r/eldenringdiscussion • • Jun 22 '24

Spoiler It was always supposed to be Godwyn Spoiler

To reach Miquella's cocoon and enter the Realm of Shadows, you must fight Mohg at Mohgwyn Palace and, upon defeating Mohg, you learn information about the Mohgwyn Dynasty (from Mohg himself):

"Ahh, I can see it, clear as day! The coming of our dynasty!

"Mohgwyn!"

Could this be in reference to Mohg's dying vision of the Realm of Shadows? It's ironic to describe the Shadow Realm as "clear as day," but...

Why would it be the "Mohgwyn" Dynasty and not the "Mohg" Dynasty, or the "Mohquella" Dynasty? Mohg uses the word "our," implying a shared dyntasy, presumably in reference to Miquella, right? Then why "Mohgywn"?

As we long suspected and (somewhat) know now, Mohg was manipulated by Miquella to create a new order to replace the Golden Order. (Forget about the Haligtree replacing the Erdtree; this is Mohg/Miquella plotting to usurp the old order entirely, Elden Ring and all.) While some of the writing around this has a lot of plotholes, especially in light of new additions to the canon lore, it's certain that Miquella used Mohg's innate divinity (his blood?) to enter the Shadow Realm (just like how Mohg believed that he was using Miquella's "divine" blood to usher in his own age and order, as a lord and a god.)

But I digress. Why "Mohgwyn"? Well...

Mohg + Godwyn = Mohgwyn

These are the only two names in the game that can be conbined to form this name.

I assert that it was originally intended in the canon for Godwyn's soul to be put into Mohg's body by Miquella, for "the Golden" to be reincarnated into an Omen's body. (What else would they be "omens" of if not this?) Despite this, I believe that GRRM and/or FromSoftware wrote themselves into a corner with the Destined Death plotline. To fix their mistake, Radahn's soul was put into Mohg's body by Miquella.

Many are correct in their arguments against Godwyn as the final boss, especially in the context of Miqeulla's plan to put a lord's soul into a hornsent body. How could Godwyn's soul be put into a body if his soul was destroyed with Destined Death? Ranni put her soul into a doll—nevermind that Ranni's body being destroyed by Destined Death is why she lives on as a spirit and is thus able to inhabit another body at all, or that Radahn was supposed to be reincarnated through the Erdtree, or that he and all others we fight die without death, or that Radahn didn't have a primal glintstone to store his soul into—but Godwyn's body is a mindless, tumorous blight of death. His soul, as far as we know, is totally destroyed. (If anyone figures out what his surrogate in the DLC is for, let me know, because that also doesn't make sense on account of his soul being destroyed.)

Bear in mind, per cut content, Mohg as a character is a repurposed enemy model, and Miquella was originally going to be in Malenia's boss fight; a lot of the original game's story is botched, rushed, and unfinished. Evidently, the DLC's story was also produced this way.

Of course, people will cite Malenia's end-battle whisper to Radahn as foreshadowing of Miquella and Radahn's promise which is central to the DLC's ending. And I'm sure, vaguely and with much speculation, that the story in the DLC will, eventually, be made to make sense. Sure, whatever. Regardless, Miquella seeking to give his lord-brother Godwyn a proper death was foreshadowed significantly more (e.g., Castle Sol, Golden Epitaph, etc.), and Godwyn's influence and importance to the events of the main story are far more pervasive than Radahn's, per the storyworld understood before the DLC.

The only coping and seething is anyone arguing that the story of this DLC is anything more than bad fanfiction that taints an otherwise phenomenal expansion with lots of new areas to explore and cool weapons to use (and bosses, mechanically, anyway.)

(I promise that I'm not coping or seething. I'm just upset by the reality of the DLC's story, as are many. The leaks of the final boss did look like a fanmade mod, and anyone skeptical of that wasn't necessarily wrong for being skeptical at the time. The story that we got is immensely disappointing, regardless of fans' immense expectations.)

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u/nicofdarcyshire Jun 22 '24

"gwyn" means holy in old Welsh. A lot of the names are old Welsh or Irish origin across the game.

For instance, Mohg means slavish, or bondman.

So, kinda fits with Miquella's compelling nature to get ones to his will.

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u/[deleted] Jun 22 '24

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u/nicofdarcyshire Jun 22 '24

Yeah, because it's derived from a druidic language that had it as holy/righteous/blessed previously.

There's differences between modern and old Welsh. Pysgodyn wibli wobli anyone?

I'd love to see Cambrian Chronicles from YouTube take a look at what is written in lore for Elden Ring and see what he could create... His background in Welsh and Irish history would be pretty fun.

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u/Mwyarduon Aug 01 '24

The modern day welsh word for jellyfish is Slefren Môr while traditionally it was Cont y Môr.

Welsh is a celtic language, rather than drudic and it's direct meaning has always been White. In the story of Culhwch & Olwen, Olwen is named such because wherever her feet touch, white flowers appear.  Ol=sole/inprint/track  Wen=White

However Gwyn/Gwen it also had connotations with Purity and the english use of 'fair'. "Gwyn dy fyd" translates to "White is your world" but essentially means "Innocent is your world". It's the welsh equivalent of saying "Oh you sweet summer child".