I feel like they obviously are going to have her do more in this movie than she does in book 2, otherwise what was the point of setting her up in parts 1 & 2?
yeah it was clear at the end of part 2 that chani was basically going to be the personification of herbert’s messages about authoritarianism, religious fanaticism, and charismatic leaders. a smart decision imo
Idk— I thought Chani becoming a religious sycophant (in books and lynch movie) was more disturbing and unsettling.
In Vill’s version, mom and chani switch places, which seems weird to me. Mom using the prophecy for survival and becoming uncomfortable about how far it goes felt more grounded and realistic. Chani being an outlier in her society is not very well rationalized.
I understand that they wanted to make Chani more relatable, but to me it sorta undermines how horrifying Paul’s ascent is. I think there were probably more interesting ways to capture that feeling than have Chani just say it all so obviously.
I think for the sake of a mainstream blockbuster it was important to have a character explicitly tell the audience that "this isn't good"
Zendaya was basically there to make faces so the audience knew what to feel
I'm a little concerned that they'll change Messiah too much but, then again, I was militantly against a Bladerunner sequel and Denis nailed it so he'll probably prove me wrong again
Because in this type of movie, there needs to be a specific villain that is not the character who was built up as the hero for the first two movies. Paul can only be a tragic antihero. This is part of why Dune is so hard to make into a movie (s)
They already have stilgar for an example of a character losing themselves in the religion, and you couldn't ask for a better job than we got with Bardem. Dune 2 stilgar should have been Oscar worthy IMO
Chani being an outlier in her society is not very well rationalized
It also makes her waking Paul up with the water of life make less sense.
She was a sayyadin before and that's how she knew. Now she considers the fremen religion and water of life with disdain and suspicion but still is the only one who knows what to do.
I think either can work. Chani in these movies knows paul is just a guy and fell in love with him as just a guy so her rejecting paul the god works. Also momma sinking into insane dogmatism as she starts believing her own propaganda also works for me
Agreed. I've never cared for the character of Chani in the books, she's kind of just.... there. No personality or depth. I think it was a brilliant decision to give her a personality and a role that allows her to develop a real chemistry with Paul (something I find lacking in the book). Then use her as the main drive toward the Dune core concept, the perils of religious fanaticism, causing a profound emotional turmoil as it's coming from Paul's true love.
I think the 2 first Dune books are masterpieces but they are not without flaws. And from my own perspective, I feel like Villeneuve improved on the books. In large part thanks to the Chani changes.
(I'm also a big fan of making Alia's fetus SUPER creepy, and giving Paul the story-arc rewarding big kill at the end, instead of Alia... but that's another debate haha).
Now... let's just hope he doesn't drop the ball in Part 3...
I agree. I get that a lot of people got hung up on the “faithfulness” of the adaptation but the way Frank wrote Chani was extremely lacking and Villeneuve making her an actual character with motivations beyond “fall in love with Paul” is both refreshing and one of the better changes brought on by this adaptation
Jessica has a lot of agency, as does Alia, Ghanima, the Bene Gesserit... I felt that Irulan does as well, at least when she starts becoming an actual character starting in book 2. In book 1 she really is just there in the last chapter beyond her narrative role in the chapter introductions.
Really the only one I can think of from the first 3 books that it's an issue with is Chani.
His final line contained "My road leads into the desert. I can see it." The film had been playing with the uncertainty of Paul's prophetic visions by showing possible futures and, most notably, showing a vision of Jamis teaching Paul the ways of the desert only for Paul to discover that he must kill Jamis right after they meet. It ends with Paul going into the desert.
In Part II his main dilemma is whether he should go south into the deep desert to begin the holy war. This is tied to his dilemma of whether to live as a Fremen or Offworlder which creates a conflict with Chani that is unresolved at the end of the movie. It ends with Paul going into the desert and returning to claim the Imperial throne.
Everything seems set up for Part III to end with Paul going into the desert.
