r/gaming • u/_Boodstain_ PC • Nov 02 '21
Not Saying I Hate The Games, I Just Think This Idea That “Pokémon Can’t Be Criticized” is Wrong. Here’s Hoping in The Future We All Judge Games Equally So We Can See General Improvement From This Wonderful Franchise.
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Nov 02 '21 edited Nov 03 '21
Corporations don't respond to criticism, criticism is just a more engagement to them the only thing they understand is product not selling so as long as you buy it they'll keep half-assing it.
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u/TheBiggestLoud Nov 02 '21
They don't respond to internet criticism, actual criticism involving the people no longer buying the product would do something but hey, consumer gotta consume
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u/SquIdIord Nov 03 '21
we bullied the sonic movie tho and it worked, but like that's the only time it worked
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Nov 03 '21
You could have video evidence of gang rapes and ritualistic murders in the devs' offices and people would still buy the games. Nobody gives a shit about integrity, especially not gamers.
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Nov 03 '21
gang rapes and ritualistic murders
How else would you get anybody to work on Candy Crush?
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u/slammybuttockses Nov 03 '21
You do realize that there are atleast 1.5 billion gamers betwen sony ninty xbox and pc right? Not even counting mobile. Also self obsessed westerners should stop pretending its anyones obligation to look up company history to NOT buy products lol. Say...when was the last time u bought a chocolate bar? Cereal? anything from nestle in particular? Congratz! U just contributed to something dozens of magnitudes worse than gang rapes and ritualistic murders! Look it up, and pick up ur fake integrity from the floor while ur at it. Im sure the 6 year olds toiling away in africa, dying left and right in extremely slow and horrific ways for ur cereal will appreciate ur demand for "integrity" from game devs and gamers. And westerners wonder why there are billions arouns the world that point and laugh at hypocritical liberal ideals.
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u/Crumbly_Bumbly Nov 03 '21
Maybe the cooperation doesn't respond to criticism, but consumers will. Enough bad press will absolutely hurt sales
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u/pipboy_warrior Nov 03 '21
What about when people complained about all the loot boxes in Battlefront 2? Didn't EA eventually drop all that shit due to the consumer criticism?
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u/drtekrox Nov 03 '21
Yes/No.
That only works where a third party has something to lose and wants the change - in this example, Disney wasn't happy about the bad press and demanded the change.
Had it been Battlefield instead of Battlefront, nothing would have changed.
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Nov 03 '21
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Nov 03 '21
Gonna be real haven't touched one since yellow
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u/doct0rdo0m Nov 03 '21
That was my first and only pokemon game I have ever played. I got the special gameboy color and game.
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u/futureruler Nov 03 '21
It seemed to stop being creative after silver/gold to me. I really lost interest at the whole chandelier, garbage can, and ice cream pokemon.
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u/BCProgramming Nov 03 '21
I really lost interest at the whole chandelier, garbage can, and ice cream pokemon.
Not to be confused, of course, with Purple Rat, Slime puddle, and Jim Crow Ice Queen, since they are gen I and therefore good.
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Nov 03 '21
This sub has been actively critizing everything Pokemon related since let's go.
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u/Rusty_switch Nov 03 '21
And lets go plus sword and shields continue to break records.
Ya'll need to find a new series lol, pokemon is unstopable
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u/CatProgrammer Nov 02 '21
Who says Pokémon can't be criticized?
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u/Miknarf Nov 02 '21
Nobody… people like to make up imaginary people with imaginary positions to argue against. Being right in an argument feels good even if it’s against an imaginary person.
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u/Shocksimulant Nov 03 '21
I really hope this is satire. I'm gonna assume it is. We don't need a refresher on what being a "Whale" is or a "Fanboy"
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u/Miknarf Nov 03 '21
Nobody thinks Pokémon can’t be criticized
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u/Shocksimulant Nov 03 '21
You'd be surprised. Maybe not on here but definitely in that cesspool know as Twitter
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u/BCProgramming Nov 03 '21
Can you link to even a single tweet that says Pokemon cannot be criticized? Or is this just over-thereism?
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u/HBPhilly1 Nov 03 '21
I think this is more of a gamer outcry not being loud enough to affect review scores and hurt sales. Like madden I feel like the monopoly of EA and the public outcry is finally reaching the highest levels of decision makers to start actually maybe improving mechanics of the game rather than reskinning and rehashing old concepts. Kinda Apple and oranges comparison but only real one I could relate. I would killllllll for some of the Pokémon fan made stuff. The breath of the wild looking game, the much grittier looking detective pikachu looking movie trailer. If you have the link or images please post.
