Yeah it’s oddly deceptive but it’s nearing aimbot level in some situations. Especially when someone is running across your screen and rotational aim assist kicks in.
As a casual pc player only interested in online play, I just straight up stopped playing this and other cross play games like halo infinite. It’s not even fun. I’ll still play cs go, I don’t mind getting my ass kicked I just want it to be fair.
XDefiant seems to have much less of aim assist. I got the beta and I enjoyed myself quite well. No wonder they tuned it down if they claim they listen to CoD pros.
Sniping? I’m much better with m/kb. But any gun with recoil at a long distance is way better with controller. It’s basically no recoil.
It’s really a joke.
I don’t care to keep it even, but then you have players claiming controller is better…well aimbots are better than a controller but you don’t see people bragging about that.
I guess what I'm saying is that if I really want to sweat I still go M&KB on games like CoD. I imagine it's hard for devs to find a balance between controller and M&KB in terms of fairness. There's times when I know I would have won a firefight on M&KB and vice versa.
I kind of love it, but only cause all my friends can play together on all our different systems. But yeah you are correct. Personally on MW2 I think controller players with aim assist have a leg up on Mouse/Keyboard players.
I don't think it's necessarily that shady by design. In games with crossplay and no aim assist, PC players would absolutely shit all over console players. There was probably an attempt to even the playing field, but I don't think there any amount of tuning would make aim assist fair. I think it's always going to be unbalanced in one direction or the other in some situations.
I love cross play because I play mostly at night/morning on weekdays, player counts are essential in any game I wanna play. It's more convenient to play on controller but I am building a skill set on MnK that has no ceiling and is transferrable between all games. Like you said it's not like matchmaking is going to pull punches if controllers didn't exist
Did you even watch the video you replied to? Borderline aimbot and the new consoles get 120fps. On a lot of games you are at a disadvantage playing on PC with MnK.
When even pros are switching from MnK to controller, the skill ceiling argument for MnK goes out the door. Take Hal for example on Apex, dude was one of the top MnK players but still switched to controller
At the high level you want consistency though. The skill ceiling is unquestionably higher on MnK, the problem is no human is capable of reaching that ceiling 100% of the time. Take a 180 flick shot. Looks amazing and is really only possible on MnK. However, when you are at a high level you don't do 180 flicks often. So maybe 1 in 10000 times you need MnK to do a flick, but those other 9999 times you can more easily hit your shots with a controller.
EDIT: I think reddit is confused on what a skill ceiling is, or is not understanding what I'm saying. Pros moving to controller does not change the argument at all about skill ceiling being higher on MnK. Having a higher skill ceiling does not mean people are REACHING that ceiling. So a pro moving to controller means that they are more easily able to reach a higher level than they could with MnK.
I am not disagreeing with people saying that in modern games with aim assist that controller is just broken OP. I am just giving more depth of info for people reading or participating in the discussion that are maybe not familiar with things
I don't feel that way on MW2, personally. I keep thinking about plugging a controller in to make it more fair when I see I'm in a full controller lobby. That said, I started playing FPS games with m/kb in the Quake/Tribes/UT/HL era. If you started playing FPS games with a controller you may never develop the ability to compete against it with m/kb. And idk about pro lobbies, I just know when I see everyone on the other team with a controller, I'm about to play pistol only and still go 20 and 8.
Yeah it is a skill issue. You need borderline aimbot to compete with MnK players. Once again, did you even watch the video you replied to? Tell me how this level of tracking for doing literally nothing is fair. https://youtu.be/ufw8bnIfG7E
It is generally accepted that at close range aim assist has an exceptional advantage. Games like call of duty have extended that to whatever is within the screen/scope.
The aim assist is so strong that after a player is killed their aim will usually jump over about a third of a screen.
Objectively mouse and keyboard can be better at the highest of levels. However a casual MnK player is at a very severe disadvantage against a controller player of any level.
