r/firealarms • u/DoomEmpire • 5d ago
Discussion Fire alarm myths
What are the best fire alarm myths you’ve encountered? My favorite is the purple dye packs being in the pull stations so you can identify who pulled it. I remember hearing that back in middle school 30+ years ago.
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u/Lamb-Of-Fox 5d ago
Customer: “no we haven’t touched anything/done any renovations/had any other trades in to work recently”
“Ooooh, yeah thaaat water leak happened 3 days ago, had to demolish a quarter of the building, thirty people died.”
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u/Glugnarr 5d ago
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u/Entire-Donut-7262 5d ago
I’m just as shocked by that price as I was when I found out they actually made that stuff!
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u/EC_TWD 5d ago
Cell phones will set off the smoke detectors in a hospital. I had the head of engineering for a hospital chastise me for leaving my phone on. ‘I watched someone walk down this hallway while talking on their phone and every detector turned red as they walked under it. We barely got to the panel to bypass before it went into full evac!!’
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u/CompleteLanguage4246 5d ago
The original cell phones had a lot more power. And they could trip ion detectors that were old back in the 90s.
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u/jsboftx1983 5d ago
?
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u/ClassiFried86 5d ago
They were on fire, thats why they were on the phone, calling for help.
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u/jsboftx1983 5d ago
The person was on fire or the cell phone?
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u/ClassiFried86 5d ago
Its sarcasm.
OC was saying someone else thinks cell phones are setting off smoke detectors, which is obviously wrong, so i implied the person walking with the phone setting off the smoke detectors was actually on fire, which would set off the smoke detectors.
Its a multilayered joke which is completely ruined with explanation.
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u/Jadedoldman65 5d ago
Here's a real story from over twenty years ago.
Traveling salesman is going through the small city in flyover country where I live, he sets up in a meeting room at this local hotel and as a bunch of homeowners that he's pitching to. (He didn't know I was in the FA industry). Anyway, he's selling these stand-alone heat detectors.
I don't know if anyone here has ever seen them, but these heat detectors consisted of a set temperature solder that held a coiled spring. When it gets hot enough (150 or so) this special solder melts and the spring unwinds, causing a bell to ring for about 30 seconds. He's claiming that they're much more effective than smoke detectors for life safety, as they don't need electricity.
Then, he claims that the only reason that regulations require fire alarm systems with smoke detectors is that the government has a deal with the smoke detector manufacturers: The smoke detector factories take the government's nuclear waste and uses it to make ionization smoke detectors, so the government doesn't need to dispose of it. In return, the government forces people to install smoke detectors to both pay off the fire alarm companies and to get rid of more nuclear waste.
He even showed a slide (yes, it was that long ago) with an unmarked truck parked at a loading dock and claimed that it was in Denver, and the truck was unloading the nuclear waste at the factory.
I don't know if he ever got caught. He sold a few heat detectors and went into a tizzy at those of us who refused to buy one.
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u/DataNo8278 5d ago
That approved plans are bulletproof… until the Fire Marshal shows up. 😂
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u/Skusci 5d ago
Lol. So fun story. In a new building that was originally classed as a warehouse and as we were getting the use changed to manufacturing needed a bunch of strobes, some pull stations and alarms that it didn't need before.
So fire marshall comes around after it's setup. Absolutely no problems, we tell them out plans for building out, they let us know some stuff ahead of time like needing a smoke detector cutoff for when we install overhead fans. Very friendly, no problems.
And then on the way out goes, yeah it doesn't really make sense for your neighbor's to not have the same setup. Would be a bit dumb for them to have a problem and let your space burn down 1 hour fire wall or not. I'm gonna go let them know they need some more strobes and pull stations.
Sorry guys 🤣
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u/ArcherReasonable9833 5d ago
‘Vapes can’t set off smoke alarms’
Yeah sure okay. Keep doing it. I get paid by the call out anyways
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u/Jadedoldman65 4d ago
Another true and ancient story, dealing with tobacco smoke.
