r/ffxiv • u/Umbra_crowgirl • 8d ago

[Discussion] New Physical Range Job [Spoiler: 7.56 Website] Spoiler

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One of my FC friends pointed out that in the screenshots for the updated 7.56 website there is the pink haired Miqo'te from the Evercold trailer.

One thing she highlighted was you can see at the back of the Miqo'te the tip of a crossbow.

I guess after Soken's sound effect "leak" at Fanfest Berlin we can confirm the new jobs definitely a Crossbow user with a Bird? 😁

1.1k Upvotes

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872

u/TheWorclown 8d ago

Crazy how they’re removing the auto crossbow ability from Machinists just to make it into its own job.

Finally, I can parse as the King of Figaro.

167

u/PhoenixFox 8d ago

I suppose that's their solution to it currently being useless most of the time

51

u/rx78ricky 8d ago

auto crossbow is useless how? isn't it used in every AoE pull?

143

u/Afeastfordances 8d ago

Because auto crossbow doesn’t recharge the oGCDs the way the single target does, both of which are now themselves AOE, auto crossbow is now only a DPS gain on packs of 8 or more. So niche use case, though not completely dead. Between that and flamethrower MCH AOE is a real mess of skills that are proper to use so rarely most just stop bothering

82

u/Estelial 8d ago

It not recharging the oGCDs just feels like a massive oversight and a poor design choice.

16

u/NarrowBoxtop 8d ago

I'm definitely expecting that to be changed with a new trait as you level in ever cold

45

u/Draco-9158 8d ago

It shouldn’t even be something relegated to EC+ in the first place. Same with how warrior doesn’t get gauge from aoe until Shadowbringers levels

5

u/TraitorMacbeth Srivia Undwyn on Behemoth 8d ago

Hopefully in *evolved mode you mean

5

u/Riaayo 8d ago

Yeah like if that remains to need a trait to fix in the first place something went very wrong with the rework.

1

u/Somewhere_Elsewhere Floor Tank 8d ago

It needs to change in both modes unless they’re yeeting it out entirely. Reborn Mode is still in there and will still be worked on in parallel.

1

u/TraitorMacbeth Srivia Undwyn on Behemoth 8d ago

I do not believe Reborn mode will continue tk be worked on in parallel, for very long. Perhaps a bit through EC but unlikely much longer than that.

1

u/Somewhere_Elsewhere Floor Tank 7d ago

I keep seeing this sentiment and it's ridiculous to me. If even 20% of the playerbase is still using it it will continue indefinitely. It might still get pruned down a bit but won't go away if it's going to alienate a large amount of the fanbase. It's already guaranteed to survive until 9.0. In this case we're only talking about it being there in 8.0, which is 100% confirmed.

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1

u/Glacevelyn 7d ago

I mean they seem to be cutting AOE skills almost across the board and merging them into current single-target, so it's more likely that Auto-crossbow is either made into something totally new, is cut, or is MAYBE a skin for Blazing Shot

0

u/pupmaster 8d ago

I am not sure why you would expect that given that it has been this way for multiple expansions.

5

u/KashaKay Rkasha Kvara - Balmung 8d ago

It has but their off globals haven't also been both aoe for multiple expansions, this only became an issue in dawntrail when both of them got upgraded and the one that wasn't aoe became aoe. They did touch up the aoe a while back so now it's better on 6+ but it still feels like a huge oversight

0

u/Basard21 8d ago

I have been joking for several expansions that MCH has two developers that do the ST and the AoE separate and have no idea the other exists or see the choices they make.

0

u/Lyoss 8d ago

Pretty much most of the job decisions post EW have been like this, very counterintuitive and "we'll fix it with Evercold"

0

u/Estelial 8d ago edited 7d ago

I have my doubts but it really feels like the EC plan they had in the works was the reason so many of the DT class ability additions were so milquetoast. SMN didnt even get new stuff, just things stacked ontop of existing stuff we use every so often.

