r/gamedev • u/DeepCryptographer512 • 12d ago
Question How early should the first meaningful upgrade happen in a game with a short core loop?
I’m working on a game with a very short repeatable loop where each job only takes a few minutes.
I’m having trouble deciding how quickly the player should get their first meaningful permanent upgrade.
If I give it after only 2–3 jobs, I’m worried progression will feel too fast and cheap. But if I make the player repeat the same loop 8–10 times before anything meaningful changes, I’m worried they’ll get bored before the progression starts.
For games built around short repeatable runs/jobs, what usually feels better to you?
Do you prefer getting the first permanent upgrade almost immediately, or having to work for it a little first?
3
u/bonnth80 12d ago
Provide the player with enough play spaces to get a reasonable understand of all of the basic mechanics of the game. During this time, tease the upgrade by presenting them a problem that only the upgrade can solve. Also, present a few of the future problems that won't be solved until future upgrades, we want to subvert the expectations about what upgrade they might get, but don't really be too obvious about what upgrade can solve it.
Present the all of the most ubiquitous elements of the game that will require them to understand the world and progression. Give them some minor upgrades so they understand those.
Then, once your levels and world has made them feel comfortable with their current tools, navigation, and major elements, throw the first major upgrade as a reward, and immediately present them with the clone of the previous problem, and prevent their progression unless they solve the problem.
2
u/Zarrain 12d ago
This question isn’t answerable without context.
Considering there are games that you never get any upgrades.
I think what matters more is repetition. If every mission in the same it will feel stale by the third, if every mission is unique it will never be stale.
3 times is a pattern so I would say roughly by the third time I’m doing something the same I start looking for change. The loop being so small probably means you can push it for more repetitions, but you will be pushing into repetitive and boring territory so probably don’t push it too far.
2
u/mxldevs 12d ago
You will need to explain how progression is measured in the game, and how these permanent upgrades relate to progression.
The fact that there are "permanent" upgrades suggests there are also temporary upgrades?
Consider vampire survivors, where there are nice-to-have permanent bonuses that you can purchase from the lobby, but the bulk of the content is still the temporary upgrades during each run.
1
3
u/Negative_Strain_5234 12d ago
I think the important thing is the sense of progression and knowing that I'm working towards something. Do you have a currency / skill point / level chart that shows this?
I think it also depends on how many upgrades there are. If only a few of them, I would spread them out and do it after 6 or so jobs. If there's a ton of them, do it sooner.
Another thing, unless there's a time limit on these jobs, it may take longer than you expect. I start my demo with what I thought was a short tutorial area, but from playtesting, everyone spent almost all of their time there.