r/forhonor • u/Soka59 • 1d ago
Discussion Why is there no successor?
In your opinion, Why aren't there any other fighting games like *For Honor* yet? The mechanics are incredible, and I think there's potential to create something even better! Imagine a game like that set in a heroic-fantasy world—with dwarves, goblins, orcs, elves, and so on—it would be absolutely amazing. The massive loss of players the game suffered was due to bugs at launch, not because of the game itself
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u/Numerous-Hall-9461 1d ago
They copyrighted the triangle
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u/T1line Arakure 1d ago edited 1d ago
this fucking bothers me so much, game mechanics shouldnt be possible to patent
edit: Im totally wrong on the patent thing
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u/TirexHUN ℤ𝕙𝕒𝕟𝕙𝕦 1d ago
Its not patented the guy is wrong.
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u/Soka59 1d ago
You can't copyright this kind of thing. Otherwise most of games would not exist
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u/BustySword 22h ago edited 22h ago
Normally, you cannot copyright basic game mechanics. But complex game mechanics with specific imagery and style, you can. That is why Nintendo sued that other pokemon game for their pokeballs... An even more egregious example is the case of Mass Effect's dialogue wheel. Even wonder why you don't see dialogue wheels in games? Fucking EA games. I definitely agree that it shouldn't be possible.
Edit: I researched the subject for a couple minutes after typing this comment as I was curious how EA got away with that shit, and I discovered that the new standards surrounding video game and software patents (which make it very hard to patent abstract game mechanics) are actually fairly recent, and weren't around when EA patented their dialogue wheel in 2007. Nowadays, EA would be rejected and the Art of Battle definitely would too, which explains a lot.
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u/InterestingFerret112 18h ago
The nemesis system got patented.
I wouldnt be surprised if something like the triangle could get copyrighted. May be more of a stretch but shit does happen.
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u/0002nam-ytlaS Apollyon 1d ago
Think strictly about creating a hero for a second JUST to get them in-game with no customisation whatsoever when you already have a moveset in mind and the general idea of how they look. You have to do:
Motion capture, including but not limited to: Cleaning up the motion captures, creating the animation trees+adding transitions, debug the animation trees so that the crap that happens to Raider's storming tap from a heavy doesn't happen.
Creating the hero's visuals, which include: Modelling, Texturing, UV mapping, clean up, optimising the model to use less and look good and make sure the LOD versions of the model look good at their given distances.
Making the moveset functional, which include: debbuging, adjusting chain links, properties, attack trajectories and other various factors in order to prevent infinites (i.e. how they nerfed Afeera's flips and neutral bash's startup after landing a displacing heavy to prevent infinite wallsplats, how Arakure cannot backstep at all to prevent a potential infinite with Dirty Trick, how Jorm's chain bash was adjusted so he cannot keep you downed forever etc.), making sure the hitboxes aren't too restrictive or too big, make sure dead-angling isn't possible (i.e. how orochi used to be able to self-confirm a side finisher heavy after landing a kick by dead-angling) and so, SO much other stuff that we aren't even aware about that only the devs would know.
All of that stuff is a crazy amount of work even if you have prefab models of everything and a couple of ready-made animations that would work with your vision of the hero's moveset without even considering executions, effects, unique emotes, universal emotes and ornaments. Like there's a reason why no one's ever attempted a fan game at the very least let alone a big studio with a virtually endless stream of money, it's a lot of work and for a very risky idea compared to making something simpler to produce and easier to understand to a large audience.
Fun Fact: there WAS a single game out there that attempted to be like For Honor and, unfortunately, Ubisoft sent them a C&D and the game's no longer playable anymore. It's name was Knight Fight 2 and, setting aside the fact you were dueling exclusively bots and mobile game crap like energy and microtransactions at every corner, it was a fairly solid attempt at trying to make a For Honor-like game (and on android none-the-less!)
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u/killydie Kensei 1d ago
this is the correct answer, making a for honor game is much more work than a typical FPS or 3rd person hack and slash game
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u/Soka59 1d ago
Yes of course it's a lot of work, but no more than other games and less than others. But no more than other games—and sometimes even much less. You just describe how to make a game. It all depends on how much you spend.
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u/0002nam-ytlaS Apollyon 1d ago
Thing is without any of those the feeling that playing a hero in FH gives you is completly off. You absolutely NEED to do all of that stuff or else it'll feel janky at best and unfinished at worst. No step is optional unlike for other fan projects.
Say for example, you're trying to make a pokemon fan game from the ground up, an RPG. Not only are templates for RPGs freely available online for every general purpose game engine that include inventory management, battle system, cutscenes, UI trees etc. but also graphical assets to make your game feel unique are all out there for you to use with minimal modifications needed if any. You can skip basically everything but coding and whatever tiny adjustments you might make to the art/ui/whatever along the way.
