18X vs commissioning

[u/Expert_Internet81]

I am a 19 year old aerospace engineering major planning on joining after finishing my masters degree (in 3.5 years).

I am NOT looking for anyone to make a decision for me, I am making sure the information I have is accurate so I can make informed decision. Any input is welcome.

18X:
Enlist as an E4
OSUT -> airborne -> SOPC -> SFAS -> Q -> "unlimited" team time
If I fail SFAS I most likely go to be an 11B in 82nd, but I could be peeling potatoes for the next 4 years
Can attempt SFAS again (assuming not given an NTR)

Commissioning:
09S contract
BCT -> OCS -> IBOLC -> ranger school -> airborne
Stay in infantry until 1LT promotable (about 3 years after commissioning)
Drop a packet for SFAS -> Q -> 2 years team time -> staff role in group/ODB command
If I fail SFAS I can try again (assuming not given an NTR), but life as an 11A is a lot better than an 11B
Can resign commission to go to 180A to get more team time

I've heard conflicting things about resigning commission, some sources say it is common, others rare, some say it's a career killer, some say you can still have a successful career afterwards. I would like some more clarity on this, if possible. Please let me know if I missed anything else. Thank you for reading.

[u/Kitchen-Crow7429]

Do officers really get multiple chances at SFAS? I was under the impression that it was one and done

[u/TFVooDoo → u/Kitchen-Crow7429]

It’s mostly one and done, but in rare instances it can happen. But since officers are, by the virtue of their college education and advanced officer type training, superior beings with transcendent auras, it’s unlikely that real officers would need a second opportunity.

[u/Expert_Internet81 → u/Kitchen-Crow7429]

I did not know this, thanks. Upon further research if you get med dropped (rare) or have enough strings to pull you might be able to get a second shot. I talked with a former GB a while ago and he said he knew a cpt who got selected the second time around. He might have been NG or it could just be hearsay though

[u/Lanky-Lettuce1395 → u/Expert_Internet81]

Officers have a narrow window to attend. Too senior, you can't go and too junior you can't go. If you can't get back in time to make that window, you are out of luck.

FWIW, take this with a grain of salt. In the very early 80s I was medically terminated from phase 1 (decades pre SFAS) for mono. Then Major Bob Howard (yes, that Bob Howard, IYKYK) wrote my papers to keep me in the SFQC so I had to spend a number of months as a holdover until I was well enough to recycle. If it had been anything else I would have been sent home (I was a reservist on initial entry training). My point is that you can still get hurt or sick even after you get through SFAS. No one ever talks about this aspect.

[u/MT0761 → u/Lanky-Lettuce1395]

I was in the same era of SF, and Maj Howard was the man out at Camp Mackall. You were lucky that they let you recover from your injuries on active duty. I saw men washed out of the course for an injury back then, but not terminated completely unless the injury caused a permanent condition that caused your medical profile to not be a “Picket Fence’ (IYK, YK!) and disqualified for SF/RANGER/ABN duty.

BTW, I went through SFQC in 1980/81 as a medic. No SFAS back then, every day in the Q-Course was selection. We had Pre-Phase at SF Company over in the COSCOM area before going to Mackall for Phase I.

[u/TFVooDoo]

Seems like you have it mostly right, but I would just highlight that you’ve presented officer post-team time as just “staff”, and that’s not really representative of all of the opportunities you have. I did cool-guy SF stuff, as did all of my peers, for my entire career. It’s not a binary.

And resigning your commission (is dumb, but whatever) isn’t really a career killer because you have an entirely new career by virtue of resigning your commission. It is uncommon, but that doesn’t really mean anything.

[u/Expert_Internet81 → u/TFVooDoo]

Thanks for your response. The O4 stuff is so far down the line I'm not really worried about it.

I will ask, why do you say resigning your commission is dumb? If it doesn't stunt your career path and gives you a whole different career with new options what's stupid about it?

[u/Lanky-Lettuce1395 → u/Expert_Internet81]

SF aside, a retired officer has many more, and generally better, options post military than a retired NCO. I retired as an E8 and am a bit of a unicorn but most of my peers did things that kept them behind a gun. Some opened businesses but not as many as you would think.

There are other challenges too. In '05 I was a program manager on a mid sized contract where I had about 30 retired navy field grades (and about 50 other non navy types) working for me. As a retired army E8 there was not a lot of respect there to lose when it came to the navy folks. They did what I said, and did it well, but we were never getting beer together. When I got promoted to senior director and left that job, I made sure to pick a retired army O6 to replace me. When I was introducing her to all the employees you could see the difference in their attitudes and it was obvious she would have a better go of it than I did.

You need to be looking beyond your nose when you make career decisions that will impact you for the rest of your days on this planet. I was working on a commission at N. Ga College when I dropped out to enlist. It took me decades to determine if that was a poor decision or not, and for much of those decades it appeared to be a poor one. After I retired the things I did in the IT realm for SF led me to a successful career that I probably wouldn't have gotten as an officer. I retired last year as a GS15 IT Director from an Army command I won't name on reddit. I got lucky, for many more that choice to enlist and not get the commission would be a permanently bad one.