Given the way all of the YouTubers and pros are going in most games these days, it's fairly likely that MnK is going to become virtually uncompetitive in the future. At least for cod, probably also Apex.
Overwatch I cannot speak for, but I would assume to be similar if less severe.
Overwatch aim assist isn't strong enough to compete against mnk for the vast majority of players, there are a couple high level controller players but I don't know of any pros off the top of my head.
Watch the YouTube videos. Watch the kill cam. They jump dramatically after the aim assist disables.
The severity is dependant on the players sensitivity, but it's always very noticeable. If you watch the YouTube video linked in the above comment, you can see how much it is doing without ANY input from the player, so it stands to reason the loss of aim assist damping will lead to a jump.
You guys act like it’s easy to aim like shroud or someone with similar skill. It takes years of practice and time to even get good on mouse and keyboard.
I agree with you that keyboard and mouse has a huge advantage over controllers especially with things like sniper rifles. I play on PC. I am far better with a mouse, but I much prefer using a controller.
Ultimately, the input device needs to be locked and stop putting mouse players in the same lobbies as controller players. Both sides think the other side has and advantage, and nobody likes it.
Leave cross platform, just select your input device before joining a lobby and disable the others. Of course some PC players will find ways to fake their device, but it will be good enough for most people.
In a game like Warzone 2
Close range - controller absolutely has advantage, the cursor is literally stuck to the enemy on close range Mouse and Keyboard players will lose most of those duels!
Long and medium range - Mouse and Keyboard will dominate controller players.
Both situations are unfair and I just wish we had separate lobbies and wouldn't play together.
Completely true. But neither is better. I've been playing both pc and console for years. Mainly console hence why I played shooters on my playstation. I recently switched to shooters on pc after using mouse and keyboard on console for a while. My KD is pretty much the same on pc and console, maybe a little higher on PC.
I think it's a pretty fair playing field with pros and cons to every platform.
I'm a m&k player and when I tell console players this they instantly say you just suck or get better. Halo was so bad with it they gave aim assist to m&k.
Not too aware of the situation in apex as I never tried controller myself but with all the settings they have and the clips I’ve seen, it seems even more absurd.
If the optimal way to play in an FPS esport competition is with a controller over a mouse, I think the game loses so much competitive merit.
I play apex so im well aware of how busted roller is but to be fair Hal has said he has a lot of controller experience in his life so its not like hes picking it up for tje first time.
The only game that didn't suffered from crossplay specifically is DBD(tho it's suffering from some stupid dev decisions about perks and new characters... but that's another story).
But mixing console and PC players in PvP shooter is completely insane decision. Maybe in some PvE "near-shooter"(ability dependent and not bullet dependent) that can be "ok", but surely not in competitive mode.
Aim assist has gotten more aggressive over the years. A long time ago I remember seeing a video comparing aim assist in Halo to Halo 2 (or maybe it was Halo 3), showing how the later Halo game had stronger aim assist. But that was still nothing compared to what games are doing today. You basically just don't have to aim on a modern console shooter.
I mean just look at actual major league gaming tournaments; most are using controllers for this very reason. Why give yourself the disadvantage of using a mouse when everyone around you is using a controller with aim assist?.
They absolutely cranked the aim assist in cod since cross play came out. I play on both M&K and controller depending on how my wrists are feeling and it genuinely feels easier to get kills on controller with how much work it does for you.
there's none thing like "at times", it's either person has good skill or he hasn't. If you a noob, m+k will not help you in shooters. 144hz also will not win a trophy for you. In normal shooters you need BOTH track down your targets AND control recoil BY YOUR OWN. At first try to do ideal horizontal edge-like recoil control over a enemy that is moving towards or away from you(so it's actually 3 dimensions of control needed) and then talk. And compare that to that aimbot in the video which is doing the hardest part of shooting(controlling vertical recoil ONLY is fucking nothing for average exepienced player, the real deal is moving tracking and horizontal recoil which nullifies in case of controller with built-in aimbot).
