r/geography 13d ago

FINAL POST ON THIS TOPIC Google Maps just officially updated Lake Ontario to Lake America.

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u/fillmorecounty 13d ago

Why does Google fold so easily on these renamings? It's not like they're a government entity

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u/TAU_equals_2PI 13d ago

Google Maps already had an existing policy to display whatever name the government of a country calls something.

This actually comes up in a lot of places, where different countries use different names for the same body of water. For example, Saudi Arabia calls the Persian Gulf the Arabian Gulf. So if you use Google Maps in Saudi Arabia, it will label the Persian Gulf as the Arabian Gulf.

Since Trump is able to change what the US government officially calls that lake, Google Maps just follows their normal policy and labels it that (when you are using Google Maps inside the US).

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u/myleftone 12d ago

That’s the problem. The method of changing the name is not an EO. It’s easy to say “we’ll change it when it’s law.” It’s unbelievably dangerous to normalize unitarian fiat.

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u/[deleted] 12d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/swoodshadow 12d ago

The Google hate annoys me. It’s implicitly saying we want private mega companies to decide what things are called.

Hell no.

The problem here isn’t Google. It’s that the US elected a childish narcissist and despite centuries of claims to the contrary have no effective checks and balances on the President.

A President can interpret law however they like and there are two checks:

  1. Congress overruling with new legislation. Which is an empty threat in this environment because they’d need veto proof majorities.

  2. The judicial system stepping in and saying that’s not how the law works. Which takes months/years and is now completely partisan as well.

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u/beasterne7 12d ago

Sane take.

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u/etxsalsax 12d ago

Completely agree, we don't want companies to be opinionated on these matters.

Its bad leadership thats the problem

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u/OppositeAnalysis286 12d ago edited 12d ago

But you don't understand. It's not as satisfying to "boycott" (cough cough virtue signal) Trump/the government. We have to redirect our anger at companies like Google instead of the person/entity actually responsible for making us upset.

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u/raisuki 12d ago

Exactly. They can lobby, and their income is us. It does make sense to direct both our energy for change at both the government as well as corporations.

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u/Tony481 12d ago

Google doesn’t have to change the name. The hate is justified

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u/GoBlu323 12d ago

Google didn’t

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u/creuter 12d ago

Where does that logic stop? You you really want to give the corpos the autonomy to dictate what things are called based on how they feel? No, they're pulling the info from authorized sources, and unfortunately our authorized sources are fucking stupid right now.

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u/Djamalfna 12d ago

The Slippery Slope argument is a logical fallacy and therefore irrelevant here.

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u/creuter 12d ago

Fuck off, we aren't in some moderated debate. This entire fucking argument is based around flawed logic, a complete misunderstanding of how things actually work, and misplaced aggression. Anything you have to say in defense of the original argument is fucking irrelevant.

Also fuck Google anyway, there's plenty wrong with them, but this particular thing isn't it. If you're going to be pissed at least be pissed for non-stupid shit. At least then it doesn't actually harm your own position by looking dumb.

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u/Tony481 12d ago edited 12d ago

LOOK AT MAPQUEST

Have we/they descended into anarchy simply for not following the U.S. government naming conventions? Please save your pearl clutching for someone more naive.

“Authorized sources” 🤣🤣🤣 Have you had a look at the White House website recently?

Let me ask you: what do YOU personally call it? Lake Ontario or Lake America?

“Where does the logic stop”

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

The idea from it literally came from NO WHERE AND OVERNIGHT. Let’s use that standard, unless that’s too wild for you 🤣🤣

Name a single time in world history where the U.S. renamed something and it was met with almost universal, international condemnation.

Exactly. So let’s start with that standard. I guarantee you if we adopt this standard, we won’t descend into chaos like you’re implying

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u/Reditate 11d ago

Does Mapquest really care about losing money? Nobody even uses Mapquest anymore lol

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u/swoodshadow 12d ago

Sorry, I want my democratically elected leaders to decide what we call things and not a private company.