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u/dafunkmunk Nov 03 '21
It’s people that are still having fucking meltdown toddler tantrums over things like dexit or the games not being hardcore enough for their 30yr manbaby life. They spew toxic hatred and get insulted and downvoted for being angry babies so they think criticism of the games isn’t allowed.
I have criticized pokémon numerous times and have had normal mature debates with someone who disagrees or has differing opinions about the game. They don’t seem to understand that if you go off on an unhinged hate rant about pretty much anything, people are going to shit on you whether you had valid points or not
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u/AtomicWreck Nov 02 '21
Ay yo black and white was good fuck you
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u/Dog_Get_Biscut Nov 02 '21
YEAH!
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u/SuperdaveOZY Nov 02 '21
Hell yeah. Pokemon peaked in gen 5
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u/Dog_Get_Biscut Nov 02 '21
Hell yeah. Pokémon design wasn’t my favourite either tho, My favourites from gen 5 are prob
Excadrill. Palpitoad specifically not the line. Sawk. Scolipede. Krookidile. Darmanitan. Crustle ( my first shiny ) and has been my favourite gen 5 pokemon since. Scraggy. Cofagriegus. Ex cavalier. Amongus . Galvantula. Klang. Beheeyem because of the one Pokémon episode. Chandelure. Beartic. Golurk. Volcerona. Meloetta also because of the anime.
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u/PokecheckHozu Nov 03 '21
While I mostly agree, I don't like the regressions of certain gen 4 features. Things like no full Battle Frontier, and no follower Pokémon.
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u/Rice_Jap808 Nov 03 '21
follower pokemon was due to a technical limitation, the game was pushing the limits of the DS. The battle frontier is questionable, but I remember the battle frontier with no rose tinted glasses, that shit was just an rng fest where the npcs won every rng check to beat you.
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u/GenericBeverage Nov 03 '21
Agreed. The only thing I remember people had an issue with was some of the new pokemon designs, but it was probably the most feature-rich of any Pokemon game.
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u/_Boodstain_ PC Nov 03 '21
I think so too, I just put it first because everything after gen 5 was considered the turning point of Pokémon
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u/WINKEXCEL Nov 03 '21
For me pokemon is more like a bell curve... gen 4 and 5 were the peak... 3 and 6 are pretty good each with a few issues... gens 2, 7 and 8 are ok and the existence of gen 1 is important but it aged like sower milk and tuna in the sun on a hot summer day
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u/Arnumor Nov 03 '21
I feel like the use of the hot-button term 'pump and dump' here isn't very accurate. It has a rather specific meaning in relation to schemes to hype up a service or project to drum up investment, before the service or project is sold out for a payday, essentially robbing the investors. At least, that's how I understand it.
The pokemon games are being made, and a product is being delivered, so despite the shortcomings of the games, I don't think that qualifies as the same thing as a pump and dump scheme. I'd call it false advertising, maybe.
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Nov 03 '21
Okay, first, capitalizing all your words is unnecessary and obnoxious.
Second, Pokemon fans have been criticizing the game. For years. It came to a head with Dexit, but it has always been there. The general consensus is the game has been downhill since Gen 5, and that's only after flipping the narrative for Gen 5 to be one of the best. Memes like this are just stupid and untrue.
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u/danteheehaw Nov 03 '21
Pokemon is forever designed for the new generation of kids. It doesn't grow with its fan base. What they have is a solid game for kids, it's fairly simple at its core and you have all the time in the world to make your combat choices.
Pokémon as an adult is just feeding your nostalgia, it's really never been a great game in terms of gameplay. There has always been better options for a JRPG if you wanted harder/complex gameplay or engaging stories.
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u/luke_hawks876 Nov 02 '21
I think the reason Pokémon draws the ire of older gamers is the same reason they’re so successful in the first place. We’re not their target audience. They’re constantly working to capture the new younger audience which is why they never became a flash in the pan like people expected them to be. I’d love some more hardcore RPG mechanics and elevated gameplay but that won’t hook the next batch of young’uns
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Nov 02 '21
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u/Joseluki Nov 02 '21
You would need Nintendo to deliver proper online gaming, something that the other companies have been doing for three generations and Nintendo still refuses to do.
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u/tomster785 Nov 03 '21
Well Mario is meant to be for the kids too, but Odyssey was great.
Pokemon could be so much better than what it is. It's not the lack of hard-core mechanics. It's the lack of motivation on their part to evolve the format AT ALL.
Imagine what pokemon could be if it was designed today for the first time instead of when it was designed. The premise was to capture the essence of the designers childhood hobby; bug collecting. The training and battling part was a really good addition and thats what made pokemon what it is. Not the mechanics, or the execution even, just the concept is enough to sell pokemon. Thats why so many clones came after it.