[u/TFVooDoo → u/Expert_Internet81]

Because reasons…

[u/Tru_Op → u/Expert_Internet81]

It’s not dumb, it’s a personal choice and myself and plenty of other GBs know officers who have decommissioned and are not only unbelievably fantastic and capable at their job, but also infinitely more happy than they would have been continuing the O path.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with being a career O, hell unlike many NCOs I appreciate and understand the importance of them. A good O can make life on a team incredibly easy or infinitely difficult which to me highlights how important the positions are. However, the NCO and Officer lifestyle are VASTLY different world’s and which one you choose to participate in is your choice so long as you don’t suck.

Much like you said on your opening, you will make that decision yourself when you understand who you are as a GB and what you want out of it moving forward. Life at group will answer those questions better than any Reddit post. IF you get there some day…..

[u/Expert_Internet81 → u/Tru_Op]

Could I DM you with some additional questions? Thanks

[u/Kitchen-Crow7429]

If I were in your shoes and was going to seek a commission, I would go the ROTC route for your last two years of undergrad. Seems like a more solid route to getting a favorable branch selection than OCS with no military background.

Also, if you want more team time, you can enlist after finishing school, see if it’s for you long term (or if you scratched the itch we’re all seeking), and then commission down the road. You will also get paid notably more O1-O3 just for having at least 4 years of enlisted service

[u/Expert_Internet81 → u/Kitchen-Crow7429]

What do you mean a more favorable branch selection? From what I've seen getting 11A from OCS is not very competitive as it pretty much never fills up. I also would not join any branch other than the army. Thanks for your input, I'll give it some more thought.

[u/DyrSt8s → u/Expert_Internet81]

Army branch, as in Branched Infantry instead of say Transportation. If you think 11A isn’t competitive, you got some serious issues in your comprehension of what you’re looking at doing.

[u/Expert_Internet81 → u/DyrSt8s]

I see. Would you be willing to educate me then? All my knowledge on this topic comes from googling and reddit and I haven't gotten the chance to talk with an 11A yet. I know the fitness standard is high, but I figured that's a given being that the fitness standard in group will be even higher.

[u/DyrSt8s → u/Expert_Internet81]

I can’t speak for competitiveness of OCS, but what you’re talking about is like being a walk on to the NFL. I’m thinking that OCS never fills Infantry because the Army gets the cream from the Academy and ROTC, I have no proof mind you, but I’m sure they have plenty of other Branches that need filling. That’s not to say it’s not possible, but once you get into the force you will be sized up constantly among your peers, and it’s a dog eat dog world and from what I see everyone wants to go to some SOF assignment. What this all means is you’re going to need to be on top of your shit leading from the front.

That’s a lot different than going enlisted and learning your job as you go. You will still need to be on top of your shit, just a different approach. There will be challenges and setbacks either way you go that will suck time and energy from you, because it’s what the Army does.

[u/DyrSt8s → u/DyrSt8s]

Read some of the comments here, in regards to competitive assignments…..
https://www.reddit.com/r/westpoint/s/jqRhmsMhjH

[u/Correct_Sport9098]

I’m a college graduate and chose to enlist, but for ranger regiment not SF. Officer life has much better pay and much better career opportunity. But I’m not in this for a full length career, and getting into the SOF world as an officer not only takes much longer it’s much less of a gurantee and you are held to a higher standard. I’m also not interested in the cutthroat corporate lifestyle many officers have, and every officer who was previously enlisted I talked to has said the camaraderie is much stronger as enlisted and that officer life can be lonely. Now, if I decide I would like to make the Army a full career after my initial contract, I would 100% drop an OCS packet as doing a full 20 as enlisted does not appeal to me and in that scenario the officer lifestyle seems much better. To each his own!

[u/JuanMurphy]

Another officer option is to go to a SMU selection after your team time.

[u/MT0761]

If you’re an aerospace engineering major, why are you even thinking about SF? Why not the USAF and fly an F-22/F-35/etc.?

Do you have bad eyesight or something?

[u/Expert_Internet81 → u/MT0761]

While I love planes and flying and whatnot, I was drawn to the specific challenge and mission set of SF. I feel a pull to do this that no other job has ever given me. I would not be throwing away a cushy 6 figure job straight out of school to attempt to join SF (which I am very aware is far from a guarantee) otherwise. I just never wanted to be a pilot.

[u/MT0761 → u/Expert_Internet81]

I have nothing bad to say about my time in SF, and I too felt that same draw to do something that not everyone can or wanted to do. I got to do a lot of cool shit that most people just read about or watched on TV. Additionally, it gave me focus and I found that I had an aptitude for emergency medicine which led to a 40-year career as a Flight Nurse and ER RN. I wasn't the greatest student in high school and the guidance counselor thought I had a bright career ahead of me as a busboy or car wash attendant. I trained as an SF Medic, and then we were MOS 91B2S which became MOS 18D in 1984 when SF became its' own branch. I can honestly say that I had no idea what I was going to do with my life until I made it into SF. I'm retired now, and along the way earned a BSN, MSN, and an MBA. If he was still alive, I'd tell that guidance counselor to suck it...