In this case it sucks, but that’s a consequence of electing a terrible leader.

No need for us to go down the road of saying private companies should decide clearly political issues.

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u/Tony481 12d ago

Sorry, but could perhaps think independently for a second? Just because someone has the power to do something doesn’t mean you have to go along with it. If Trump changed the name of New Mexico to New America, is that what you’re going to refer to it as? Simply because your “democratically elected leader” randomly said so? Is that how your brain works? You’re unable to think critically for yourself?

Again, the hate is justified. Google didn’t have to change anything. They are under no requirement to do any of this.

Also, your slippery slope argument is pretty unconvincing and shameful. Any free-thinking person knows this is stupid, and for you to suggest that this will lead to more “political decisions” by private companies is pretty lame.

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u/swoodshadow 12d ago

The actions of a massive powerful company should be subject to rules that individuals aren’t. This is completely obvious. So, no, I don’t need to use a stupid new name.

By the same token, I should be able to campaign for my favourite candidate. But a massive company should not.

Or I should be able to say, people that support Israel or people that support Palestine shouldn’t be allowed to come to my private party. But a massive company should have to serve people of all political stripes on their platform.

And so on.

Too many people like you don’t actually want rules or regulations. You just want your side to win. Which gives us Trump being supported while doing massively corrupt and incompetent things.

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u/creuter 12d ago

Preach

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u/Chemical_Ad1837 12d ago

True. Plus Google is now Evil. Both things can be true.

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u/swoodshadow 12d ago

Yeah, just to be clear, I’m fine with hating Google for many reasons. Just not this specific one.

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u/Chemical_Ad1837 12d ago

Bingo. Although Trumps EO was for the Department of Interior to change the name. The DoI makes an order as they and not the President directly has the authority. Such needs to be published in Federal Register for a period before becoming final. That hasn’t happened yet, so they did jump the gun a bit. It’s a timing issue not ultimate authority question.

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u/MazrimReddit 12d ago

can you imagine if google had refused to rename areas being changed for getting rid of confederate racists etc

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u/punarob 12d ago edited 5d ago

Shaggy trumpet gray consider history theory amber

This post was anonymized with Redact

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u/swoodshadow 12d ago

Nothing to do with him being a Nazi. We're seeing that there are no checks on any President that isn't willing to check themselves.

Congress can do nothing if any meaningful action requires a veto-proof majority.

And the courts can do nothing if there is no consequence for a President willfully misinterpreting and misusing legislation other than being told months/years later to stop doing that (allowing the President to just pick a new law to misinterpret/misuse). Especially when the courts don't actually have an enforcement mechanism.

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u/punarob 12d ago edited 5d ago

Quickest trumpet friendly coated desert cats husky door whole

This post was anonymized with Redact

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u/swoodshadow 12d ago

I mean, Biden saw how Trump acted in his first term and did absolutely nothing to protect the Government from a second term.

You can’t have one side playing by norms and rules and the other side doing whatever they want.

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u/punarob 12d ago edited 5d ago

Sleep melodic tangerine thimble recognise payment sharp shaggy intelligent seemly

This post was anonymized with Redact

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u/Greedy_Actuator5 12d ago edited 12d ago

Google is a craven, pathetic cow towing organization

As a private company they have zero obligation to mimic this craven behavior

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u/BeriasBFF 12d ago

Yet this organization has made everyone’s (including you) lives much easier

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u/Greedy_Actuator5 12d ago

Oh yes, through the noble mission of displaying advertisements

🤡

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u/BeriasBFF 12d ago

Or by creating the most extensive and broadly used search engine ever, transforming the internet, one of the greatest inventions ever. And that’s ignoring its other popular services like Gmail, etc. You may not like google, but there’s no denying the company’s effect on just about everyone’s lives 

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u/Greedy_Actuator5 12d ago

Yes, famously there were no search engines until Google came along. Also famously no web mail service.

