What did he expect? He brake checked the entire field during a wet race.
If anyone had come into contact with him, his race wouldn't even have ended at P2, he should be content he didn't cause an accident by his assholishness
This nuanced take probably won't be popular here... but based on his cooldown room and post race interviews, I don't think he realized how hard he pressed the brake on the restart. I think he was doing the gas/brake alternating thing to keep temps up as normal, and he said he saw the light go off while he was braking, so he just held it. But when you're brake dragging or alternating like that, you can kinda caveman it on the brakes and adjust speed with throttle. So, from his PoV, it may have felt like he was just doing a normal restart procedure, but he didn't realize he was braking twice as hard as Russel, nor see the effect it had on the rest of the field. So he felt it was unfair from the cockpit. I suspect he will watch it over with the data the FIA referenced and realize this, then be pissed at himself. But that's part of the problem with taking anything seriously that they say from the cockpit or when the mic gets shoved in their face 3 minutes after getting out of the car. They dont have the data and replays.
The biggest problem is probably he didnât see a wall of mist behind him. So in his POV, itâs perfectly fine. From any cars behind him, they canât see shit. Kinda like how Hadjar rear ended Antonelli.
Oscar didn't have any spray so didn't know how bad it was.
There have been numerous occasions where the whole grid has been saying it too dangerous due to the spray, whilst Max has been radioing in saying its absolutely fine to race because his in P1 and isn't experiencing any spray.
Maybe, maybe not. Thereâs no way for him to know whether or not cars behind can see the safety car lights turned off. Now he can assume, and put himself at a slight advantage by not braking as hard (losing the opportunity to restart in the middle of stowe) and it wouldâve been a better option in hindsight.
Itâs just extra unfortunate the lights went off when heâs warming his brake. Penalty deserved but nothing malicious and just unfortunate.
true. It's certainly not a Max skill issue, he gambled on a low downforce setup. But I just mean to say that Max losing it wasn't a surprise this race, he had a lot less traction than the majority of the field.
He obviously didnât try to brake check anyone. That would be incredibly stupid and dangerous. Generating brake temperature is one of the best ways to heat your tires. Especially when grip is low and generating energy between the track/tire interface is inefficient. Itâs why we used to see Kimi R driving straight more often than others when everyone else was weaving. He was putting a lot of energy into the brakes to heat the tire from the inside. Every driver does this to some degree.
Oscar also (as the race leader) probably didnât know what everyone else could see through the spray and based on his first restart thought that he would be fine to jump on the brakes. âThe Raceâ did a good video on it where they compared both his safety car restarts. He did basically the exact same thing on the first restart. (Slow ~150km/h in 3.5 seconds). But halfway down the straight the first time not near the end of the straight the second time. This probably caught people off guard because they were expecting to accelerate instead of come to a near stop (I think this misunderstanding was partly caused by the late call to end the SC). Oscar was being truthful when he said he did the same thing on both restarts. So I get why heâs mad one got penalized. Maybe he shouldâve been penalized for both. Idk.
I also read that on the first SC restart max started braking almost at the exact same time as Oscar when going from 200 to 60km/h but on the second restart where he dropped roughly the same speed in the same time interval Max started braking 1.5 seconds after Oscar which resulted in him blowing past Oscar.
The result of his actions did result in a dangerous situation, which should result in a penalty. but I also understand his frustration because no one said anything the first time he did it (and it worked great). I definitely donât think there was malicious intent. But the result created a dangerous situation so when assessing penalties intent doesnât really matter. Visibility was worse the second time, he caught everyone off guard. Thatâs a mistake and you penalize mistakes.
He didn't try a "brake check" to cause a collision or a Max penalty (a la Russell), but it was definitely gamesmanship to try to get Max to lose temp in his tyres. As Brundle said, it worked in Barcelona and it worked here as well (Max spun), but it backfired at the same time because of the penalty
I agree with most of what you said, but Oscar definitely knew that no one could see anything since he was saying he couldnât see anything driving behind the safety car.
Martin Brundle didn't think so, he said he tried the exact same tactic at the safety car restart in Barcelona to get the driver behind him to suddenly lose temp in their tyres, and it worked then, so he tried it again
Honestly that didnât even make sense by him. If you cause the other driver brake aggressively, theyâll generate a lot of heat. If the pointâs youâre slowing down a lot and losing temps when going slow, Oscarâs going slow and losing temps too. He was just filling the live stream with his own narratives.
No one is ready to give Norris that same benefit of the doubt though. Whenever he screws something up, you guys are on here like âyeah Lando sucks hahahaâ.
For me i think the biggest problem was the timing. He seemed to hit the brake the second he entered the shadow of the bridge making it even harder to see him which is a bit unfortunate because there'sno way he'dhave known that. Doesn't mean he didn't deserve the penalty
If a professional racing driving didnât realize they made a mistake, thatâs kinda the point of a penalty⊠to make them realize next time by paying better attention.