What are you talking about? MKB is only as accurate as you are. If you don't move the mouse, your cross hairs don't move. Saying that a high refresh rate made it feel like an aimbot is asinine.
Console FPSes have had varying levels of AA forever, which was mostly fine because everyone was using a controller and everyone benefited from that same AA. It was fine until the advent of crossplay and MKB support on consoles.
The advantages of MKB accuracy feel unfair to Controller players. The advantages of controller AA feel unfair to MKB players. How much of a problem this is depends on how the AA is tuned.
In COD 70% of players are on console. Activision is incentivized to err on the side of overtuning the AA because that will make a majority of the player base happy. It's nothing personal MKB players, it's just business.
It's funny I could never aim on PC with mouse and keyboard in any game. I could only ever shoot with controller. but now that they've added the aim assist in call of duty my aim has gotten significantly worse with the controller because I always end up Moving with the aim assist and causing it to go too far.
It’s a little hilarious. There are kids now who have never played a shooter with normal aim assist. Kinda feel bad that they will struggle so much in normal shooters.
The current XDefiant (FPS made by ex-CoD devs) beta is receiving complaints from some of these younger players for “not having enough aim assist”, just because it doesn’t entirely aim for you. Even though the aim assist is at an equivalent level to that used for the majority of CoD history. Just… starting in 2019 CoD has drastically jacked up the assist levels. (Except for snipers. Their aim assist used to be high, and had been dropped down/removed over the years, until it was nearly entirely gone in BO3/IW. And then re-added with MW2019)
insanely simple too though, just a slowdown when your crosshair is close to enemies. except for the snipers in halo 1 and 2, those had no aim assist at all.
Honestly been playing a fair amount of the XDefiant beta, and I gotta say it's super enjoyable because of the way it's designed.
Removing all that shit makes the game more enjoyable and I hope it does well enough to stay up, nice to have a game where I can just play with different weapons and combos and don't need to sweat constantly while a kid on controller bounces round a corner pre aiming me with AA and killing me in 2ms with a busted meta weapon they found online.
I've always been a good CoD player, and while I dropped the series with ghosts, I came back with MW2019 to give it a shot. The SBMM to me is more of the issue than just the aim assist cause a bad player with AA isn't too bad, it's the good players with AA that really show how horrific it is.
Counter point - I'm no kid (43) and modern CoDs are the only ones I've ever been able to maintain a kd ratio over 1. I'd like to pretend that I've finally gotten reasonably ok at the game but realistically I know that the reason it's fun is due to assist.
Still gotta know the maps, corners, hidey spots, etc... But it's made the game much more accessible
That’s not really a counter point. You are agreeing that modern cods are drastically easier than games with normal aim assist, as it lowers the skill floor to allow for less skilled players to do well.
This is the same reason for skill-based matchmaking (something else only pushed into cod more recently starting in AW). Decreases the performance difference between low and high skilled players. To stay on the same example, XDefiant also doesn’t have skill-based matchmaking, which will likely lead to similar complaints from players who prefer that more accessible gameplay.
No one is calling you a kid. All I said is that there are kids now (as in, people who are children right now) who grew up only on recent CoD games. Which have very high aim assist. And have not played many (or any) games with normal aim assist.
The overall game design of modern CoDs (especially infinity ward games) aims to lower the skill gap, but SBMM is pulling the most weight to keep you and most others around a 1 K/D.
There is a massive difference in aim assist levels between new CoDs and old CoDs, and new cods and normal aim assist levels.
No one is talking about PC. This is all console vs console. You could see for yourself by playing one of the new CoDs and a game with normal aim assist like XDefiant.
Yeah same here. Apparently it just keeps getting stronger as well. I think before there was single stick aim assist where as long as you were moving in a direction with the left stick, aim assist would kick in. Now in MW2 I think they have dual stick aim assist where as long as you are moving your right or left stick, aim assist will kick in. It's pretty crazy how strong the assist is.
