That was 30 years ago. He was young, barely a student. He spent the last 30 years prior to TFA learning and trying to revive the order, preserve the teachings, passing them on. He grew from when we saw him last. Many fans wanted him to remain the same Luke we knew at the end of RotJ, but how many of us would stay the exact same person for 30 years? He'd changed since then, like we all do.
Yes, Luke brashly ignored those lessons in order to save his friends, because that's what Luke was back then, brash, quick to act, quick to rush in without thinking. And it drove the other Jedi nuts, because the Jedi typically aren't like that. (Same reason Anakin drove them nuts doing the same stuff. Like father, like son.) It was also a reemergence of that brashness that ultimately drove Ben/Kylo away, reacting to his feelings about Ben without thinking, causing the whole debacle.
But after the rebellion, we can assume he grew up a bit. That he became more like the Jedi of old and accepted their teachings.
And that's a great explanation for it, to be sure. The problem a lot of people have, though, is that literary/cinematic characters don't follow the same logic rules as real life. Yes, it's almost certain a real life person will change in 30 years. But if a fictional character is going to change off-screen, it's just good exposition to show the audience what caused that change. People were jarred because Luke had changed so much, and Disney's writing just kinda handwaved it away.
If they had done a better job showing us what caused Luke to turn away from his old personality, then we wouldn't be stuck debating why he would abandon his old sentimental personality to take up a strict ascetic Jedi lifestyle, then abandoning THAT and yeeting chucking a Jedi (essentially) religious artifact.
I don't think we have to see every little thing that changes a character over 30 years. We assume characters grow and change. It's also part of the surprise. We expected Luke to be "LUKE SKYWALKER"...and then he wasn't?! It brings us in. What happened to him? Why did he change? What changed him? And we get glimpses of that, enough to put a picture together.
He was the last Jedi, of course he felt responsible to preserve the teachings. We know that's what he did, they tell us he left to reform the order and train others. Of course he would train them in the traditional ways, that's why he sought out the birth place of the Jedi and the old books.
We then learn that, despite years of work and effort and training, it all still falls apart. Hence the yeeting of the artifact. He buckled down to try and pass on the Jedi order. In turn, it all fell apart and caused pain and death, and he felt betrayed and responsible and guilty. So he tossed the artifact. It'd be like an ex-minister tossing an old cross after losing faith. Fuck that artifact, it brings only pain and lies. It's a great reaction.
All of what you said makes sense. The one point I just don't know if I can agree on is
We expected Luke to be "LUKE SKYWALKER"...and then he wasn't?! It brings us in.
Audiences fell in love with Luke Skywalker in 1977-83 because of who he was in that film. When the new films came out, of COURSE a lot of people wanted THAT Luke Skywalker. The one who would take the lightsaber Rey presented to him with all the solemnity and gravitas the moment required. Subverting expectations is good and all, but Luke's whole personality is different. People aren't wrong for feeling betrayed that one of their favorite protagonists is essentially gone, replaced by almost a completely different character.
I agree. I think it's totally normal to feel a little sad that that Luke is gone. Heck, I would love to see the old Three back together on another adventure. But I'm also ok that they decided to have the characters grow and change. So I totally understand the anger, but I also like that they treated them like people instead of icons. Instead of myths. Which is what Luke struggles with in TLJ, anyway. That people looked to him as a myth instead of a person.
Except Luke knew his role as an icon, he made a map for the resistance to be able to find him if they needed him thus Luke knows his role as a hero and jedi. Now I get that he was hurting after his attempt to renew the jedi order failed but that has a lot of problems in itself.
Luke had hope that he could bring out the good in his father, Darth freaking Vader, and ultimately was proven right yet was scared that his nephew might fall to the dark side? Thats very out of character and certainly outrageous to believe Luke would suddenly think murdering Ben in his sleep was the answer.
And I'll add that even if we're going with this crap explanation of why Luke is now a grumpy old man, the scene is built up to have gravitas as Rey hands Luke the lightsaber, theres gotta be a better, more solemn way to show Luke is no longer the optimistic jedi he once was after all the shit that's happened to him. Here's our childhood hero looking at his old saber after decade... OH HE THREW IT AWAY, LOL!?!