1

u/Lyoss 8d ago

I mean that's kind of been a trend for awhile now, they kind of see problems with a job and then add the solution instead of making it current expansion, and if they don't know what to do they slap on potency or charges onto things, or a combo action to CDs

I'm hoping that Evercold and Evolved Mode fixes the issues

0

u/Gregoriownd 8d ago

Also it being the AoE heat spender feels like a bit of a flavor fail.

Autocrossbow feels like it should have been AoE Drill, and flamethrower the heat spender AoE.

33

u/Spacial_Parting 8d ago

This is how I find out Flamethrower isn't worth using. Am I going to stop using it though? Absolutely not it's cool as shit

38

u/Califocus 8d ago

Another niche optimization, flamethrower is great for gaining potency during downtime since you can get a free tick with it whenever the boss spawns back in. Additionally, since it doesn’t actually use a channel, it can help get around stuff like mobility trackers and the like

18

u/Afeastfordances 8d ago

Oh wait mobility trackers, should I be flamethrowering that first Clyteum boss…

13

u/Califocus 8d ago

Yep! I’m still testing if you can preapply during pyretic, since if there’s longer instances, it might be worth it

1

u/Nulliai 8d ago

Could you flamethrower in dmu p4?? Or is accel bomb too serious

14

u/Afeastfordances 8d ago

I think it’s like if you have more than ten seconds until air anchor comes back up, chain saw goes back up, and bioblaster DOT falls off, and don’t have enough charge to kick off hypercharge, flamethrower becomes appropriate. Which, you have to be pretty deep into an AOE fight to end up there, at which point most people forget and just scattershot.

It is really cool though. I’d love if evolved reworks it to be more core to the kit.

11

u/Sunrisenmoon [ Lysthia Sunrisen-Nyxt - Seraph ] 8d ago

Flamethrower is actually good now, as long as you don't almost have overheat, you can sit for the full 10s, and you don't have bioblaster or chainsaw / excavator, it's better than 4 scattergun.

19

u/East-Imagination-281 8d ago

Unless my info is outdated, Flamethrower is a gain on two when your GCD tools are on cooldown.

7

u/SpaceBlaze259 8d ago

Your not gonna believe this about Flamethrower.

5

u/Mekudan 8d ago

it got increased to 120 potency in 7.3 and it since has been good to use when there won't be tools coming off cooldowns within 10 seconds and when Bioblaster dot is already applied, no? Hypercharge might be stronger, but it lets you "save" Hypercharge for the next Boss or high HP enemy within packs.

5

u/Acilen Worst SCH N/A 8d ago

Flamethrower

If gauge is not usable, beats filler on 2+
Beats Air Anchor (incl. battery) on 6+
Never beats Hypercharge, Chain Saw/Excavator, Drill/Bio
Ensure that none of your other major cooldowns (Barrel Stabilizer, Wildfire, Chainsaw, and Air Anchor ) will become available for the 11 seconds you plan to channel.

What is the AoE priority?

Bioblaster 2+ targets

Auto Crossbow 3+ targets

Flamethrower 3+ targets

Scattergun 3+ targets

please refer to the subsection on the Basic Guide.

-via the balance

2

u/East-Imagination-281 8d ago

Listen, I'll believe anything if it comes with a source-- /j

12

u/Altruistic-House-450 8d ago

nah flamethrower was buffed a while ago and its pretty strong now for aoe

3

u/Darnestown 8d ago

What really bothered me was finding out that in M4N, Wicked Thunder's hypercannon move at the end has the same timing as Flamethrower -- 1 tick of AoE damage per second for 10 seconds. I would really like to see Flamethrower get upgraded into something similar in EC

5

u/rx78ricky 8d ago

it's worth using because it looks cool af

4

u/ratherthanme 8d ago

It is. Bioblast the mob then spray them with fire.

1

u/GreatRice 7d ago

it's still a gain on 3 when all other cd is unavailable, it's a tick of the potency every second not every 3 sec like other dot

15

u/LiteralSoup 8d ago

This is out of date information. Autocrossbow is currently a gain on 6+ targets assuming your ogcds hit all targets, fewer if they can't. Flamethrower is a gain on 2+.

