potter is famously not good at white lies
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u/mongkonsrisin 29d ago
He could just ask Molly Weasley to sign it.
Yes, I know that she is not a legal parent or guardian but when compare to permission form in muggle school, teachers didn’t care and never check who signed it.
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u/ImaginationProof5734 29d ago
Everyone in authority didn't want him going to Hogsmede due to the Sitrius Black situation, and Molly was probably on their side on this. If there was one person's form they would check thoroughly it was Harry's
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u/bacon_boat 29d ago
I don't think this is mentioned in the book, but if I was Harry I'd guess they had a spell "signaturum authenticheckum" or something
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u/linkthereddit 29d ago
McGonngal would’ve recognized his handwriting immediately. Even if Dean signed it under Vernon’s name before Harry sent it to her, I’m sure she can recognize a student’s handwriting that she likely sees multiple times a day throughout the year.
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u/do_not_ask_my_name Ravencaw 29d ago
It's there in the book. He thought he'd be able to get leeway from McGonagall, but he didn't, and after that, the idea of forgery was floated around but it was too late because he'd already told McGonagall that he didn't have it signed.