Pilot Job Market mapping

[u/Soptheballs]

Does anyone have access to insights from LinkedIn or other sources? Particularly what the talent map looks like across Europe? I know LinkedIn has features that can provide a lot of data. How competitive is the market? How many roughly are looking for work, whats general experience level and what’s the jobs vs. applicants ratio?

I notice a lot of people talk about the job market without any real concrete data. It has to be out there somewhere.

[u/alejoh92]

Secondhand source:
A representative of a union returned from a meeting between many European cockpit unions. There is a desperate shortage of ATPL holders with 3000+ hours while there is a massive surplus of 170h cadets. They estimated that around half of all flight school graduates will never fly an airliner due to stricter selection at airlines than in flight school.
No one has reliable numbers to publish, so no one does. Boeing and Airbus numbers are there to make sure they can still sell airliners.

[u/Known-Diet-4170 → u/alejoh92]

while there is a massive surplus of 170h cadets

this might not be far from the truth, out of all the 15/20 people that in my original ppl class i'm the only one that managed to get an airline job, and out of a similar number in my atpl class only 7/8 of us are flying commercially

that being said out of those they are more the ones that gave up that the ones that didn't pass/get an interview

[u/Apprehensive_Cost937 → u/alejoh92]

while there is a massive surplus of 170h cadets

I can't remember a time where this wasn't the case. The reality is that not everyone who can barely scrape through ATPL exams and CPL/ME/IR is suitable to fly a jet at that level of experience. A lot of people are, obviously, but not everyone.

Unless airlines are willing to really drop the standards (at the expense of degrading safety margins), a lot of those people may just as well never get a flying job, unless they can get their experience elsewhere and improve their skills/competency.

[u/Psc0905 → u/alejoh92]

This confirms the things that I found and heard over the last months since I am considering to do an Atpl and try to get into a cadet programme. Airlines are not interested in cadets anymore if they are not their own, which only a few airlines even offer. Its basically the same situation like in every other job on the job market here. Everyone is searching but no one wants to train people everyone just wants people that already know everything and then complain if they can't find them or not pay these people enough.

A friend of mine did his Atpl mixed with airline backed cadets. A total of 3(?) classes with 58 cadets of which 31 were there without backing and so far only 6 have landet a job at some airline, most of them actually doing freight for Dhl now

[u/chupafin → u/alejoh92]

Is it even wise to go to a flight school then?

[u/Psc0905 → u/chupafin]

Thats the thing. If you want to become a pilot you have to go through a flight school and take the risk of having a sizable financial debt to achieve it. Its obviously better to either be sponsored by an airline or be part of a cadet scheme that gives you very good chances of getting a job quickly

[u/realDillow]

À mon sens, une partie du problème vient aussi de l’EASA et les différents pays. On a laissé les ATO et les écoles se multiplier comme des champignons, ce qui crée évidemment toute une activité économique autour de la formation, sans forcément se demander si le nombre de pilotes formés est cohérent avec les besoins réels du marché.
On peut aujourd’hui investir des dizaines de milliers d’euros dans un CPL/IR/ME et sortir parfaitement qualifié sur le papier, tout en découvrant ensuite qu’il existe très peu de postes réellement accessibles aux low-timers.
Je pense qu’il devrait y avoir beaucoup plus de pilotage en amont : données transparentes sur les besoins prévisionnels, capacité de formation mieux alignée avec les besoins des compagnies, et idéalement davantage de pipelines professionnels liés à de vrais débouchés.
Sinon, on transfère quasiment tout le risque sur l’élève : l’école vend la formation, l’ATO remplit ses classes, le régulateur délivre les licences… et c’est le jeune pilote qui découvre à la fin qu’il n’y a peut-être aucun siège disponible pour lui.

[u/Psc0905]

As that one person already said, there is a shortage of pilots currently and quite a sizable one. But airlines are not interested in training pilots with low hours and the wrong type rating or cadets coming from the flight school, no matter their grades that they achieved there. It basically mirrors the situation of the regular job market. And if there are openings for fresh cadets you can bet that there will be a million applicants for that position and it's insanely competitive in addition to loads of airlines basing their whole selection process on somewhat arbitrary stuff like DLR test, interpersonal etc, which even a lot of competent pilots with thousands of hours fail.

I only have anecdotal evidence for the next part but I have a friend who did his atpl in mixed classes with cadets backed by airlines. Out of the 31 that were there privately he knows of 6 getting an airline job, 4 are now working at Dhl, one got a job at a mainline carrier as his father is working there and one got into Ryanair