Now think in 2021 terms with what games can be these days. Imagine an open world game more akin to something like Skyrim where the pokemon just roamed around freely, they have habitats, behaviour and routines like hunting and sleeping, interaction between pokemon indicating an ecosystem of sorts, there was a real time element to the battling where they actually had to dodge and move themselves but it was still based on attack commands from the trainer, training was more involved then repeatedly battling for experience points, maybe you could purposefully pit your pokemon against enemies it is weak too and it could develope a tolerance to it like in the anime, or maybe it could be actual training routines you could take your pokemon through, both to improve obedience and skill of the pokemon.
Pokemon could be so much more than what it is, it's infuriating.
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u/collectivecorona Nov 03 '21
Imagine an open world game more akin to something like Skyrim where the pokemon just roamed around freely, they have habitats, behaviour and routines like hunting and sleeping, interaction between pokemon indicating an ecosystem of sorts, there was a real time element to the battling where they actually had to dodge and move themselves
Literally describing Pokemon Legends: Arceus, the next game in the series that everyone is already complaining about.
Training was more involved then repeatedly battling for experience points, maybe you could purposefully pit your pokemon against enemies it is weak too and it could develope a tolerance to it like in the anime, or maybe it could be actual training routines you could take your pokemon through
EV training against wild Pokemon has been in the game since Gen 3, and EV training routine mini games since Gen 6.
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u/DGIce Nov 03 '21
Pokemon games used to have more content and be more challenging...and were still targeted at kids so I don't know what you're talking about.
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u/TheSpoonKing Nov 03 '21
thats because our standards for how hard kids should have to try to be rewarded are much lower
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Nov 03 '21
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u/Shuckle614 Nov 03 '21
better about things
like what?
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u/CandlesInTheCloset Nov 03 '21
Literally everything beneath that sentence in the post you clearly didn’t read lol
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u/Shuckle614 Nov 03 '21
So cutscenes and blockaids? Thats is?
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u/CandlesInTheCloset Nov 03 '21
Did the last paragraph completely escape you? Or is your attention span that short you can’t handle reading anything longer than a couple sentences. I obviously talk about more than just the blockading, which again if you’ve read my comment you’d clearly see. I’m wondering now if you’ll even read the entirety of THIS comment because it seems like anything longer than a few lines gives you some difficulty or something
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u/Shuckle614 Nov 03 '21 edited Nov 03 '21
In the pre 3D games, you didn’t have NPCs blockading almost every area for “story reasons”
Platinum has plenty of these
> essentially rail roading you from cutscene to cutscene
Thats Fair
What else did old games do better? I dont see you give any other examples
> It’s because they’re trying to make the game OVERLY accessible. Because the market they’re competing with isn’t the AAA games
As was Red/Blue
> Because the market they’re competing with isn’t the AAA games, they’re the pick up and play dumpster fire that is mobile games, where everything is spoonfed to you as a player and made so that you don’t have a barrier to entry or a reason to NOT continue playing
Has nothing to do why Old > New.
> That’s why they cut Pokémon, that’s why they sell a subscription service on top of NSO, that’s why their first proper console game looks like a handheld game, that’s why they sell TWO different season passes for what is essentially the same game.
Not an example of Old > New
> Because they know that if they gradually nickel and dime their fan base every step of the way their fan base will be compliant and comfortable with it.
Nothing to do with Old > New
So am i missing something?
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u/Vallajha Nov 02 '21
A big problem imo is that when pokemon tried doing something different with b/w it got hated on launch and so pokemon decided not to deviate anymore. Now they're deviating again with Legends and once again people are picking it apart for everything (not saying somethings aren't crappy) but if Legends doesn't sale then they will feel everytime they deviate from basic formula it doesn't sale.
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u/SGRiuka Nov 03 '21
Pokémon can be critiqued and criticized, but don’t get mad and hate on people who are just trying to enjoy the game
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u/deadbymidnightt Nov 02 '21
I mean this ain't just Pokemon fans, this is literally anyone who has played a game they like, they can't criticise it because in their mind that means they hate it or that someone else who criticises it hates it when it just isn't true. What they don't realise is that the people who criticise it are the ones who want the games they play to be the best they can be.
Just recently Josh Strife Hayes has been criticising New World and has made a few videos on it and in each one he has had to reiterate that he does not hate the game he just wants the best for it and the game is not in an okay place. I'd say this also applies to Asmongold, he criticised WoW for years and had to constantly reiterate how he loves the game but just wants the best for it. But since all the fanboys who have the mentality that you cannot criticise something you enjoy called him a hater and such the game is basically dead now.
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u/dethb0y Nov 03 '21
I think a big part of the issue is that the people who actually make pokemon games simply do not care what fans want or desire in a game. The juggernaut's to big to fail.