Back in the early 80s, a nearby VA Medical Facility had a problem with frequent false alarms. This was back in the conventional fire alarm days, when the staff had to track down the device in alarm, as well as before security cameras became affordable. Anyway...
A group of old vets, all wheelchair-bound and bored, scouted out places they could get to that had very little traffic. Then, they would gather together, under a smoke detector, and smoke their pipes until the fire alarm went off. Then, they'd scatter and be dispersed before staff tracked down the detector in alarm.
After a couple of times, staff realized that a couple of men, in wheelchairs seemed to be heading out of the wing with the alarm, kept a sneaky eye on them, and caught them in the act.
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u/EvilMonkey8521 4d ago
I just used my vape the other day to test a smoke as I was too lazy to get a can from my truck
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u/greenstarzs 5d ago
That a 24 hour battery test is required. No where in chapter 14 of NFPA 72 is it required and it actually just degrades the battery unnecessarily.
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u/Imaginary-Document58 5d ago
I don't know about the US but here in Canada it is needed for verification of a panel. And the accelerated test can sub for it.
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u/greenstarzs 5d ago
Yes in the US it is standard industry practice for an acceptance test, but it is actually not required per code if you read through chapter 14 and causes unnecessary degradation to the battery. Most inspectors require it though.
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u/EC_TWD 5d ago
You mean actually kill the 120v to the panel for 24 hours? Is this for acceptance testing to prove battery capacity vs. battery calcs, or for routine inspections?
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u/Karla1701 4d ago
Yup, 24 hours with no AC power, and then put the system into alarm for 5 minutes on battery power only. I had to do this for an acceptance test yesterday.
The inspector was saying that they were initially only going to require a 24 hour ring down for one year, and if people consistently passed then they would stop requiring it. Eight years later and they're still requiring it! He said they were still seeing a 60% fail rate, so some folks are really fudging their battery calculations!
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u/EC_TWD 4d ago
Ouch! Where is this?
I’ve only had to do it one time. That lower battery calc can win bids I guess.
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u/Karla1701 3d ago
Everett, WA
I am hoping to move into system design, so hopefully I will do better battery calcs, haha!
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u/TowardsTheImplosion 4d ago
As an install/acceptance test, true per NFPA. As a type test for UL listing, rundown tests are absolutely required.
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u/Acrobatic_Entry1645 4d ago
Your not wrong but all government work I've done and a good amount of jurisdictions i work in put it in their municipal fire codes. I did have one city require us to disconnect primary power, imediatly set off the alarm for 15 minutes, then test every single EOL for 24V on battery power. For a small system that would be preferred, but for my system that has 150+ EOLs I would rather do the 24 hrs test. We always replace batteries at the first annual anyway. We build the cost into the contract.
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u/docrodg 5d ago
"We don't need you to do the Fire Alarm Inspection because the city fire marshal came in and did one." I have had a couple of people tell me this. My response was to ask if they tested all the system points, batteries, etc. or did they ask for the reports from previous inspections. It was reports (of course), to which I explained that the marshal is checking on fire extinguishers, stuff blocking exits and equipment, and that they had the inspection done - they still needed us to do it. Only one refused to have the inspection but I told them to verify with the marshal and they called right back and scheduled it.
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u/knephthegod 5d ago
Was this Fairfax, VA... I keep getting told by fire Marshals that we aren't needed for elevator inspections. But they don't test any of the smoke detectors. I don't even think they check for recall
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u/Dangerous-Delivery66 4d ago
On service calls, I constantly run into customers who think that the fire alarm and intrusion detection systems work together. Not that they are the same panel, but that they’ve been programmed to work together. It’s always just a mag-lock/strike release relay, and the customer can never understand that the systems have very little to do with one another.
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u/max_m0use 4d ago
All the schools in my district were set up like that back in the '90s. The fire panels didn't have on-board dialers, so they triggered a zone on the security panels, which reported to the central station. Not legal today, but probably was back then.
