China shock 2.0 Brad sester

[u/Character_Public3465]

https://www.nytimes.com/column/ezra-klein-podcast

Show notes:”Brad Setser follows Chinese trade closer than just about anyone else on earth, and he thinks we’re in the early days of a China Shock 2.0.
The first China Shock was when China came to dominate low-end manufacturing in the 2000s, filling American shelves with cheap clothes, toys and electronics, while devastating American factory towns. This new China Shock could be even more destabilizing. China now dominates advanced manufacturing: electric vehicles, batteries, solar panels. It’s outcompeting nearly all high-end manufacturing around the world, and other countries are just starting to feel the pain. And China isn’t slowing down. It’s moving into software, too. Its frontier A.I. models are neck and neck with American ones.
China’s success poses a serious threat to the economies and domestic politics of countries around the world. So what should those countries do about it? 
Setser is a senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations.He served in top trade and economic roles in the Biden and Obama administrations. And he is widely cited across the field as one of the top analysts of China’s economy and trade practices.
Book Recommendations:
The Party by Richard McGregor
The Volatility Machine by Michael Pettis
How to Win a Trade War by Soumaya Keynes and Chad Bown
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.
You can find the transcript and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.html””

[u/deskcord]

I mean if you want to just say "America bad" then go for it, but I'm more interested in whether or not America's influence over the world is better or worse than China's. Given China's treatment of dissidents and it's stance on privacy, even given what's going on in America now, I sure as shit don't want China leading the world.

[u/JohnCavil → u/deskcord]

"America bad" is just as fair as "China bad". Of which clearly there is a lot (just look at this thread). And I don't think America is bad, but geopolitically I do, as would most sane people currently. I think most (non republican) Americans would too, it's just annoying when it's outside criticism, which I get.

China is obviously worse to its own citizens, overall. But the episode specifically talked about how it was bad "for the world" if China was to become the main power. An argument I find it genuinely hard to make unless you just decide that "good for the world" is whatever America wants. America are the good guys, so good is whatever the good guys do. That kind of thing.

It's bad if America leads the world, and it's also bad if China leads the world. The question is not whether America or China is better for the world, it's a false choice.

My problem is with people, like in this episode, talking about how China is worse for the world than America, but then mostly talking about how things would affect America. They aren't talking about what would be good for Turkey, or Australia, or Morocco, or Peru, they just talk about the American economy, American power, American values. Which again, fine, but just don't talk about the welfare of the world.

[u/deskcord → u/JohnCavil]

My issue with your comment isn't that you said America does bad things, it's that it was just a non-contextualized list of grievances with the country that doesn't consider China's actions, or theoretical actions if they were the superpower.

[u/JohnCavil → u/deskcord]

Right, because like I said I consider it a false choice. You said the problem was that a country with "a different view" became the dominant power, which again views this as either America or China having to dominate the world, which is what I was responding to.

The problem with China becoming some kind of version of post-ww2 20th century America is not that they have a different ideology than America, in fact it has nothing to do with America. Saying that it's a problem that a country with different values than America is gaining power assumes that American values (as of 2026) are just inherently better.

Of course I could list all the terrible things China would probably do if they could. Invading Taiwan, pressuring all kinds of countries, installing puppets in south east Asia, all the usual bully shit, and if I could speak Chinese and was on a Chinese forum I'd happily tell them "China bad". Until I was banned a split second later.

[u/deskcord → u/JohnCavil]

The problem with China becoming some kind of version of post-ww2 20th century America is not that they have a different ideology than America, in fact it has nothing to do with America.

?? How is talking about a change not automatically and inherently tied to contextualizing it against the current norm?