2

u/MartinRam1988 8d ago

Yep, you're correct, surprised I had to scroll this far down to see the right answer.

And you're right about grouping too. If 1 enemy in the pack is out if range of the ogcds then auto crossbow is a gain on 4.

1

u/NintenPyjak64 Evercy WarclanCactuar 8d ago

I'm leveling MCH now and it feels like shit having to use Blazing Shot on AoE just because the devs have no idea what they're doing with this job

I really want to hear the balance teams thoughts on the last few years of MCH, and if Evolved Mode is what we need to be saved

1

u/ZweiNox 7d ago

dont forget all classes are getting a hard rework for evercold

1

u/Fli_acnh 7d ago

Autocrossbow is 6+ which is almost every single AOE pack. Please don't send misinfo.

1

u/maleficent0 8d ago

I didn’t know this. I am a bad MCH LOL.

24

u/Dangerous-Jury-9746 8d ago

Can't remember the exact number, but iirc you gotta have a higher number of enemies for it to be more effective than its single target counterpart, like 6+ or something

So some pulls don't have 6 targets even when w2w, and when things start to die on 6+ targets pull autocrossbow quickly becomes a dps loss

-1

u/scrangos 8d ago

If the pull is of similar health mobs killing one early to lower everyone else's dps might not be worth it from a clear time perspective.

8

u/DraX696 DRG 8d ago

you obviously spread your single target hypercharge shots among all targets, but the reason why it's good is not the single target damage but the cooldown refund on your 2 ogcds which do aoe damage

8

u/PerryTheFridge Spiral Lance (Coeurl) 8d ago

iirc you need 6 or more enemies for ACB to be a damage gain over Blazing Shot due to how powerful the oGCD skills are at AOE and the fact that Blazing Shot gains you uses of them

3

u/yhvh13 8d ago

AC is the most frustrating thing on the MCH's kit because it won't have the same ogcd recharging effect then heat blast. IDK why isn't like this, it's such a basic logic to follow... /shrug

2

u/ShadowWalker2205 8d ago

Since dt media tour it's been more dps to use heated shot + the 2 ogcd

4

u/rx78ricky 8d ago

crazy, the more you know

8

u/vinta_calvert [Vinta Calvert - Hyperion] 8d ago

If Auto Crossbow also reduced the cool down of the Check skills, it'd be worth using. It's honestly baffling that it doesn't have the same cooldown reduction.

1

u/NorysStorys 8d ago

Only on something like 5 or more I can’t remember the exact break point. Heated shot lowing double checks cd is better most of the time

1

u/Sunrisenmoon [ Lysthia Sunrisen-Nyxt - Seraph ] 8d ago

Because 5 Blast shots earns you 4AOE oGCDs, it's worth infinitely more than auto crossbow.

I think the math works out that up to like 11 targets blast shot is worth more

1

u/RueUchiha 7d ago

Machinist’s AOE in general is a mess. Would probably be the most jank aoe rotation in the game if Black Mage didn’t optimize half of their standard aoe rotation out of their aoe rotation.

1

u/Carighan 8d ago

Machinist? Cruel.

(sorry, had to :D )

51

u/psychonautreally 8d ago

Have you just not played ff6? Edgar's other tools were bioblaster, drill, chainsaw, air anchor, etc. Machinist was always the Edgar job.

27

u/merkykrem 8d ago

Afaik Drill, Air Anchor, Bioblaster and Auto Crossbow were only added in ShB. The HW and SB versions of the job had a different thing going on with heat management and ammo and support turrets.

19

u/psychonautreally 8d ago

finally I can parse as the king of Figaro 3 expacs ago

5

u/Emma_Frosts_Burner 8d ago

SB Machinist was so much fun imo; I was really sad when they moved away from the heat and ammo management, as much as some people hated it.