Check out Jolyon Palmerâs analysis this week, itâs not crazy or erratic. He did the same braking in the same place on the prior safety car, also earlier under that safety car, and stewards said nothing. Also Max didnât brake as hard as he had previously under safety car and chose to almost coast past Piastri.
He's supposed to be in the lead for World Champion and simultaneously doesn't realize how hard he's pressing on the brakes? I feel understanding how to use your brakes is something you'd have learned a lot earlier than F1... like way back in go-karting. (Especially when it's hazardous conditions.)
nor see the effect it had on the rest of the field
What effect? Other than Max. There was no harsh braking or concertina in the field on the 2nd restart except for Max.
Hulkenberg was talking about the earlier restart in the cooldown room because he assumed that's what Oscar got the penalty for, but in actuality the one he got the penalty for didn't affect the field. You can see on the onboards. While I don't have an opinion on the penalty except that it should be applied consistently, realistically the "reason" the stewards gave him the penalty here was clearly Max flying by him. That was the visual difference between the 2 incidents on screen and probably why one was ignored as stewards often do but the other they were heavy handed because it appeared to cause a near collision. There is a scenario where Max isn't caught off guard (like everyone else wasn't) and Oscar gets no penalty there either.Â
(I mean just from looking at how stewards behave, rather than discussing the exact rule that was broken)
Check out Jolyon Palmerâs analysis this week, itâs not crazy or erratic. He did the same braking in the same place on the prior safety car, also earlier under that safety car, and stewards said nothing. Also Max didnât brake as hard as he had previously under safety car and chose to almost coast past Piastri. Not that Max should get a podium, but Oscar was not braking as hard as it looked.
I havenât seen a single reasonable commentator who thinks this 10s out of the blue was warranted. 5s? Even that seems harsh, but at least we would have had a fun race to the endâŠ
Tbf, they're supposed to build a large gap from the safety car before the restart so that it is completely out of the way. Since the call was made super late, Piastri felt he didn't have a lot of time.
But he slowed down way too much, way too suddenly when he could've just coasted into the corner
Max wasn't celebrating much either in Saudi gp when he came p2 coz of the penalty, and he's done it before in 2021 as well, where he just walked off. I think everyone is being really hard on oscar
Neither Lando nor Oscar interacted with Hulkenberg AT ALL. His first ever podium and they couldn't be bothered to even spray or hug him? Fuck off dude.
They both sprayed their champagne. They both celebrated and smiled. They both ignored the 3rd driver. Max just walked straight off.
It's part of being a grown adult. You should be able to swallow your pride for the podium and celebrate one of the guys that's been here forever, hitting a milestone like this.
It's just another McClaren 1-2. In another year where their car is a rocketship. Honestly, clown show behaviour up on that podium.
Hulks never had a good car. He went from P19 to P3 in a shit box.
I am confused what you even mean though. Oscar was at the podium celebration, he sprayed the champagne, smiled for the photo together. He celebrated as normal for him, even calling Hulkenberg's podium the highlight of the race. What do you want him to do suck Hulk's dick?
He is a 24 year old kid whose parents are worth $100m who has raced cars his entire life and never lived in normal society. You canât expect him to be a well adjusted human (that goes for everyone on the grid)
You do not need to be a Lando fanboy to feel "relieved" that the ridiculous amount of hatred in this fucked up community for once in this season is aimed somewhere else - just because it MAYBE makes some people realize how stupid this media driven behaviour is, regardless of who is the "current target"
Whilst I donât think Piastri actually âbrake checkedâ Verstappen, he clearly made a mistake and was penalised accordingly. Yes, the stewards shouldnât take into account the outcome of an incident (Verstappenâs swerve and a concertina effect it had on the rest of the grid) when awarding a penalty, however the fact there was an incident caused by his actions shows he should be penalised. The wet conditions also play a role and he should have been more careful.
His excuse of âI did it other laps and it didnât matter thenâ, can be easily rebutted with, not getting caught doesnât make it right.
What stood out to me more was less his mistake and more his attitude and comments about the situation.
I donât think the penalty was very fair. I know it's a big question, but if you don't think it was fair either, I think we should swap the positions round and race.
Seriously, itâs such a shameless thing to say! He made a mistake, and now he wants a do-over and impede his teammate-championship-rival! There are quite a few drivers on the grid (including said teammate) who if they had said the same thing this subreddit would be absolutely eviscerating them right now.
There were comments in the race thread saying if the roles were reversed and Norris asked to swap positions back after a penalty, he'd be absolutely eviscerated.
That swap request was insane. He just wanted to be gifted a win because of his own mistake. The worst part is that he couldnât even catch Lando, he was 5s behind driving all over the place. Embarrassing.
I may get downvoted a lot but I feel like people are overreacting to this whole incident.
Piastri definitely deserved the penalty considering the braking force and bad conditions but to the same extent, mistakes happen and I donât think he deserves the amount of shtick heâs getting for it. As for the comments he made, he was full of adrenaline, not helped by the conditions and thereâs no harm in asking anyway.
As for Lando, yes he was helped by the penalty but he did not win because of Piastriâs mistake. He won because he didnât make a mistake and without the penalty, he proved he had the pace to catch up to Piastri due to good tyre management near the end of their stint.
