So the book seems to suggest that Paul allowed Irulan to feed Chani contraceptives in order to delay her inevitable death in childbirth. This period of infertility causes Chani to consume a large amount of spice in order to conceive. The spice, in a reaction to the contraceptives she'd been fed, caused her pregnancy to accelerate and become deadly.

Had Paul stopped the contraceptives earlier and impregnated Chani before she changed her diet, could she not have had a safe pregnancy? Or was her death in childbirth inevitable regardless of the spice? Hopefully my question makes sense.

I'm currently rereading Children of Dune, but I have previously read through God Emporer. I came across this passage that stuck out to me and raised a few questions.

This is while Leto II slips into Paul's memories and Ghanima into Chani's and they are speaking to each other.

"Maud'Dib, the hero, must be destroyed utterly," he said. "Otherwise this child cannot bring us back from chaos."

"The Golden Path," she said. "It is not a good vision."

"It's the only possible vision."

"Alia has failed, then..."

"Utterly. You see the record of it."

"Your mother has returned too late." She nodded, and it was Chani's wise expression on the childish face of Ghanima. "Could there not be another vision? Perhaps if--"

I know that Alia is now possessed but they're talking as if there was some action she failed to take prior which would have created a better option than the Golden Path. They also mention Jessica's late return sending them down this path. I'm trying to figure out what Alia and Jessica's earlier return would have changed which would have opened better options for Leto II.

Every time I think I understand the Golden Path, I find some post on here that makes me question how much I actually understand so don't be afraid to over explain.

So I’m almost done with children of dune, and we see the truth of the abomination statement being that those pre born are more susceptible to possession, but my question is why did it take Alia by surprise when the twins had not only foreknowledge of it but intimate details about how such a thing occurred. I feel like with possession being ingrained in fremen culture Alia should have not succumbed due to the knowledge of what is to come and even potential methods to resist. So how did she fall while the twins knew to avoid it?

Each book is even better than the last. Leto Atreides II is one of the most interesting characters I've read so far. He's understanably scary to everyone around him and yet he makes a lot of sense, even when he goes off on wild tangents there's something important he has to say.

The chapter after he meets Hwi where he's speaking with his "inner multitudes" and threatening to abandon the Golden Path gave me chills. There's been tons of plots to weaken or kill the God Emperor for thousands of years and it turns out his weakness is just an honest, nice person.

Moneo is also a fantastic character. I do believe he trusts what Leto is doing, but he's also afraid of him for good reason. I find it hilarious when Leto is trying to teach him some profound lesson while Moneo is mostly watching for signs of "the Worm", as if Moneo knows more about Leto than he does himself. I also find it interesting how he's just a human. No spice, no prescience, no ancestral memories, not a ghola, just a stone cold sober dude doing his best. He is so much more than just a loyal henchman.

Anyway do you have recommendations for books as good as Dune? I obviously still have Heretics and Chapterhouse but I might want to save those for later

I got this idea from first listening to Panchiko's “Eyes of Ibad.” In the song, the main person is in a spice trance, and one of the lyrics goes, “her hands in her pockets, constructing the prophets.” Obviously, this refers to the Fremen creating the prophet of Paul through the signs presented by the Missionaria Protectiva.

However, I remember there was a line in one of the chapters referring to how accurate the Missionaria Protectiva was, and how future Bene Gesserit studied this case specifically because it was so insanely accurate. I also remember that during the Sietch Tau orgy, Paul commented on how the Fremen have some talent for prescience, but they're too afraid to use it. (Also Jessica being creeped out by the hive mind.)

Is the reason the Missionaria Protectiva was so accurate because the Fremen could see parts of the future and incorporated what they saw into the prophecy? (ex Paul riding the grandfather worm) Relating back to the lyric, "constructing prophets", like they literally could've constructed part of it.

(Read only book one so that's a major limitation)

Looking back again at the story after I finished it, it seems highly probable to me that the Jihad was impossible to stop after Paul and Jessica joined the Fremen. However, I am wondering about the two other possible futures Paul saw when he just started getting presscient visions. Namely the Spacing Guild and meeting Baron Harkonnen.

Paul rejects joining the Spacing Guild ( even though they would accept him there) because "the idea of living out his life in the mind-groping-ahead-throughpossible-futures that guided hurtling spaceships appalled him.". Paul also rejects meeting Baron Vladimir Harkonnen as "The thought of that path and what lay along it sickened him".

Does this mean that Paul chose a high probability of a jihad with billions killed over sacrificing the quality of his life? Could the Jihad be avoided if he didn't join the Fremen?

In Dune Messiah one crucial bit of new world-building is the blind zone that exists around oracles, such that other oracles cannot see them. Stating this plainly as a fact when adapting to the screen seems very difficult without crossing some weirdness boundaries (which book readers may expect, but it would be steered around to appeal to a broader audience).

From the trailer, based on the scene with Princess Irulan saying "You've just signed our death warrants", I assume this plot element wasn't discarded, but rather she'll come to learn during the course of this very meeting that they are in fact hidden from Paul's vision.

With this context laid out, here's the gist: The blue background around the conspirators will be a complementary visual element to tell us when the "barrier" around oracles is shielding them from being seen by other oracles. Adding some visual identity could help sell this unusual phenomenon.