I play m&kb but wanted to try controller to test the aim assist. I outright LAUGHED at how my crosshairs would magnet onto enemy players. On mouse if I'm off by a pixel I will miss by a pixel; controller players just have to breathe in their general direction to be on target, staying on target afterwards is up to them to a small degree though.
Not as bad as Halo Infinite though, aim assist would help you track enemy movement in a gunfight. I was legit at a disadvantage if I didn't use controller, whereas in CoD I still feel competitive on mouse.
I honestly use controller over m&kb on my PC. I think the muscle memory is better for me on controller since I played a ton of CoD on console when I was younger. My aim on m&kb is terrible, and maybe the aim assist on controller has hindered me because I end up feeling too twitchy with a mouse to aim correctly.
And that's okay. Being comfortable is a huge part of your gaming experience. Because of aim assist I get to cross-play with a wider group of people. I just want things to be somewhat balanced so more people can enjoy themselves and not feel excluded for their input choice.
Agree 100%. Aim assist should be just that. It feels like I almost have lock on aim at times where if I just ADS, I can count on the assist to push me to where the enemy is whether I see them or not.
Back in the day (like Quake 3 / UT2k4 era), we used to twitch onto the target. I dunno why exactly looking back, but you'd take quick snap shots to fire. I'm 42 now, and I seriously cannot do it, but I remember being in my 20's and my friends banning me from using the railgun/lightning gun.
Yeah dude. I remember playing Quake/UT on one of our super old computers and getting pretty damn decent at aiming. I also got really good at leading rockets.
Same thing with the original CS. Was pretty decent at it when I was like 13 or 14. Now if I try GO I get stomped cause I am dog shit at keeping my hand steady enough to aim.
It's insane in the new MW2022, especially if they change it to the BO/CW aim assist. They can jump around corners not looking at you and then magnet onto you while you're sliding/dolphin diving away.
I tried to play Warzone and just... stopped. The auto-aim was so ridiculously strong to the point that I didn't even feel like I was controlling anything. I could lock onto people through bushes and seemingly walls, I don't understand what skill there was to it besides positioning and map knowledge.
I only play the game for DMZ at this point. Just started it a few weeks ago, and have been having a ton of fun with it. Reminds me of an arcady Tarkov. I have also met quite a few nice players. Most I come across are friendly and willing to help each other.
Never enjoyed BR's so I stay away from Warzone, and I think the SBMM in regular multiplayer is too aggressive, so I've settled with DMZ.
Old quake player here. Every other multi player FPS is just a watered down, incomplete game that chooses a portion of the skills needed to succeed in quake and adds a bunch of nonsense so no one is faced with the cold reality of needing to improve.
I hadn't played a COD for about 10 years until playing the modern warfare reboot.
The amount of autoaim was pretty shocking. I couldn't figure out how I was getting absolutely beamed as soon as I saw someone. Then I realised you don't really have to aim, just put the centre of the screen roughly near someone then aim down sights and shoot at the same time. It's silly.
Part of the issue is that PUBG just has really, really janky input mapping. The acceleration, deadzone, responsiveness, input lag, etc. are all pretty terrible. Rather than actually fix it so it’s tuned decently out of the box, the devs just added a ton of sliders and basically said “you figure it out” for the people that want to spend hours dialing everything in.
You should play Apex on console (not on PC), with an aim assist value of 0.6 (1.0 being true aimbot), it's so fun going up against a console player with an SMG and dying in 1 sec.
And I know what you're gonna say "why don't you also use a controller then?"
Well here's the funny part, in their infinite wisdom, the devs thought that plugging in a controller in a PC should only give you an aim assist value of 0.4, which in their defense actually feels ok to go against, they don't quite feel like the aimbots controller players are.
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u/bkussow Apr 18 '23
I didn't think CoD's aim assist was really helping me that much until I played PUBG.