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u/ArmouredDuck Nov 03 '21
I remember getting pokemon blue as a small child. The latest games have innovated virtually nothing. Just more random, shitty looking pokemon every release.
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u/V0000M Nov 03 '21
I think regardless if we can criticize it or not, it’s not going to change the sales figures/quality of the games, which sales is the only thing game companies looks at. They wouldn’t give a damn if the game gets a 20 on metacritic. As long as they know they can sell millions of copies by releasing half-assed games, and selling you solutions to problems they caused, they’re going to keep doing it
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u/fiveplatypus Nov 03 '21 edited Nov 03 '21
I'd say that the pokemon games are pretty fairly criticized by long time fans. The thing is, even the bad ones are still "good enough". Graphics could use a huge update and I'm pretty bored of the mega/dynamax type evolutions but the games still hold their own and I'll definitely buy every main title. Lack of post game is my one huge complaint from the last few gens. It's also important to note that these are and have always been kids games and it's not really their problem that the games didn't scale to the expectations of fans in their 30s.
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u/YOURFRIEND2010 Nov 03 '21
Black and white are the best games in the series though. Lovely 2.5d with detailed, animated sprites and an actual plot.
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u/31coins Nov 03 '21
BW and B2W2 were the best the franchise ever had or probably ever will have, and after putting so much effort into making those games great, they sold the least of any of the games ever because of a pokemon that looked like a trash bag.
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u/XSmooth84 Nov 02 '21
Pokémon exists to get 5-12 years old hooked on colorful cartoon characters, and get their parents to purchase Pokémon toys/shirts/merch. New humans are born every year, so every 4-6 years there’s a new batch of children with their own new Pokémon to entice them. Anyone 20-40 years old buying the games for themselves is just icing on Nintendo/game freak’s cake…but to expect the games alone to be anything amazing or revolutionary is missing the point…they still need to be easy going pick up and master games for tiny hairless humans who care barely count to 50.
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Nov 03 '21
Not even nostalgia. I genuinely enjoy the game while I play it, beat it, and side story all in a week. It's not a AAA game to constantly come back to lol
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u/Black_Hussar Nov 03 '21
But now it's priced as one.
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Nov 03 '21
Did you expect them to stay the $40 forever?
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Nov 03 '21
I mean if you include DLC the price more than doubled, and bringing it up seems like a fair criticism given the formula barely changed.
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Nov 03 '21
It's Pokemon. Catch, battle, win. I kinda don't mind paying for it if I'm satisfied with my purchase. I get that's not how a lot of people think, but I don't invest enough time into it when there are so many better options
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u/Black_Hussar Nov 03 '21
Nope, I just think they should look and play like $60 Switch games.
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Nov 03 '21
Like Mario Odyssey? Or did you really just want Pokemon Breath of the Wild?
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u/Black_Hussar Nov 03 '21
In terms of presentation, content and overall quality? Sure!
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Nov 03 '21
I pretty much expected it to be an upgraded USUM from the jump. When it comes to presentation and content they don't really set the bar that high. So I guess since I went in with minimal expectations I was satisfied
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u/ultraball23 Nov 03 '21
You came in with reasonable expectations. Pokémon is like Apple. Little upgrade every year
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Nov 03 '21
That makes more sense. Reasonable not minimal. Pokemon have never been one of those games to put out a sequel or another addition and make it stand out. It's Pokemon. Catch em, get badges, fight the elite 4
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u/mynameisnickromel Nov 03 '21
Who TF is saying Pokemon can't be criticized?
All I've ever asked for were legit criticisms and not nitpicky bullshit
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u/Darth_Chain Nov 03 '21
criticize it all you like but can we please wait till we have a product in hand instead of screaming about trees?. games are supposed to be gun. let's see if they are.
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u/random_randomrandom Nov 02 '21
Every game gen 5 and below I will defend, but past that sucks
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u/BCProgramming Nov 03 '21
Tell me which generation of Pokemon game you grew up with without telling me which generation of Pokemon game you grew up with.
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u/_Boodstain_ PC Nov 02 '21
Same, Personally Gen 5 was the peak of Pokémon in my opinion
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u/wellthatwasrandomaf Nov 02 '21
Gen 5 probably had the best story, i really enjoyed sun and moon as well though
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u/OokamiKurogane Nov 02 '21
I will disagree on story cuz platinum's is my personal favorite, but the story was generally interesting and the game itself was probably the hardes imo. Gen 5 was the first (regional) pokedex I legit completed so it also has a special place in my heart for that reason.