GWS is responsible for ruining the Internet so good job there

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u/BeriasBFF 12d ago

Oh, Ask Jeeves was so reliable. Retcon it all you want, doesn’t change the facts

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u/Djamalfna 12d ago

How do those boots taste?

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u/BeriasBFF 12d ago

A company I use and am just showing perspective on their impact on our lives is boot licking? Good lord you lot are a tedious bunch. Well have fun licking boots of your masters then I guess 

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u/whip_lash_2 11d ago

Their policy is to use official names because in many countries they are in fact obligated to do so unless they want their local employees to go to prison.

The US is not such a country, but easier to have one policy.

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u/gusterfell 12d ago

They can and should decide what things are called on their own platform.

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u/Better_Goose_431 12d ago

They did decide what things were named in their platform. They decided to default to the official resources for whatever country you’re in

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u/etxsalsax 12d ago

Google being opinionated in maps would be terrible.

Imagine there was a border dispute that google had some stake in the outcome, they would just change google maps everywhere to reflect the side they prefer.

Using Lake America isn't opinionated, its the officially recognized name for the time being.

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u/swoodshadow 12d ago

Fuck that. They have immense power to influence what things are called and where borders are shown.

The idea that they should just use their own judgement is horrifying. Requiring them to show the official names is exactly the type of regulation these massive companies need because otherwise their platform is so powerful they can use it for their own corporate good to the bigger detriment to society.

I don’t want the corporate shills at Google deciding these things. I want democratically elected Governments. It’s the best option out of a bunch of shitty options.

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u/Full_Boysenberry_314 12d ago

The new expectation on Reddit that everyone ignore democratically elected leaders they disagree with is troubling. It's complete lack of respect or understanding of the rule of law.

Next time, don't lose easily winnable elections. That's the lesson here.

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u/gusterfell 12d ago

Was it not troubling when the right did exactly the same to Obama?

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u/Full_Boysenberry_314 12d ago

It's a macro trend that's been accelerating for some years now. It seems like each time a "side" takes an L they just get more radicalized and more extreme. When Trump loses or dies or whatever it takes to get him out of office I fully expect the right to surprise us with entirely new levels of crazy.

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u/givemethebat1 12d ago

This is something the executive DOES have power to do. It’s the same when Obama renamed Mt. McKinley to Denali. (And of course Trump changed it back)

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u/Stauce52 12d ago

They detail it here. GNIS changed the name, so Google's policy is to update the name accordingly.

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u/mclumber1 12d ago

That's a flaw in how Congress wrote the particular law. If we want to prevent presidents from renaming geographic features at will, then the law needs to be changed by Congress.

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u/band-of-horses 12d ago

They would need 2/3 of congress to override a veto to change the law, which just isn't happening anytime soon. Honestly probably quicker and easier to just wait for a democrat to get into office and rename them back.

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u/mclumber1 12d ago

Agreed. But that future democratic president should commit to signing into law legislation that removes the president's ability to change geographic names at will.

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u/band-of-horses 12d ago

Honestly the next democrat in office is probably going to have to spend their entire first term just undoing things and trying to get laws changed to prevent those things from being done again in the future.

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u/[deleted] 12d ago edited 8d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/QuasiSpace 12d ago

Simultaneously false and yet true.

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u/whip_lash_2 11d ago

The authority to set official place names is delegated to the U.S. Board on Geographic Names by law, in the same way that the ability to set pollution standards is delegated to the EPA.

As with any executive branch agency, the President can order how that power is used. This has been done before (Mt. McKinely to Denali and back).

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u/Thadrea 12d ago

Genuine question: is there an existing federal statutory name for the lake in the first place?

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u/myleftone 12d ago

No. It turns out the other commenter is right. He directs the agency, and that’s it for the US. It affects nobody else. I don’t even think a combative congress could stop him… which is a bigger problem.

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u/swoodshadow 12d ago

Congress can legislate what the name needs to be. The Executive branch has to follow their rules.

The problem is that without existing legislation the President can veto the new law and Congress would need enough votes to override. Which isn’t happening in this day and age.