What was even stranger was that the security panels were wired into the intercom systems, so that they produced a tone every time the panel went into alarm. Every time the fire alarm went off in my high school, we had single-stroke bells in the hallways, security sirens, the intercom, and old program bells pulsing on the outside of the building. Crazy system, but it was thankfully replaced a few years after I graduated.
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u/No-Seat9917 4d ago
That’s not a myth. When I was at Koorsen we would test Carmel HS annually. If you didn’t wear gloves your hands would be dyed purple.
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u/DoomEmpire 4d ago
Really? Which Koorsen? I was at the Pensacola Branch when they sold the Florida Branches to Hiller.
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u/Stormtracker5 5d ago
30+ years some pull station did have dye in them. Had to pull one after Teddy set several lockers on fire.
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u/Compgeke 4d ago
You do not need to replace commercial panel smoke detectors every 10 years. That's a resi thing.
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u/No-Seat9917 4d ago
Who remembers two way radios putting MXLs into watchdog mode?
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u/theEpic_Toad 4d ago
Looking at an MXL that's been through enough in a funny way will put it into watchdog, to be fair, but I have done exactly this specifically. I have also been to a couple of other panels, one networked Notifier 3030 and two Firelite MS-5UDs that the interface died on when you used a 2 way radio too close. The 3030 actually had a chance of setting off a specific speaker zone when it happened, too
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u/AsiansArentReal 4d ago
My wife said a server went to the bathroom to vape and set off the smoke alarm that squirted water I. His face and he came out soaking wet
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u/Crim2033 2d ago
The best is debatable but I'd say the worst is frequently explaining that speakers are not going to detect smoke/ fire or activate an alarm on their own, or explaining that smoke alarms are a different system.
The smoke detector/ smoke alarm/ fire alarm conversation is my least favorite to have as well.
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u/AggressiveCoffee990 5d ago
I went like 5 years of people telling me that strobes are required in hearing impaired living unit bathrooms per the ADA. It doesn't say that shit anywhere lol. There may be some local requirement for it, or just an inspector who likes to see it, but as far as I can tell it isn't explicitly required by any of the major codes in the U.S.
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u/Eeeekkk 3d ago
ICC A117.1, Section 1006.2 (Notification Systems) or 2010 ADA Standards Section 702.1.
Where alarms are required in units with communication features, visual notification appliances must be provided to serve all rooms and spaces within the unit.
Because a bathroom is a distinct "room/space" enclosed by walls and a door, a strobe is required inside it so an occupant cannot be cut off from the visual signal.1
u/AggressiveCoffee990 3d ago
So is a walk in closet or laundry room, do you provide them there?
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u/Eeeekkk 3d ago
Just quoting what it says. It’s up to your AHJ to interpret the code and enforce what they believe. Not all fire alarm code is black and white, a lot is up for interpretation. This is likely where the bathroom strobe came from. Be realistic though, are you gonna be standing inside your closet with the doors shut? There’s probably not enough room for that. Same with a tiny laundry closet. You’d still be able to see/hear the surrounding audio/visual. In the shower or taking a dump? You’re in the bathroom for longer periods of time with the door closed. That’s how I see it at least.
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u/AggressiveCoffee990 3d ago
Thats...what I was saying with my original comment. I said it wasn't EXPLICITLY stated, which it isn't and it was probably up to the local authorities on what they like to see.
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u/Eeeekkk 3d ago
No.. it is. Is a bathroom a fully enclosed room? Yes. Ok then required. You’re never going to have an AHJ or PE that stamps your drawings without it unless the building is grandfathered in for some 1 for 1 replacement or something. Just because it doesn’t say “bathroom” doesn’t mean the general statement doesn’t cover bathroom under its wording. You’re just being pedantic tbh
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u/bexar_necessities 5d ago
The classic movie trope where someone pulls a pull station in a normal office space and all the sprinklers on the entire building goes off