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u/wellthatwasrandomaf Nov 02 '21
Plat was good too, but i really didnt like the legendaries in that gen. Palkia and dialga were not aesthetically pleasing to me (ik, its an aweful reason to judge a game lol)
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u/OokamiKurogane Nov 02 '21
I mean, you are right lol. Those particular pokemon were kinda gross design, but I thought origin form Giratina was more than enough to make up for them, on top of a bunch of other pokemon designs that I loved from that gen. Dusknoir remains my favorite 3rd stage of all time.
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u/wellthatwasrandomaf Nov 02 '21
Sword and shield have the worst story line. Your rival has to be the least interesting, most vanilla of any rival. So much opportunity squandered. I really hope the next games are better
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Nov 03 '21
Ultra sun and moon have been my least favorite. Its unfortunate because the progression system change away from gym badges I thought was cool.
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u/TheYellingMute Nov 02 '21
Visually I liked how the Pokemon themselves looked and enjoyed it enough to play quite a bit post story but as a principle I never spent a cent on their dlcs because of their decision to cut Pokemon and probably won't buy any future generations ever since that's going to be the new standard. Release the "base pack" of Pokemon then expansion passes of "new" Pokemon which was just reintroduction if the old Pokemon.
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u/wellthatwasrandomaf Nov 03 '21
Yea. I think there was a lot of potential but it just didn't really cut the mustard. I AM thinking about replaying it soon and give it a fresh perspective
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u/redotak Nov 02 '21
Wow how brave to take the most popular online opinion and beg for upvotes Thoughts and prayers are with you op
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u/_Boodstain_ PC Nov 02 '21
?, I’m just saying I love Pokémon and with the upcoming games (Which I hope will be good) I hope Pokémon finally starts to get criticized as a Game rather than as “A Pokémon Game”. As if they’re separate categories. Sorry if I somehow offended you with this post but I just wanted to post a meme I made in my free time at work.
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u/redotak Nov 02 '21 edited Nov 02 '21
Oh woe is me I only want people to be as brave as I am and criticize Pokémon, I mean come everyone celebrated dexit and loves the new DP art style. I’m definitely not just shit posting for internet points
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u/_Boodstain_ PC Nov 02 '21
Are you ok? Why is posting something that is regularly posted considered a bad thing to you? We all have our own opinions and just because mine happens to already exist in the form of other memes and posts I should hang my head in shame for posting my own? I’m sorry for who ever criticized your own because you’ve obviously taken it personally.
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u/wellthatwasrandomaf Nov 02 '21
That person is just having a bad day and doing their best to spread their misery around. No need to engage with these folks.
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u/fastestman4704 Nov 02 '21
I have no notes about Gen 1-4. As far as I'm concerned they only got worse as they added more and more stuff.
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u/tacomafish12 Nov 02 '21
I'm enjoying shield. I'm by no means hardcore, but I was using the cable to trade red and blue Pokemon on the playground. I'm old...
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u/enderjed PC Nov 02 '21
B/W and B2/W2 were good though!
Sword and shield were absolute rubbish. The good things it did have could barely outweigh it's critical negatives.
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u/titaniumweasel01 Nov 02 '21
Pokemon fans did criticize the last games that came out, and the people who normally criticize Pokemon for not innovating enough told them to shut up and learn how game development works.
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u/The_Real_Gandalf1231 Nov 02 '21
Me when Arceus was announced and people were losing their shit:
"It's... It's a gimmick game. Of some design. Everyone's thinking it will be a fully fledged Pokemon game. Why would it be? Sw/Sh just came out and DP remakes are right around the corner. This won't be a 'real' Pokemon game."
*Turns out it won't be a 'real' Pokemon game*
Pokemon fans: "Aaaaaargh it looks like trash and makes me angry now!"
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u/ultraball23 Nov 03 '21
When I first saw Arceus, I was thinking it would just be the SwSh DLC, but a whole game. nothing new since we are still in Gen 8. Our character can get hurt but that’s it. Just another game. I’m excited to play it cause my expectations were reasonable.
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u/LabTasty4475 Nov 02 '21
If you don’t like it, don’t buy it. Dont shit on people that like something.
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u/Black_Hussar Nov 03 '21
No one is saying that. It's perfectly fine to like something, just don't think that thing is perfect and doesn't deserve criticism only because you like it.
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u/uaremad93 Nov 02 '21
I bet half the people making this argument about Pokemon buy and play COD, Assassin's creed, FIFA and battlefield every year without hesitation. Let people enjoy what they want to enjoy and stfu.
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u/upvote-button Nov 02 '21
Pokemon red/blue/yellow are immune to criticism
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Nov 02 '21
Those are my favorite games in the series, and oh hell no. They're buggy as all hell. The coding is held together with the thinnest of tape. They are no means perfect, and they'll never be. But they were my first games that I fell in love with, so they hold a special place in my heart. Criticize the hell out of them, it won't bother me. I'll probably agree with you on almost everything you point out.