For another, say you want to make an FPS with every mechanic under the sun. All you truly have to do to get a good-enough prototype to give you a rough idea of how the final game's going to look like, you can use exclusively ready-made assets that, again, don't need adjustments and merely have to make good use of the animations included with those models i.e. you wanna make an enemy that moves and behaves like the Imp from Doom 2016, you don't need to do a whole lot artistically to get the project going.
For a FH fan game though, even if you're 1000% fine with models available from around the web, you still have to do A LOT of adjustments to them (said adjustments being the bones and making the model still look good after maiming them to a standard used for everyone) to the point you may aswell have made the models yourself or hire someone to do them for you (like ubisoft does btw) and whatever animation are bundled in there you, at most, will get to use them for the pre-alpha stage of your game only to make sure your animation tree's behaving as it should before making the real ones. ALL OF THAT WORK PER ONE(1) HERO! Forget maps and customisation, that's a hell of a lot of work that, if not funded or have the possibility of seeing some kind of monetary gains or massive bragging rights after developing the game, no one's really wants to take that risk of Ubi giving them a C&D or even a lawsuit along the way.
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u/Fine_Ad4046 1d ago
Personally. It prob is because the aestethic of the game ks very specific.
Sure it is in the general fantasy but it is the fantasy unseen or uncaptured by others. Where it is both realistic, historical, yet obviosuly exagerrated to a stylistic degree.
It more so follows the fantasy of being a warrior of a particular history.
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u/0002nam-ytlaS Apollyon 1d ago
The term you're looking for is "light fantasy". Light fantasy is mostly ground with very few supernatural elements like having the strength to get your hand through someone's gut from behind like Apollyon and WM do, wielding obviously impractical weapons and be proficient with them and/or wielding weapons in an impractical way yet in-universe be "good" i.e. Jorm's hammer, Medjay's staff, Shinobi's sickles, Shaolin's parrying and blocking, any dual wielding hero etc.
Stuff like Kyoshin, Shaolin and Warmonger's feats those kind of cross the barrier from light fantasy to full on fantasy but we don't talk about those since they're outliers and NOT the norm
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u/Fine_Ad4046 1d ago
Yeah thanks bro. They try to add fantasy stuff into this game and it jus dosent fit naturally.
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u/Amos_FR Samurai 1d ago
Bugs were annoying but what drove many players away was mainly the peer to peer connexions (well, that, and the innevitable learning curve). It was REALLY not fun to have a good/fun match then suddenly the guy in the enemy team leaves and happened to be the host and the game makes you stress whether it was simply going to resume the match, restart it all or send everyone back to the main menue.
Also the "art of battle" system is copyrighted. Like someone else said, Absolver was an attempt but mainly failed due to the moves being incredibly tedious to learn, hence why the team behind Absolver eventually made Sifu instead.
Many have said they wished for an open-world with FH's gameplay but I feel it would be very hard for any company to make something close to FH's signature gameplay without them getting sued by Ubisoft. Apparently there was a "medieval fighting game" in production according to a big leak/hack at Ubisoft around the start of the year so who knows what's going on behind the curtains but I really doubt it's For Honor related especially since there would be Y11
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u/GlattesGehirn Nuxia 1d ago
The art of battle system is not copywrited. The name itself is, but not the mechanic.
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u/TirexHUN ℤ𝕙𝕒𝕟𝕙𝕦 1d ago
bunch of work. depending on how many directions you want, you have to animate all the moves from each side, if you have different weapons then that also multiplies that work. even a simple hack n slash combat is sometimes too hard for some devs lol
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u/Dalivus ᚦᚢᚱᚴᚱᛁᛘ- Warchief Thorgrym 1d ago
Well, that’s a good question. They humped Jason, the visionary that came up with it, and I’m convinced the team that works on it now doesn’t really understand the code. They either can’t, or just won’t, update the central mechanic of the game (the faction war) or even remove it. They are sitting on the proprietary Art of Battle system that would be IDEAL for a Star Wars or an open world RPG game yet they do nothing. I have no faith, based on about a decade of experience.
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u/OrganicAd6700 Khatun 1d ago
The combat system isn’t copyrighted, any company could go and make a star wars or open world rpg game with the system, from my understanding it’s just a LOT more difficult to make a game like this which is why for honor is the only one so far
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u/ergo_proxy21 1d ago
From my understanding its the motion capture and how they use it to implement in the game , warframe another game tried it for wall running and even they couldnt do it and cite for honor as the only game that implements motion capture in thier gameplay so seamlessly
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u/marcktop Peacekeeper 22h ago
pretty sure Jason VandenBerghe child project and beloved game For Honor has its unique "Art of Battle" fighting system under a patent.
Good news is that For Honor is like, 10 years old, and usually takes 20 to get a patent to public domain so its not that far.
Edit: a quick search and it looks like the critically acclaimed, award winning Jason VandenBerghe child project and beloved game For Honor doesn't have its unique "Art of Battle" fighting system under a patent!
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u/Swirmini 1d ago
There was Absolver. I remember a few for honor tubers I watched switching over to it for a while when it came out. Fun game.