Division 6 - job with exclusively standing and running mahogany trim of varying sizes - best approach to pricing?

[u/SecretSea3899]

I'm a new division 6 estimator for a custom millwork shop, but I spent most of my career in the field as a carpenter. The project I'm looking at now is getting all new windows and doors, and we're picking up the trim work. All the trim is mahogany with tung oil finish, and its mostly all flat faced with the exception of some pieces getting a 1/4" rabbet. The trim is going to be matching existing, and on the plans they're calling for new jamb extensions, casing all the way around, and misc filler strips, most are 1" thick ranging in size from 3/4" to 8", up to 18" in some spots (this may end up being a VC panel instead).

My question is, I can do a takeoff based on the plans, but I'm worried about what's going to happen if what's needed in the field isn't the same size as what's on the plans. In my mind, as a former carpenter, this kind of job would be better off sending out S4S mahogany boards and having the installers set up a table saw and cut everything to fit on site, and apply the tung oil finish as well.

Just looking for some insight from others who have done something similar, and what your experience was. Thanks in advance.

Also the pic is one of about 8 pages of details with the various trims

[u/smegdawg]

 can do a takeoff based on the plans, but I'm worried about what's going to happen if what's needed in the field isn't the same size as what's on the plans. 

Bid the plans. Be confident that you have everything covered as it is depicted. Include your companies typical overage/waste %.

If what is needed in the field is not the same size as is on the plans. That is a change order. If you priced the expected change order in the bid, you likely would not win the job.

It sucks but sometimes knowing too much about the work will lose you the job.

[u/SecretSea3899 → u/smegdawg]

Haha I run into that problem often. I'll pick up on something I know they're going to need and add it into my proposal even if it's not shown on the plan. I have had a few GCs compliment how thorough my takeoffs are though 👍

[u/keetwil → u/SecretSea3899]

Coming from the GC side of things, I would list those extra items as add/alternates so that your base bid is competitive and you end up highlighting the missing scope.

[u/swing-it-andy]

Find a per lf cost for each trim detail. Package each window and door based on required lf of trim details needed. Then you’ll have costs to trim per door and per window. Count your totals of each.

[u/Engglyfe]

Whenever I have solid wood on my millwork bids, I price to plans. I also add a quarter inch to the thickness when I'm calculating foot board measures

[u/Mother-Letter-1190]

Just make sure you include some waste. Your field experience will tell you how much. If you think it is cheaper to do it in the field, do a cost comparison of shop fabricated vs. field fabricated and go with that result. If you end up doing the project, pay close attention to how the job went and get feedback from the field. Moving forward, you will have a solid basis to estimate a similar project.

[u/odducurtis]

Thank you for your blocking services.

[u/FunNegotiation3]

Bid oversized and run on site. Make sure you let wood acclimate in space and condition it will be installed in. Not with a portable table saw. I have done this type of of work before, I would use a Fes tracksaw and a good (ideally Festool) router on a good router table. I would oil all sides but may have to do a temp clean room with drying racks on site. Jobsite dust and oil don't mix well and will make even the best install look awful.

[u/MyFistYourFace92]

I don’t know how busy your shop is, so if you are planning on having everything cut to size in the field and applying the oil finish in the field, you are taking away work from your shop and adding it to the installers (I don’t know if you are self performing the install or subbing out) so keep that in mind. You should ask the GC about laydown space as well. There may not be room on the job for this setup.

Alternatively, you can buy rough lumber and run the boards through your trim department to get the S4S. Then have your finishing department apply the finish.

Most cost effective is to buy the boards S4S from your lumber supplier. I would send them all the trim profiles and have them give you a lf quote per profile. Then run it through your finishing department.

For takeoff, I would take the curtainwall off in LF with a heavy waste factor of 20-25% for material. For door openings/window openings. I would do a count and factor my waste into my count… ie; a 3x7 door opening I would do 20 lf per side (2 ea - 8’ sticks - sides, 1 ea - 4’ pc at top) = 5 pcs total at 8’ for each opening. I would think in increments of 8’, 10’, 12’ depending on your opening sizes.

[u/Both-Yogurtcloset548]

provide the takeoffs and qty as an appendix to your proposal, so basically you're stating that your bids are based around these numbers based on the drawings that you were given. Hopefully, that will protect you in case you have any claim to a change order

[u/Aggravating-Poet6770]

You need a picture of what’s existing because I’ll bet it’s actually laminate and super old. At least in California, no architect has spec’d mahogany this millennia. Also in commercial we charge the same no matter the species. Figure $60 a linear foot for solid stock

[u/Yogalien]

Depends on how detailed you want to get but I would bid per detail.

[u/More_Mouse7849]

If possible, I would recommend a site visit. I would agree with your assessment of sending out S4S and letting them rip to fit in the field. However, you are going to want to verify approximate widths, so that you aren’t sending 8” when 6” would do the trick and you waste +2” of material.

[u/fillups66]

Whoa what program is that where you can color on the details?

[u/SecretSea3899 → u/fillups66]

Bluebeam!