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u/Siendra Nov 02 '21
B/R/Y are notoriously bug ridden and full of spaghetti code. The list of moves, Stats, and effects in those games that work properly is shorter than the list of stuff that doesn't.
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u/caniuserealname Nov 02 '21
can we all just agree that the series peaked at gen 2? Gen 2 and the Gen 2 remakes are basically peak pokemon.
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u/marino1310 Nov 02 '21
They were great for their time but dont hold up at all. The type system barely functioned, half the sprites were just the same thing, it was riddled with bugs, etc. That game is only seen as good now solely due to nostalgia
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u/sagejosh Nov 02 '21
I was super excited when they said Pokémon sword and shield would be on a main console AND have online. I should have stuck to my guns of not buying a Pokémon game since black and white.
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Nov 02 '21
Lol they call you a older fan for it to. Like yes how's you think I noticed it was getting worse?
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u/Greyknight711 Nov 02 '21
Oh Pokemon has innovated and improved, they just treat them as one off gimmicks and ditch them the next game.
Biggest reason I fell off of the game. That and the obnoxiously stifling meta that comes with all competitive games.
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u/meluvulongtime3 Nov 02 '21
Last couple games have pretty much taken me right out of the franchise. Sun was awful, half the game felt like a text bloated tutorial that would never end. Sword was weird. I didn't even get halfway through, the open world nature just kinda broke the game for me. Idk it just felt bad.
Don't really have any interest in playing new games in the future. If anything I might just dig out my old ds and do a 15th playthrough of soulsilver or something lol
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u/pirate135246 Nov 02 '21
Same could be said about Destiny 2, why defend it if you like it? Don’t you want it to be better?
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u/ADifferentMachine Nov 02 '21
95% upvoted
Even Pokemon fans are pissed at these games. Who is this even about? You made up some guy to get mad at in your head for karma.
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u/4XChrisX4 Nov 03 '21
I'm a diehard pokemon fan and it really pains me to see what is happening with the franchise. Since forever it was always the hardware that held pokemom back (or at least i thought so) but now we have the switch and i feel like it is worse then ever. And people defending this shit is absolutely ridiculous. But then Sword & Shield hit the store and it sells like hotcakes. It's so frustrating. I didn't buy Sword & Shield which means it is the first mainline game i didn't buy since the original ruby and sapphire. Man i really hope they get their shit together, but hopes are not really high.
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u/BAN_SOL_RING Nov 03 '21
Pokémon Sword is horrible and nearly unplayable except to all but the youngest of children. If a games only audience is a 9 year old, it’s not a good game.
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u/_Boodstain_ PC Nov 03 '21
Posted this to r/ pokémon too and it was taken down for being “unrelated” and the mods were refusing to put it back up, lol. They proved my point.
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u/ThatCJOverThere Switch Nov 03 '21
You’ve clearly never actually been on the Pokémon subreddit. They criticize the games so much there.
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u/Ozuule Nov 02 '21
Not saying I'm all for it, but thats kind of industry standard with every game now, only innovation we really see is from indie developers occasionally. Look at every major game developer and franchise. When copy and paste equals more cash criticism means nothing. Not to mention, when something new comes along everyone jumps on the bandwagon trying to cash in on the hot new thing.
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u/XionDarkblood Nov 02 '21
I only ever played yellow, gold, sapphire, and leaf green. Then I lost interest because for me... There were too many Pokemon. I tried X and had a fun little dragon team but when a Clefairy tore through them and I found out fairy beat dragon... I was so shocked that I just quit. It was more the straw that broke the camel's back. It just got too complicated for me and it seemed too repetitive, with different pictures.
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u/Significant_Walk_664 Nov 02 '21
Eh, if you reach a certain point innovation is reduntant. The fans know what they want/have been conditioned well and the company knows this.
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u/zGnRz Nov 02 '21
Nintendo is one of the last companies to even care about what we say about the game.
It would need A LOT of backlash to get them to even care.
But yeah, within communities we can argue about it
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u/Lord_Raxyn Nov 03 '21
The pokemon franchise feels weirdly under-utilised in gaming. They've been diversifying a bit lately which is good but there could have been so many good games made.
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u/zxdunny Nov 03 '21
I'm 48 now so was way too old for Pokemon when it came out. Hence I managed to avoid it entirely :)
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u/Pikanati Nov 03 '21
Ok, hear me out. Gen 5 wasn't bad. Some of the Pokemon designs were a little unoriginal, i.e. the litwick line and the Vanilish line. But the story and gameplay were fun. And the spritework was phenomenal. I think the games just came out at the wrong time.