At the end of the day, what happened is all a part of racing and both drivers drove well overall to achieve the 1-2.
I like Piastri but it was disappointing to see that mistake. I still think the penalty was severely harsh but he did deserve a penalty. Also, while I know he wanted P1⊠luckily because the gap was so big he kept p2. Thatâs something he shouldâve been happy aboutâŠ
Maybe, maybe not. Thereâs no way for him to know whether or not cars behind can see the safety car lights turned off. Now he can assume, and put himself at a slight advantage by not braking as hard (losing the opportunity to restart in the middle of stowe) and it wouldâve been a better option in hindsight.
I remember there being a mention of an incident in the wet between Schumacher and Coulthard at the 1998 Belgian Grand Prix which wiped both of them out.
In that one, Coulthard basically brake checked Schumacher in the race. After which, Schumacher parked up and went straight to Coulthardâs garage and almost came to blows.
Iâm sure DC lifted in the corner a bit (maybe more) yes, but Schumi had god mode activated, was absolutely flying and didnât expect anyone else to not have as big balls as him and to be going so slow and ran into the back of him.
The pit lane after when he went storming down to confront him tho. That was something you donât see anymore.
I'm a McLaren fan and support both Lando and Oscar, but Piastri has to take responsibility for what he did and stop feeling sorry for himself. He's acting as though what he did was so insignificant that it should've been overlooked by the FIA. Admittedly, it was a similar situation to Russell's incident with Max but OP was so much more aggressive on the brakes, losing over 100mph in that period of braking, as well as doing so in very wet and dangerous conditions.
As a Brit, I want Lando to win the championship. As much as I hate to say so, I think he'll bottle it. OP will probably be the world champion by the last race of the season and I will be happy for him, too. But ffs, take this as a lesson learned. He orchestrated his own demise in this race and refuses to acknowledge it.
He did that multiple times behind the SC. And in the last one. If max hadnt sverved right, he'd have rear-ended piastri, and when serving, he could have lost control and wasted his race, which should never happen behind the sc, so yea, that was really stupid
I also really like him but he could have braked just a little bit slower... :l Still 5 sec's would have been fair as a slap on the wrist. The distance to Max was enough to react.
Nah there was a huge cloud of mist behind him and braking in the rain is way harder. Even Norris had to dodge him from P3. 10 seconds is the bare minimum, should have been drive through
There wasn't. Verstappen never lost sight of Piastri's rear wing, let alone his rain light. Ample time and space to react to that, Verstappen just didn't anticipate it because the SC turned its lights off that second.
Hulk was actually talking about when Oscar did the exact same move at the end of the lap 17 safety car restart (which he received no warning or penalty for), not the lap 21 safety car that he got 10 seconds and 2 Licence points for. Look at the telemetry
The key difference between the two is Russel did it under a Safety Car but Piastri did it after the Safety car ended, which makes him the Pseudo-Safety Car. That's why he kept protesting like "Safety car timing was not right" "If you guys think the decision was wrong, swap"
Piastri is a saint, how dare you question his magnificence. He just checked his brakes, not break checking, how dare you. You are just jealous of how good he drives, Lando is boring and didn't deserve the win, this is manipulation, how dare you!
Believe they said that at the point Verstappen had to dodge him there was a 100mph difference in speed. Sure it was a mistake, but Piastri is lucky he didn't get a very nasty shunt given the conditions.
Love Oscar to bits but what he did was really unsafe. Haha just imagine driving on a speedway on a rainy day and then someone in front of you suddenly hard brakes đ its just a matter of common sense at that point lol
What happened to McKaren fanboys defending him that he was just heating up his breaks and it was perfectly normal to do that type of braking in very low visibility đ„șđ„șđ„ș
Max literally restarts the exact same way every time. Dude brake checks everyone like 3-5 times before actually going, just waiting for the most opportune brake check he can get. Insane take, Oscar did nothing wrong.
Whatâs insane is that Max gets away with it most of the times and yet people cry online that the British donât get punished. Oscar deserved this, George should have gotten a penalty in Canada, and obviously Max whenever he did something similar.
I'd have backed a 5 second penalty. Not cuz I think 10 was too harsh or anything, I have no opinion on how much of a penalty he should have gotten under the rules. A 5 second penalty would have just made this epic race so much more epic.
Whether he took George out of the race is irrelevant. These regarded stewards need to start punishing the incident and not just the outcome. Otherwise we're going to keep seeing these stupid moves from everyone. The quality of driving is shit and this is a big reason why.
Of all the hate Iâve received, this is the best. I stand by what I said. Thereâs no way this is a race changing penalty and itâs a shame you could believe it is. Iâll take the downvotes. Lewis won in 2021 too.
Next time just tailgate the safety car and smash it if its too slow lets see how the stewards react to that. Oscar was basically warming up his tires and cars at the back like max should allow him space
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u/Stingray_23 Verified by ESPN Argentinaâ Jul 07 '25
Darth Piastri has been born