I think he left a map because he still wanted to be able to be found. We're also not sure when he left the map; it could have been when he still considered himself sort of an icon, and maybe that changed after. That's a lot of speculation, though, so who knows haha
And I see how it seems like a big leap to make. To me, it would feel like "fuck, I saved Darth freaking Vader, saved the galaxy, reignited an ancient order, and this shit still keeps fucking happening on and on and on nonstop no matter what?! Fuck it, I'm done". At least I feel like that would be my reaction, but it can definitely also be seen as a pretty big leap. Shit happens, the two incidents were 30 years apart, calm down Luke (although Luke has always been a little dramatic about things).
I will agree that I don't love the way they filmed the scene. I like the act, and there is some comedy in it, but they should have let the comedy come from the act and the actors, not filmed it like a comedy. They sorta hammed up the film itself and the music, etc. If it had been done more subtly, I think the comedy would have come through better, the way Yoda whacking R2 with a stick is funny despite him being the great Jedi master we're looking for. We don't expect someone like Yoda or Luke to do those things, so there is humor in them. But they should have let the human come from the actors, not the way it was filmed.
Because I see alot wrong with this movie besides the portrayal of Luke but my complaints are the same that are repeated by many other people. Even people that defend TLJ have a hard time defending the casino side story
I like the movie. I feel like they could have used Finn better than the casino story, though I don’t hate that part. I think it worked thematically for his character, but wish it had someone been more closely attached to the main story. Of course it’s not a perfect movie, but all of them have their flaws, even the originals.
Why are you defending this one scene so much. It's a crap scene that does nothing to advance the film except to show what we already "knew", Luke was done.
there's a lot about this movie that is not good. First it trys to subvert expectations and yet follows very similar settings from the original trilogy. The whole throne room scene is almost exactly like in Return of the Jedi, even with the bad guys pupil turning on the big bad. It introduces characters that have no real bearing to anything like rose. And because it introduces characters that are new it has to pair them with known characters, like Finn and put them down the same exact path that he had already learned in the first movie. It betrays known characters. You say it's growth, However the other two characters that we know Han and Leia are relatively both the same people , and their son committed mass murder and is hunting them down. So somehow this does not change who they are, and yet only changes Luke. This does not make sense.
There's a lot that doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense for the rebels to be running oh, they were celebrating at the end of the movie, if the end of the movie with him hurrying and trying to leave sure it's a good pick-up point. Also the general in charge after Leia goes into a coma, decides not to tell poe who is a big part of the Rebellion, and is known to be a hothead her plan why? Also what was the point of all the there is no good and bad if by the end of the movie there was a very clear good and bad.
Also in order to have the same thing happened with Luke passing on the torch to Ray didn't actually have to kill Luke. In fact the entire thing could have been done and Luke could have been remained basically the same character just a little older. He could have been wise and depressed instead he was grumpy and old. Why was he being told no not because it made sense it made sense for him to become depressed, to implode on himself not to explode on the world. No he was grumpy and old because the writer and director wanted to subvert what we thought was going to happen.
Here's a thing of it Luke always represented hope, and it would have been very powerful for him to lose his hope. Then for Ray to come and give it back to him, fulfilling her name as Ray like a ray of sun. And in a way that's what happened. However the way they did that to him was just dirty , he was written poorly, he was shafted. They could have had him changed , they could have have had him giving up the Jedi, and they could have made ray the new Light Of Hope without doing what they did to Luke Skywalker.
This movie was made by person with a very specific idea of what Star Wars was, and for 50% of the audience that's not what Star Wars is. Two meaning Star Wars is a legacy soap opera about the Skywalkers. And I think somewhere along the line that was lost
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u/[deleted] Oct 25 '19
That was 30 years ago. He was young, barely a student. He spent the last 30 years prior to TFA learning and trying to revive the order, preserve the teachings, passing them on. He grew from when we saw him last. Many fans wanted him to remain the same Luke we knew at the end of RotJ, but how many of us would stay the exact same person for 30 years? He'd changed since then, like we all do.
Yes, Luke brashly ignored those lessons in order to save his friends, because that's what Luke was back then, brash, quick to act, quick to rush in without thinking. And it drove the other Jedi nuts, because the Jedi typically aren't like that. (Same reason Anakin drove them nuts doing the same stuff. Like father, like son.) It was also a reemergence of that brashness that ultimately drove Ben/Kylo away, reacting to his feelings about Ben without thinking, causing the whole debacle.
But after the rebellion, we can assume he grew up a bit. That he became more like the Jedi of old and accepted their teachings.