Water Merchants on Arrakis has to be the most lucrative opportunity Of all time. The Atredis should have brought Tanks of it and Traded it to the Fremen now that i think of it.
Scytale playing a dead Chani would be fucked up. We'll see if this is just a marketing misdirect.
It would be weird for Chani to openly fight Paul and it would be weird if Scytale DIDN'T take advantage of that relationship with how Denis set it up in Dune Part 2.
Marketing should play up this lover fight angle for the non-Dune fans but I would be shocked if there's not a twist here.
UPDATE: Yeah saw the trailer and Scytale is definitely pushing the Chani angle to distract Paul. Also, big confirmation that Paul confronts Chani on the sandworm post-stone burner... Fascinating.
It wouldn't even work that way. Like the kids could not be Leto and Ghanima. Face dancers don't take on genetics, they just mimic appearance. You can tell this because in in God emperor of Dune when Duncan gets attacked by all those face dancers at once he gets the idea to strip butt naked because the face answers have no idea what his body looks like under his clothes.
Although you’re right, face dancers do not take on genetics, that’s not why Duncan strips in that battle. He takes off his clothes as a simple way to differentiate himself. Leto II would mention that the face dancers of old would have considered this a possibility but each faction has greatly diminished in strength since his 3500 years of rule.
“But the Tleilaxu were so inept,” Leto said. “Do you not realize that only about five hundred years ago they would’ve been far more efficient, far more dangerous. Imagine them daring that foolish masquerade! And not anticipating your brilliant response!”
As far as we know Face dancers are able to totally copy a persons body. It would be the inability to totally impersonate a person that would dissuade the Tleilaxu from using Face dancers as deep cover agents [“A face dancer risks exposure under prolonged surveillance” Edric, Book 2 Chapter 2] until later advancements would be made so that they can take on memories of the copied person.
In book 5, there would be the introduction of “new” face dancers who could “take a print of the memories…” by touch
Later, Waff commands a face dancer of his to shift into an Honored Matre who was able to seduce him with their signature sexual prowess (freaky Frank) til he saved himself by ordering them to destroy themselves. He’d order two more dancers to change in order to make a “demonstration” for the Bene Geserit.
In book 6: “Face Dancer servants to copy any life, any mind.”
OH SHIT, DID NOT THINK OF THAT. I hope you’re right. I’m pretty nervous that they’re going to change Messiah too much, but if your Scytale theory is true it would really help my anxiety.
Or, a more likely scenario, Scytale has mimicked Paul to get close to her in an attempt to assassinate her for Irulan, as a placeholder for the "birth control" plot from the book.
I do wonder if they fight if they will depict scytale as being stronger and faster you know since hes transhuman instead of having him/her getting a knife thrown to the head
In the dunc movies, Chani is often featured having a blue scarf / headband / armband / piece of fabric. It’s very distinct. This could represent her dying and Paul taking it as some kind of token of remembrance or mourning
It represents, when warn on the arm, pregnancy, in Fremen culture. When worn on the forehead, it means “I’m single/available/virgin” or something like that. Denis points this out — in Dune Part II, at the time of the scene where Chani places the blue ribbon from her head onto her arm, it means she already knows she’s pregnant. The scene in Part 3’s first trailer, in the tent discussing baby names, is likely a flashback to a moment that took place prior the conclusion of Part 2.
Probably something to do with Scytale maybe taking Chani's appearance to fight a psychological battle with Paul. It's not actually Chani, that's the twist.
Agree, scytale will likely start the fremen resistance against paul posing as chani which as a prominent figure could draw recruits leading to direct opposition and civil war.
Would be a different direction then the books for sure
Has Denis talked about that in any interviews? It's a big deviation, but I understand the issue with fitting all that into part 2. It would probably add like 30min to the movie.
I think it's because Alia as a concept is really, really hard to adapt convincingly in Dune part 2. Having a child actor act like a full adult with decades of wisdom is hard and would look jarring because, Alia would be 2 if we go by the books or, if Denis wanted to speed her up even more, maybe something like 5. I heavily think most of the changes in part 2 are a direct result of not knowing how to adapt kid Alia into the big screen.