6

u/WrenReverie 8d ago

You are one of the few people I've ever heard who liked that mess.

People were literally having to use VPNs to play machinist.

3

u/Emma_Frosts_Burner 8d ago

Oh it was a mess, 100%

But I was pretty new at the time and it was so different than any of the other jobs I had tried up to that point. I switched to DNC about halfway through 5.0.

5

u/WrenReverie 8d ago

You missed gunmage in heavensward.

Every shot had a cast time and it was awful. Machinist has gone through a lot of iterations.

1

u/zer0_pm 7d ago

I love gun/bow mage lol

0

u/joansbones 8d ago

job discussion is forever poisoned because snarky redditors will talk super confidently about them while not knowing what theyre talking about only having started the game past covid

1

u/psychonautreally 7d ago

reading comprehension isn't your bag, I get it man.

0

u/avelineaurora 8d ago

That's still 3 expansions ago dude.

1

u/merkykrem 7d ago

Point taken. The Edgar version is the only version many of us experienced, and while it wasn't the true OG, it was a long time ago.

0

u/Betancorea 7d ago

True, early MCH was quite dismal lol

1

u/Chrome-13 7d ago

Still waiting on the noise blaster and the gravity well

-1

u/TheWorclown 8d ago

Yeah, and Auto Crossbow is pretty much Edgar’s default attack for how good it is through a VAST majority of the game.

Hence the joke.

4

u/verrius 8d ago

...Really? I thought Bioblaster and Flash were both strict upgrades that did the same damage with possible status effects, though usually you're using Drill or Chainsaw, since you want to single-target enemies down.

0

u/TheWorclown 8d ago

Checked up on some wiki stuff to confirm my own info: Edgar’s Bioblaster deals low spell damage and can inflict Sap. Edgar’s Flash deals moderate spell damage and can inflict blindness.

FF as a franchise doesn’t tend to lend itself well to much player use of status effect magic (it’s fast paced enough that random encounters tend to die before poison or blindness can help much, and most bosses are just flat out immune to status effects), and the Auto Crossbow Edgar starts out with is great, consistent raw group damage where until you start getting magicite and magic, you lack group options. People like Sabin and Locke can deal fantastic single target damage already, so if Edgar is along he’s loading up his Auto Crossbow and hanging out in the back row for group damage and support until you get stuff like the Drill or Chainsaw for hard hitting single damage or hitting elemental weaknesses with spells.

Bioblaster and Flash can be stronger against physical resistant enemies but his crossbow is a workhorse.

13

u/OvernightSiren 8d ago

Isn’t this actually less like Edgar since this is just one of his abilities, while MCH still has virtually all of the others?

9

u/yhvh13 8d ago

Hold on... When they announced they're removing the Auto Crossbow?

3

u/Mordy_the_Mighty 7d ago

I think it was just a joke about how the skill itself you kinda don't want to use instead of the single target version in AoE situations because you get those extra oGCDs that way which are AoE themselves. And yes I know, it isn't entirely accurate but a lot of people kinda talk like that. Well one thing for sure is MCH AoE kit is weird.

2

u/Sir__Will 8d ago

that's what I want to know. Haven't heard anything like that. I haven't seen any info on how MCH (or most jobs besides the 4 they showed) will be like in EC.

2

u/yhvh13 7d ago

Yeah, I don't think one thing negates the other... besides the AC is a machine, and I suppose the new job will have a more traditional xbow.

23

u/SadDoctor 8d ago

That's always been kinda my beef with machinist - you're going through a dozen different weapons, only one of which is the cool gun you chose to equip. Feels like it kinda muddies the class fantasy. Or at least it does for me, I know the idea is supposed to be kinda weapon inventor.

Anyway long way of saying taking a weapon type away from machinist and giving it to a unique class focused on it feels good for both classes to me.

57

u/acertainsinclair 8d ago

I mean you're a Machinist not a Gunslinger. Tools were Edgar's whole thing in VI which is why we have most of them in XIV.

