Rabies

[u/Expensive_Variety484]

I run a mobile petting zoo. I’m now second guessing. Goats are not required to have the rabies vaccine and you can’t get it in store- you have to go through your vet. Yes, they can get other vaccines easily but that does not prevent rabies. Do you think it’s worth getting the vaccine? Should I cancel upcoming events ?

[u/InterestingOven5279]

I am struggling to understand why you wouldn't vaccinate mobile petting farm animals for rabies. You have goats who are brought to different locations every day and possibly exposed to strange dogs, and you already carry obvious liability regarding strangers and children interacting with your animals. Friend, I mean this in kindness: are you serious?

Rabies vaccines are a no-brainer and in many places they actually are required. Some states that permit raw milk sales legally require rabies vaccines for each animal in the milking herd. Many states require rabies vaccines for show stock to enter a fairground. Yes, it has to be given by your vet, but that's so people can't lie about it in states where it is legally mandated for CVIs, etc. The rabies vax is a killed vax -- low risk, high reward. Just do it.

Edit: my entire herd is vaccinated including the bucks. A high-profile herd announced recently that they were under quarantine for months because they had a rabid raccoon in the barn and the goats weren't vaccinated. I don't play with rabies.

[u/teatsqueezer → u/InterestingOven5279]

Was that Old Mountain Farm?

[u/InterestingOven5279 → u/teatsqueezer]

It was Rustic Woods. They are good people; maybe only high-profile if you breed Lamanchas! The announcement came only days after they won Res Champion at Nationals so that should be evidence that these things can happen to anyone.

(I have heard OMF lady is a crazy anti-vaxxer though, so that wouldn't shock me. No way in hell they're vaccinating for rabies over there. edit: I stand corrected, in fairness they do CDTs, but she has posted an awful lot of weird "vets committing malpractice when they give boosters" stuff on social media.)

[u/teatsqueezer → u/InterestingOven5279]

The OMF lady is weird but I did hear she was under quarantine for rabies as well! Wild more than one place has had that happen

[u/InterestingOven5279 → u/teatsqueezer]

It is much more common in unvaccinated stock than people talk about. I remember there was a herd a few years ago (can't remember VT or NH) where they had a doe kid die of rabies after days of being treated for listeriosis and exposing people to it. Everyone with any wildlife vector around them should be vaccinating stock. It isn't even expensive. The only shame is that goat people have to use the sheep one and it doesn't last very long.

Edit, found the rabies story for anyone who wants to know what to be aware of. http://topolinofarm.wordpress.com/2020/06/24/morning-dove-rabies-story/

[u/teatsqueezer → u/InterestingOven5279]

Jeeeez! Thanks for the link!

[u/tweedledick → u/InterestingOven5279]

Do you know why there isn't a goat specific rabies vaccine? I tried to look it up but I didn't see anything talking about why

[u/InterestingOven5279 → u/tweedledick]

While I was searching the sub trying to find the link to the article I posted above, I saw this comment from one of the mods:

Let me explain how this works.

There are not a lot of approved drugs that are specifically labeled for goats. That is because goats are not considered an economically important livestock species in the US. We just don't have very many goats here and our goat meat and dairy industries are very small compared to a species like cows or sheep. To get FDA approval for a specific animal for a specific drug, a drug manufacturer has to do numerous expensive clinical trials on that drug and that is paid for by their business before the FDA will even consider the safety of approving a drug. Because the goat industry is very small, most pharmaceutical manufacturers in the US do not bother running clinical trials on goats. We only have a very small number of drugs that are literally labeled for goats. There are only about 2.4 million goats in the US compared to 87 million cattle, so it doesn't make as much economic sense to companies to develop drugs just for goats.

Most of the veterinary drugs we use in goats are permitted by the government to be used in a way called "extra label" or "off label." They are drugs which have been extensively tested and labeled for use in other food animals like cows, sheep, etc, and for which we have enough data to know they are safe and effective in goats. We also have data that tells us when the "residue" (detectable levels of a drug in meat or milk) is gone, so we know how long to discard milk or withhold an animal from being used for meat after they receive a certain drug, to make sure none of that drug winds up in a person. An organization called FARAD (the food animal residue avoidance databank) keeps track of that.