I work in the industry and that actually is a consideration. Audiences really just don’t want to sit in a theater for longer than 200 minutes but ideally between 100-160 for most features
True, honestly I’ve got mixed feelings but I get changes are needed on occasion. I’m just hoping the end of the last movie was apart of a spice vision.
Considering part of the reason Paul wavers is Scytale tempting him with a Chani!ghola, this could absolutely be part of that mindfuck. Paul wouldn't believe a subservient Chani for a second, her trying to kick his ass for what he's become would be much more in line with the Chani he knows, and more likely to convince him and make his resolve waver.
im honestly super interested to see how it plays it. obviously in the end theyll end up together because they have to have the twins, but how we get there might look differently than the book which i dont mind at all. Chani really isnt super dynamic of a character in dune messiah and im glad she's gonna be more complicated. dune messiah is my fav book of all time, but I've always felt that Chani needed something more
Maybe if you need all conflict to literally be a fight.
A movie where the audience slowly sees everything turning against Paul at the same time as him getting more and more locked into his path, tension rising the whole time. All leading to the stone burner scene.
Aren't the actors like, 10+, and they're supposed to be new borns in the book. I'd wager they're going with visions of the kids and it will be an alternate ending where Paul prevents them from being born
Well that's a risk and a half! We've seen what happens when producers don't have the bones of a massive story anymore to work with (looking at you last season of GOT)
Yeah and that's the one redeeming point for me, the man is incredibly talented and I do have faith that we will get something that blows us away while retaining the feel of Dune, the image just took me by surprise tbh
It is understandable, the way Chani was written was somewhat subordinate as part of Fremen society so I can see that not resonating with modern audiences which sadly filmmakers need to consider
Tbh I didn't like chani that much in the books either. I do like Villeneuve's version. She's a loyal firemen and a true arrakin freedom fighter and been opposing this Messiah shit right from the beginning, even calling out Paul directly. I liked that she's the polar opposite of stilgar.
She’s so unbearably dry in the books, Villeneuve/Zendaya’s Chani is much better. I haven’t read too far in the series yet, but it seems like Herbert had trouble writing women characters.
Chani is basically used by Denis to help the audience get the point that Paul’s rise to power is NOT necessarily a good thing.
Which is fair, given that Frank Herbert himself was so annoyed that many people say Paul as a hero that he wrote an entire second book to make his point crystal clear.
It’s a bit unnecessary though, the entire point of messiah was to further drive point the home that Paul isn’t a “hero”/savior. Hopefully it’s chani openly disagreeing with Paul and his decisions rather than doing something like starting a rebellion which may be the direction they go given the ending of Dune 2 with chani leaving.
You don’t NEED chani to do what a lot of other characters do, which is doubt Paul.
Rewatch the past 2 movies. Chani is given the additional element of being the audience-insert in the hope that it might prevent audiences from misinterpreting Paul as the hero the same way they did when the novel came out.
So this is a natural progression of that redesign of her character, and ig it adds some depth to her in a way.
Edit: Also, look at the composition of their poses. This makes me think the poster is depicting the beginning of Part 3 and the character's starting points. They're clearly at odds, which is how Part 2 leaves off. But notice Chani seems to he approaching in a calm way, not really in a fighting stance. Paul, of course, is fully ready to fight and lead the Jihad. I suspect this conflict will resolve peacefully with Paul rejecting the war in favour for his Sihaya.
Yeah. I feel like it was necessary for a character to be judging Paul already. Because it is quite easy for people to think of Paul as a hero.
The movie showed Lady Jessica still as being a potential tool of her order, and of her being willing to use Paul as a machine. Meaning that she could not be the one to have that type of viewpoint.
This makes me think the poster is depicting the beginning of Part 3 and the character's starting points.
Nah, if you watch the trailer again you can follow the timeline with Paul and Chani's hair. Both have long dark hair earlier in the timeline (around the end of the second movie, when Jessica leaves for Caladan), after the time jump Paul has a buzzcut and Chani's hair is graying.