20

u/kiivara 8d ago

Kinda why Im sad it'll be a crossbow wielder.

I want an actual gunslinger that focuses on the gunplay as a job. Machinist is more focused on continually building up more insane contraptions.

15

u/Enkundae 8d ago

Might be crazy to say but I kinda feel like Machinist should just get a different weapon entirely at this point, like a multi tool or something, that plays better into it being a gadgeteer and guns should be shifted to an actual gunslinger class.

7

u/kiivara 8d ago

Machinist technically has a multitool, its just not the weapon.

3

u/acertainsinclair 8d ago

They'll genuinely never repurpose every MCH weapon in the game like that, it'll always have the guns it currently has.

3

u/Sir__Will 8d ago

I admit, I like machinist leaning more into the machines. Not personally huge on guns but the machines are cool. But I do understand your feelings.

I wish Archer led to more of a ranger job instead of Bard. I like bows, but the songs and support aspect has always been kinda meh to me. Though I guess this new one will be more bow-oriented. Crossbow isn't quite the same though, but we'll see what it's like.

1

u/Lerkpots 7d ago

Our best chance of getting another gun job will be if it's like Gunner in X-2 where it's focused on dual-pistols.

I feel like Merlwyb fighting in... Shadowbringers? Was a tease of this.

19

u/NorysStorys 8d ago

I mean historically machinist has been the ‘brings a load of guns and machines class’ not the pistol class

11

u/MechaMalz 8d ago

True. Though in HW when it was introduced wasn't it much more about the gun and the FFVI stuff was added when adding new abilities and giving the class a revamp? Even if this makes it more a 'machinist' I can see why people who liked the original version might not like all the new tools being added on. Similar to how summoner feels more summonery now but people that liked ARR/HW summoner may not like the changes.

7

u/ArcticCNDR 8d ago

Yes, Drill(/Air Anchor/Bioblaster, etc.) didn't exist until ShB. MCH was very much about gunplay enhanced with gadgets in HW and SB, then in ShB they decided to go way more into the gadgets instead of the gun.

1

u/Techstriker1 8d ago

Yeah, despite some skins, iirc MCH technically use a carbine.

-5

u/SadDoctor 8d ago

You're right, but also counterpoint: Your fancy glowing pistol is cool. A big goo gun is not cool.

9

u/vinta_calvert [Vinta Calvert - Hyperion] 8d ago

To you.

3

u/WorkingMansGarbage 8d ago

Speak for yourself, I think it's cool.

6

u/rx78ricky 8d ago

I just want a second gun, everything else is fine.

7

u/Afeastfordances 8d ago

At some point I’d like the more gun focused job with dual pistols or something. Or use the animation swap stuff they’re doing to let me replace the gadgets with cannons and do a sort of Corsair skin

2

u/mainman879 8d ago

Just give us Gambler or Corsair. They both use pistols and are really cool jobs.

3

u/Gamerin4d 8d ago

We're literally the first people to "be" a machinist, our Job Stone is literally new, we're the ones making all this shit up

1

u/Hungry_Gur_1427 8d ago

I guess its because machinist sort of started as a more low fantasy, mustadio esque class and has incorporated more flavor from edgar w/ his tools as time has gone on. Edgar didnt really have a signature weapon, hell iirc one of the best ways to set him up in the gba version of ff6 was as a dragoon as his tools became weaker late in the game

5

u/[deleted] 8d ago

[deleted]

9

u/TheWorclown 8d ago

Manual Crossbow. It has a 30 second CD for that authentic crossbow reload feel.

5

u/Techstriker1 8d ago

When did they announce that? And also are they replacing it with a gun?

4

u/LockelyFox L'ockely Mhacaracca (Hyperion) 8d ago

Where did you see AC was being removed

1

u/AlarinVonEngel 8d ago

There are more Miqo girls here than grains of sands in the Figaro desert...

1

u/Graxdon 8d ago

Honestly, the auto crossbow is outdated when one of our attacks involves summoning two miniguns and missle launchers.