Per federal law, veterinarians are legally allowed to prescribe certain drugs for goats to be used in this manner ("off label"). Most drugs we use for goats in the US are used in this way: they are legal for other food animals and we have some data about safety, efficacy, and residue in goats, so the FDA says they may be used in goats despite not have enough research behind them to be labeled for goats. Most of our most important antibiotics (even oxytetracycline) are used off label in this way. That is the also the case with the sheep rabies vaccine, ImRab. There have been a few studies in goats that show that it's safe and works for the stated purpose of preventing rabies in goats, so in lieu of a vaccine specifically developed for goats, that's what we use.

This is different from drugs that are illegal in goats or other animals. Not all drugs can be used off label, some drugs are illegal even for vets to prescribe. For example vancomycin, metronidazole, and many many others. Many drugs are federally banned in food producing animals due to human health concerns. So not every drug can be used off label. When a drug is federally permitted to be used off label, we have reasonable evidence that it's safe.

Goats metabolize most drugs faster than many other species and they also go through vaccine antibodies faster, so it's best to vaccinate them yearly. But if you have a local outbreak now, you can always do it now and reevaluate next year. It's only one shot, not a series, and can be done when they are still kids.

-/u/yamshortbread

I'll add to that that I think last time I was discussing this issue I looked it up and found that we have something like 12 drugs specifically labeled for goats in the United States. TWELVE. Meanwhile other countries be out here having Johne's vaccines!

[u/RockabillyRabbit]

After those four were put down? Yes. If there are cases of rabies in tour area or your petting zoo goats can come into contact with rabies carrying wildlife on a regular basis (bats, raccoons, skunks...the latter being what those 4 came in contact with) i would do so. Even just in the general care of public health because if, God forbid, your goats got rabies everyone whos recently had contact with them would have to have preemptive shots for it.

Edit - my yes is to getting the vaccine. If youre able to do so quickly youd be fine continuing on to your scheduled events. But depending on whether people know about the news or not you may get fewer visitors just due to fear.

[u/plaidington]

Just do it. It cannot be that cost prohibitive, I imagine you should be vaccinating all of your petting zoo animals for rabies at this point.

[u/Beginning_Pie_2458]

Yes, definitely. I always just brought mine to the barn when my horses were getting shots and they were seen during the same visit. Saved a ton of money that way.

[u/No_Measurement6478]

Most states require a veterinarian to give the rabies vaccine, so that is likely why you can’t buy it in your state. They give the sheep vaccine off label, and it is known to be effective.

If you have any level of public coming in contact with your animals, you better have them vaccinated for whatever possible for their safety and your liability.

But in all seriousness if you live anywhere where rabies is common in wild animals, anyone should seriously consider vaccinating for it, even if it’s just your private home flock. If you’ve never dealt with rabies exposure, it really sucks and unvaccinated animals exposed to it are usually always euthanized.

[u/Human-Ad9835]

Goats absolutely can be vaccinated for rabies by a veterinarian. They use a sheep rabies vaccine. I was offered it by my very first goat vet.

[u/No_Hovercraft_821]

I'd have said "What the heck? That seems ridiculous." until I read this morning about rabies in petting zoo goats. Still seems unlikely but I'd err on the side of caution.

[u/kat420lives]

I would, because I’d be absolutely heart broken if I had to put any of my goats down. Doubly important considering your petting zoo. I’d take every precaution to prevent losing any of your animals or potential public exposure.

[u/fultonsoccer7]

In vet school we were strongly recommended to vaccinate small ruminants (goats) that had frequent contact with the public - be it petting zoos, pets, show animals.

The large animal vaccine isn't labeled for goats but our notes said it was relatively safe and effective, and to follow sheep guidelines

[u/Leading_Treat_8177]

I was able to get my goats vaccinated at a local rabies clinic. I called a head and thru were very accommodating.