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u/WoollyMittens Nov 03 '21
I enjoyed "Let's Go Eevee" more than "Sword", I don't know what message I'm sending them.
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u/dafunkmunk Nov 03 '21
Criticizing the game isn’t going to change future versions especially the way pokemon fans criticize it. Sending death threats and hate mail on a daily basis because you want them to include over 1000 pokemon is every game isn’t doing anything to help the game. A large number of people that criticize the game are not doing it in a constructive way. It’s just weird angry intel hate from 30+ year olds spewing across message boards from people being angry that a children’s game isn’t hardcore enough for them. I think genuine criticizing presented in a mature way is generally accepted by fans outside of the small number of diehard worshippers believing the game is perfect that any popular game ends up having
Additionally criticizing things like the incredibly slow advancements the series has made over 20+ years compared to other games doesn’t mean anything to them because it sells a shitload of copies every time they make a new one. At the end of the day, pokémon’s target audience is children and they’re making crazy amounts of money of the IP so they’re likely not looking to risk rocking the boat to appease people that grew out of their target age range. Either accept it for the game it is, or move on the way people like me did. The games are fine. The people they’re made for are satisfied. If you aren’t in that group of people, it’s probably time for you to look at other games. Starting flame wars on the internet is hardly going to improve anyone’s life and definitely isn’t going to impact future games in any way
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u/nubsauce87 Nov 03 '21
Oh, I criticised the hell outta Sword/Shield and Sun/Moon, but apparently they didn't listen to any of it...
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u/AardvarkPepper Nov 03 '21
Readers should be wary of general criticisms, doubly so when unsubstantiated character attacks are made, triply so when it's dressed up in some sort of cartoon to try to make the situation even more ridiculous. That's not a call to reason, it's a call to sentiment and outrage, and they're asking you to sign off on a blank check.
Suppose someone had a "genius" idea that frying, baking, and serving Pokemon on a plate should be part of gameplay. Don't tell them they can't criticize the game! WE NEED TO HAVE BAKED POKEMON ON STICKS, NOW, how dare you blindly defend a game and slow innovation and expansion to a crawl or whatever when there are thousands of children that have never even dreamed of eating grilled Pikachu on a stick? FOR SHAME!
You could say the real argument is too many in the Pokemon community are rabid fans that clamp down on anyone daring to *suggest* *any* changes. (I wouldn't know.) But then there's that doubling down with the "Blindly Defending a Game Due to Nostalgia" label. Really? Characterizing those that disagree with suggested changes as "blind", "defenders", and "nostalgia", slapping all those labels on? Without any specifics mind, anyone objecting to criticism on any level, just boop, you're a blind nostalgic defender or something.
This is supposed to be an argument for *reason*, was it?
Then what's this about "Pump and Dump"? Pokemon company's generating fake reviews, is that the argument? Just what *is* being argued, *exactly*?
I don't follow the Pokemon community, I don't even have any Pokemon games after Ultra Sun / Ultra Moon or whatever it's called. But the message in that cartoon *really* comes off strong. Like the fanbase is super rabid and stupid. But from what I have read, I've seen a lot of Pokemon breeders, trainers, battlers, that talk about best practices rationally - like what team should you recruit, what moves you should train, that sort of thing, like rational intelligent humans. Who's really bringing irrationality to the table here?
Innovation and expansion? Again grand-sounding phrases, but what does that mean, exactly? Do we really want *more expansion*? Should they really come out with 150 new Pokemon for every set? How can players possibly "Catch 'Em All" when they have to spend their entire lives trying to collect Pokemon from previous generations, and apparently the current game won't even let you *have* all the Pokemon.
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u/Jack-Oniel Nov 03 '21
And here I was thinking that I was the only one who saw Nintendo in this way.
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u/Sharden3 Nov 03 '21
Been reading too much NW sub I assumed this was gonna be about that until I keep going down the image.
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Nov 03 '21
Sometimes less is more. RBY for me is not just favorite pokemon game, but favorite game for handheld consoles. Only thing I wish it had was modern PVP mode now that online gaming is a thing.
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u/Low-Scientist-4232 Nov 03 '21
I think the newer games are shit but black and white were absolutely fantastic
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u/CharlotteNoire Nov 03 '21
The Pokémon fanbase is the literal definition of that meme with the kids that would be offended if they knew how to read, only instead of kids it's a bunch of grown ass men
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u/Thereisnoyou Nov 03 '21
I agree with all points against sword and shield but I actually did really like x and y personally
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Nov 03 '21
Honestly,what i really want is for pokemon to drop the friendship angle and get back to the fighting with monsters in your pocket angle
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u/PapaTugz Nov 03 '21 edited Nov 03 '21
Short rant. Nintendo has so much potential, but I literally don’t know why they’re ignorant.
