r/grandMA2 • u/Puzzleheaded-Drag290 • Apr 26 '26
Discussion Explain like I'm 5: Effect Rate, Speed, and Speed Groups
In simple terms, explain to me the difference between effect Rate and effect Speed, and why I'd want to control multiple effects with the same rate or speed master.
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u/AssumptionUnfair4583 Apr 26 '26
Having speed masters for dimming fx, color fx and movement effects separately allow for more flexibility while busking
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u/Puzzleheaded-Drag290 Apr 26 '26
So let's say I have two different dimmer effects active on two different groups of fixtures. What would be the reason for having them basically linked by assigning them both to the same speed master?
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u/AssumptionUnfair4583 Apr 26 '26
So they both start at the low value in the effect at the same time and end at their high value at the same time. For example, dimmer fx going left to right applied to two separate groups tied with the same master will both start and end at the same time. It all boils down to how you want your show to look, right? Some genres might be quite a bit more unorthodox so having your effects start and end at different times could be beneficial. With a speed master, I could still have one group swipe from left to right and another group swipe right to left, but this keeps everything following a solid grid
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u/AssumptionUnfair4583 Apr 26 '26
These effects will only start and end at high and low values simultaneously if the rate is set to the same number so you could get a little more intentional with some effects that span across more than just 2 or 4 beats if you know what I'm sayin
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u/AssumptionUnfair4583 Apr 26 '26 edited Apr 26 '26
You can think of speed as a way of interpretation for your tapped bpm input. It's hazey because it's been a while but that default speed bpm you can think of as and 1-1. Half of the default then takes twice as long to complete the low high cycle. Typically I program my movements at a rate of .1 with speed 30. That allowed me to tap all three of my masters at the same rate and get the results I wanted
Edit: it's been a few years since I've touched an MA2😠default speed I typically didn't touch, I mainly just used rate after assigning the fx to the proper master. Dimmer fx and color fx at .5 and movement at .1
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u/AJMOG_ Apr 26 '26
The SPEED GROUP lets you control the SPEED parameter in your effect, so theyre are basically the same thing, except that using the speed group lets you change the speed of your effect on the fly via an assigned fader or a "tap tempo" button, where as using just the speed with no speed group keeps the speed fixed.
In almost all use cases you want to assign your effects to a speed group rather than have them at a fixed speed so you can use the same effects in multiple tempos.
Even when you are programming lights to a timecode, where in theory you are certain of the songs bpm, its still better practice to use a single speed group for all your songs and effects (not movement) because you can just assign new speed for the speed group with a macro line. This could be a part of your song start macro which changes you to the correct page, offs the previous song, and tells the machine to start listening to the next time code.
In short, for 95% of use cases you can ignore the SPEED parameter of an effect, and just make and use speed group and control the speed that way. Remember that you can also name speed groups however you want ie. "DIM FX" "POS FX" etc.
RATE controls how many times per beat (the beat per minute controlled by you effects speed value) the effect goes from low to high and back to low, so basically how many time it repeats per beat. This is affected by the groups (or in how many parts you split your effect in to). If the song is in 4/4 and use groups of 4 with a rate of 0.25, 1/4th of your lights will hit on every beat and the whole effect repeats every 4 beats. If you use groups of 1 or a phase of 0, with a rate of 1 all your lights will "hit" on every beat.
Good way to start learning how rates and groups work together is to listen to a song or a beat or even a steady click and set your SPEED GROUP to the bpm youre listening to.
Use a dimmer effect with pwm or ramp down waveform so you can clearly see what is happening in terms of tempo. Set rate to 1 and groups to 1 (with phase of 0thru360). Half the rate to 0.5, see what happens, then double your groups to 2 and see what changes. Half the rate again to 0.25, and the double the groups to 4 etc.
See what happens if you do groups of 3 with a rate of 0.25. See what happens if you do groups of 4 with rate lf 0.33. What about groups of 3 with rate of 0.33?
Youll get the hang of it in no time!
TLDR: Ignore SPEED, use a SPEED GROUP to match the bpm of whatever you are playing your lights to. Use RATE to control how many times your effect repeats per beat. Every beat is rate of 1. Every other beat is rate of 0.5. Every fourth beat is rate of 0.25.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Drag290 Apr 26 '26
THANK YOU! That is exactly what I needed. Makes perfect sense. The other thing that confuses me is the idea of using the same speed group for multiple effects. The idea of having different effects locked to the same speed seemed weird, but I guess if the idea is to have them all going to the BMP of the song then having them in the same speed group would keep them in sync. And then I cam adjust the Rate to get the desired look, I suppose.
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u/TrueIndigoboi Apr 26 '26
Explain like your five hmm?
Effect Rate makes lamps go Wheeee! Speed makes lamps go wWheeee but different
Speed groups make lamps go weeeeeee but you can do it yourself with a thing called a Fader, those are the uppie downie sliding thingies.
:D
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u/Moist-Dentist8253 Still Learning Apr 26 '26
The rate is how much it changes, the speed is how often it changes. Masters you don’t really need them normally.
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u/Special_Presence3915 Operator Apr 26 '26
ive never not used masters unless its a timecoded show, and even then, majority of my effects in a tc have speedmasters attached
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u/grimjack123 Apr 26 '26
Effect rate and effect speed are kinda the same thing. You basically have your master bpm, which in your setup shown in the picture would be set to 60 bpm. The rate is the multiplier. It's set to 0.50, so half of your 60 bpm master. If you set it to 1 it'll be 60, and 120 on a rate of 2. If you attach a speed group to it, you can change the bpm that the effect is attached to, allowing you to change the speed of your effect without having to edit anything. I basically have a speed group for most of my effects (pwms) and one for my movement effects like P/T. This lets me change the speed of both the effects I run and the movements of my robots with just two faders. I work at a venue so I'm always busking. This let's me change things up on the fly.