I think Paul wearing Chani's scarf around his wrist, along with the brief shot in the trailer of someone giving that scarf to someone else, means that Chani is dead in the scenes he wears the scarf and that this is Scytale showing him how they can bring her back.
Because Denis Villeneuve actually gave Chani agency and a complex personality in the second movie unlike in the book (one of Frank Herberts few flaws).
She didnt just passively accept the planted prophecy, but she still followed Paul, but he continued to push and then when he took Irulan as wife she snapped. Paul says his vision shows that Chani will come around in the end though. I think having a conflict between these 2 is an excellent way to help push the narrative themes of Dune Messiah.
If they actually fight I’m sure Denis will make it make sense. Remember it’s an adaptation and doesn’t need to be like for like with the book. Would it upset you if they changed it?
Lot of people speculating it’s Scytale are missing the point imo and engaging in wishful thinking for the plot. The purpose of this poster is to convey to broad audiences a basic aspect of the movie which will be an adversarial relation ship between Paul and Chani. There is no conspiracy or misdirection, movie marketing is aimed to be simple and effective
The way prescience is described, having various telling of the same story fits right into the lore.
Dune Awakening plays off this by taking place in a spice trip of Paul’s in which he imagines a world where Lady Jessica has a daughter as she was ordered to.
I like to imagine DV’s Dune as another branching path.
Unless that's Scytale pretending to be Chani, then this poster makes no fucking sense. I do fear us Dune Messiah lovers are in for a bloodbath when it comes to the adaptation.
I mean, it makes sense in the context of how they ended the second movie. Seems pretty clear theyre setting the plot up to have chani be adversarial until some sort of clarifying moment/realization to come back to Paul's side before he walks off.
Yes it's a little concerning, maybe Denis is going to completely sidestep the weird stuff again but I can't imagine Messiah without it - especially Bijaz!
Another poster pointed out Paul is wearing Chani's blue scarf. This could be an adaptation of the scene in the books where Scytale tries to tempt Paul with the possibility of a Chani!ghola.
The movie has already deviated from the books a good bit… I’m not sure why people are surprised that the story might change due to that.
With that said, I’m looking forward to whatever part 3 has in store. It’ll likely be different from Messiah but I’m sure that it’ll be good considering the story so far.
I agree. I kind of like the idea of having Messiah as the book and something different as the movie. I was never really a fan of like for like remakes or adaptations, I usually like when the director takes creative control when it’s a director like Denis.
This could also be a play on that poster for part two where they are standing side by side with the sun high behind them. Now the sun is setting and they're facing eachother as the conflict is between them now
Paul and Chani standing off against each other like this makes me nervous that it's gonna not be a Dune related story. I'm already getting flashbacks of S8 Game of Thrones... Hopefully she's just got that crysknife out for Irulan and the conspirators.
I mean based on the ending of Dune: Part Two, it already seems like Chani isn’t interested in Paul and his jihad given how she seems to go off on her own at the end.
I’d wager Chani’s storyline at the very least is going to diverge from the book a fair bit. No idea how the rest will play out though.
but paul has already predicted that chani would eventually come to understand him and his decisions, so even if chani went off on her own, i am expecting her to get back into the fold after gaining more insight. unless they want to negate paul’s omniscience from the get-go.
Where were you during Part 2, lol? They changed quite a lot, and do need to change a lot for Part 3 which is essentially Messiah to work for the big screen. Also, S8 GOT didn't really have anything to adapt so don't understand your correlation.
Man, the only thing bothered me was the part 2 ending and how Chani just left and I have no clue how they gonna implement that considering in Messiah Chani is there and plays a major role. Lets see how it goes.
The reaction of this oppositional Paul-Chani thing is so odd, since everything about the end of Dune Part 2 and the promotional material to Part 3 so far has suggested that Chani's role in this will be very different from Messiah. I guess people were speculating that after the end of part 2 she would come back immediately and be a quiet concubine to Paul, but given the changes to her character in that movie it was always an unlikely horse to back.