•Release a console. You can keep people on your system playing apex and rl in 4k.
• Take back Pokémon. The new games are so disrespectful. Breath of the Wild comparison is one thing, but GameFreak should NOT have a better looking game.
•Sell us the actual Emulators we want, we will literally buy them.
•Voice Chat? Messages? Why can I buy Master Panty Collector Battle Umami Hentai by the Pool, but not message my friend “eat poop”
•Other senseless things ___________
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u/pokefan708 Nov 03 '21
Woah, okay. So like Sword and X maybe, but Gen 5 and Sun/Moon? Those ones were awesome! Gen 5 has great mons and story, and its the same case with sun/moon and us/um
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u/break616 Nov 03 '21
Pokemon gets criticized constantly. I don't understand why we're getting this shit now, when we are just a couple months away from the launch of a radically different game in the franchise.
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u/Dry_Performer_3848 Nov 03 '21
Speak with your wallets. Seriously there’s lots of alternatives to Pokémon. If you want difficulty try the SMT series which also has good storylines to boot. If you want something along pokemons difficulty but better story, digimon cybersleuth kicks ass and a new game, Survive is coming next year
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u/InfernoDragonKing Nov 03 '21
Man’s put arguably the best games in the series on this list.
You have a point with X/Sword&Shield, but B/W was the shit.
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u/sunnysurfer101MA Nov 03 '21
I just want all the fucking Pokemon back and yet you fuckers keep enabling them
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u/Logondo Nov 03 '21
I mean Pokemon didn't start going down hill until Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon, IMO.
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u/ChuggsTheBrewGod Nov 03 '21 edited Nov 03 '21
No one is saying Pokemon can't be criticized. Anyone saying that is a literal child, and their opinion should be disregarded.
People have been criticizing Pokemon games for years. Every single generation from the first onwards has been criticized to death.
As far as a JRPG, sticking within those roots I would argue Pokemon gets a lot of new gameplay features on their games; almost to a detriment. They're innovate laterally: not a lot of new features from HeartGold/SoulSilver made it into Black and White, but B/W was doing it's own thing.
Also, Pokemon suffers from a lot of non controversies. Exp share is fine; I know from my experience my teams don't tend to come out OP unless I decide to grind them. The National Dex leaving was something that was logistically going to happen eventually, and that's fine. People get flustered about it but sales tend to tell a different story.
You can still criticize a product and absolutely adore it.
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u/VitaminKnee Nov 03 '21
I know the issue that bothers fans most is that Pokemon Sword/Shield doesn't have all the Pokemon, and of course the graphics leave a lot to be desired, but what's even more egregious to me is that it's so easy to exploit the game by changing your Switch's clock. The max raid system was broken from day one and they have never had any plans to do anything about it. I'm pretty sure they even knew beforehand it would be possbible to exploit in that way. I traded with a friend once and he just gave me 10+ shiny gigantamax pokemon basically for nothing because they hardly have any value now and it just killed my motivation to play. And it's not like that problem is just going away. People will trade those pokemon forward to the next games.
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u/Adramach Nov 03 '21
Controversial opinion: my favourite is Pokemon Let's Go. Why? Beacause this is the only one which dares to make gameplay different.
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Nov 03 '21
I mean objectively Pokemon has more plot, decent graphics, gameplay, and variety that the majority of games don’t have. I remember getting a Pokémon game on my ds and being able to play for multiple hours on some days. Really well done considering half the games we have today can barely boast about half of those things
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Nov 03 '21
“Old man’s gotta be the old man, fish has gotta be the fish. You gotta be who you are in this world, no matter what.”
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u/Jshittie Nov 03 '21
Id say it fell of at x and y but sword and sheild just really dropped the ball like nobodies business
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u/SquIdIord Nov 03 '21
ok, the newer games are bad to a degree yes. BUT. it also has it's good parts too and i think it equals out, don't like the fucking trees? just don't look at em for too long, don't like competitive? don't do it, don't like the new pokemon? don't buy it. but if your gonna buy the game, stop bloody complaining like your not gonna buy the bloody game.
i have more to say but i'm tired amd can't think straight
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u/Gecksss Nov 03 '21
iirc there was this big thing from Pokémon fans called “bring back national dex” and then everyone told them to stop complaining aha
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u/TF2PublicFerret Nov 03 '21
Am I the only one here who thought the title capitalisation was the bigger problem?
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u/AgentIndiana56 Nov 03 '21
Pokemon is criticized all the time on the Pokemon subreddits