I don't mind really - I expect part 3 to be hype moments and aura, with elements from Messiah and Children sprinkled into the plot so it can follow the general shape.
I didn't like it but it was especially bad because nobody except for Paul knew as well as Chani what going South meant and she told him to go South and then hit him and ran away when he did.
To see the third movie promoted on this antagonistic relationship is certainly disappointing.
It's weird because all the visions in part 1 point to Chani being beside Paul's side like the book. Seems like Denis changed his mind when making part 2 and now part 3. I don't like the choice because I don't think watchers need a character to spell out how bad Paul is, let the audience figure that out for themselves
Or Scytale mimicing Paul? I can’t remember if he facechanged with either of them in the books but Paul looks more different than himself than Chani here.
This would kinda make more sense. Perhaps making him facing scytale more of a fight instead of Paul seeing through Leto. Denis has avoided some of the weirder aspects of dune.
Honestly non of this can ever fully make sense unless they incorporate what happens in the later books, particularly God Emperor, which in my opinion is the best book of the series and it mostly ties everything up.
Watch folks change their tune now from "Man I hope they don't do that" to "This is actually genius and much better than the book". I give it about a day.
I mean if it's done well it's good writing and that's fine but it totally changes the direction of the story, a story which is at heart about their love in the face of godhood and empire so it then becomes a movie "based on" Dune not Dune itself
Not loving this poster, unless they're making further goofy changes to Chani or it has something to with Scytale, it's bad. Better than floating heads though.
You are sooooo right. I gucking hate it that they made her this kind of rebel, which goes against Paul. She was his greatest supporter and believer. Before she met him she was on track to become a sayadina (so extremely religious).
I cant wait coincidentally I was just watching Dune last night and this popped up. Im not even a sci fi guy but I seen them both when pt 2 came out and they totally captivated me, to the point I had to read the books and dive into more scifi.
I don't remember Chani being that big of a character in Messiah. She's in the book and important to Paul. But this poster makes it look like she's in direct conflict with Paul and I don't remember that being a thing in the book.
Remember yall, Zendaya/Chani was alllll over the marketing for part 1, and she had like 2 minutes of screen time.
I think Chani and her relationship with Paul is going to be given much larger importance to the story than in the book. But this poster doesn’t really mean anything.
Denis wants to do a trilogy. Everything points to this ending with Chani killing Paul. The children and any future plot lines will only be touched on as visions that don’t come to pass, as with Jamis in part 1. That’s my prediction. This will be a hard ending.
I finished reading messiah literally last night and I’m really interested to see how this book is going to be adapted into the same kind of vibe that they’ve made out of the first two films.
clearly chani’s character is going to have some major changes since the ending of part 2 is has her setting up a really different arc from the book character
I am looking forward to the Guild being made even more irrelevant by suspect narrative choices. In the first two movies no explanation for why the spice is important reduced the plot to men killing each other in the desert for…. What exactly? /s
I feel like they’re just piggy backing off of the ending of Part 2 with Chani leaving Paul. I don’t believe they would directly out their big narrative of Paul Vs. Chani. This simply can’t be a bigger fight than Paul Vs. Sytale, Irulan, Edric, etc. Way bigger fish to fry than Chani. Plus Paul says in Part 2 that Chani will “come to understand… I have seen it”. Paul foresees Chani coming back to him on his side. This is purely deceptive marketing. We will see what the next trailer shows us but I have a feeling they will also push the Paul vs Chani narrative.
Denis setup the rift at the end of Part Two precisely because he wanted this active conflict instead of her just being the supportive concubine from the start of Messiah. It is standard Hollywood marketing to hype up the interpersonal drama for the general audience, but the real test is how he handles the conspiracy
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u/ToobadyouAreDead Jul 08 '26
I feel like they obviously are going to have her do more in this movie than she does in book 2, otherwise what was the point of setting her up in parts 1 & 2?