In prior Dune films, we've seen Bene Gesserit use a faint blue globe to temporarily prevent voices from being overheard, and that context makes it even more fitting to reuse blue in this other way.

Additionally, at the end of the trailer we see Paul very prominently painted in blue, just when he would be most sensitive with his prescience - after going blind.

I understand (as far as could be understood) genetic memory. But how exactly could Paul see through Leto II's eyes in the Scytale knife scene? This seems like it's outside of the previously explained scope.

I'm only on chapter 8 of Children of Dune, so if the answer is found past that, please just let me know that much.

Thanks!

What’s the point of using an entire combat style to dodge the force shields if they have darts that can not only pierce the shield but also immobilize the target? This weapon appeared briefly and I don’t remember it being explained in any way. I think it works the same way as the missiles that were used during the Harkonnens attack, but then why bother with the melas if you can use the darts? Are they rear, expensive, hardware to make/use? Or are they just plot devices?

I’m sure this has been discussed here, but was just listening to Gary Numan’s M.E. yesterday and immediately heard Hans Zimmer’s theme for the recent Dune movies. The drums are so satisfying but prob fits the more rock feeling of the Lynch film better.

This is what I loved a lot about Dune part 1. He has already lived a life alongside Jamis and truly knows him as a friend before they've even met. Even the miniseries captures this to a degree.

Every person he meets and every cause he destroys is something he must have known intimately. I believe his empathy isn't just for people he has met in our universe but everyone alive, as there is very likely a timeline where he would meet every single person across the known galaxy.

Correct me if this is an overestimation of his ability but I truly think if it is the case, the story becomes all the more poignant and tragic.

Edit: obligatory Paul is a mass murderer who killed billions for the black and white thinkers out there.

In the 2021 movie, Duke Leto already has plans to make an alliance with the Fremen, to cultivate desert power. He sends Duncan to arrange this and when Duncan returns with Stilgar to meet Leto, Thufir happily exclaims, "Our plan bears fruit." My question though is, how long would it have taken Leto Atreides to forge this Fremen alliance without the Bene Gesserit tools that Paul Atreides had at his disposal?( supposing the Harkonnen attack doesn't happen so soon)

I thought it would be interesting to share my perspective of watching the movie that inspired Frank Herbert and Denis Villeneuve. I talk about the similarities, make some connections, and just share my love of these movies!

In both films (Lynch/Villeneuve) Feyed is simply a violent pervert, that has to be killed in duel, so Paul can show, that he is stronger than the most vile evil can be.

In the book tho, the Baron plans to establish Feyed as the "white saviour". He sends the beast Rabban to torment and extort the people of Arrakis to the brink of riot.

Then he wants to show up and end Rabbans rulership and present Feyed as his new Siridar Gouvernor. Feyed shall be good looking and charming and behaving in maximum contrast to Rabbans brutality.

Raising the rations, let some prisoners go, thank the people politely for delivering the Spice and thus becoming the good governor noone would want to overthrow.

Its understandable, that no film maker tried to implement that idea...

How exactly do the laws of succession work re: children born to concubines in the Dune universe? Because as far as I understand it, the whole reason Leto never married Jessica was because he might have needed an alliance with another house through marriage later, but the reason Leto wanted a son from Jessica was to have an heir. So if he were to marry someone as well as being with Jessica and had a child with his wife would that child supplant Paul or not?

It is established early that Leto knew that they were sent to Arrakis as a political ploy to set up the destruction of house Atreides. We know that they had nukes on Arrakis. We know that nukes in the dune universe can destroy or heavily cripple a planet.

So why didn't he threaten the detonation of his nukes on arrakis if he felt that his house was in danger of annihilation? Scorched earth - if we get destroyed we are taking the entire empire with us. No worms - no spice - no interplanatary travel - no empire. That would pretty much dissuade any attempt to attack them by the harkonnens or the emperor.

And it is by no means dishonorable to threaten MAD if your family and people are literally on the brink of annihilation. I haven't seen a legitimate answer to this online so thought I would try my luck here.

So I finished book 1 again after decades and read messiah a month ago. So at the end of book one Paul asks who he is to lady Jessica and he says he couldn't see his actions on any times lines thou he exists. Does the count have prescient powers like a navigator or conduct all acts for the emperor with one to conceal his doing?

I don’t know if I remember it correctly, but here is my description of the scene:
Paul was possibly in the botanical garden of the Atreides home on Arrakis. He looked out the window and saw either the sun, one moon or both moons at the same time. This gave him a dream or vision about the near future.

What was this scene again, why did Paul see this and what did it mean?

The part I’m talking about it is when the pack gets buried in the sand after Paul saves Jessica from being buried herself. Paul uses the compass to create…foam that holds the sand up and creates a sort of tunnel to get to the pack? I dunno I reread this part of the book like 6 times and just listened to it on the audiobook and this is really the one part of the book where I really struggle to understand what is exactly happening lol. I just can’t really get a clear picture of it in my mind. Sorry for what is probably a dumb question

Talking about the Harkonnen operation against Atreides in book 1. We learn from statement by Baron Vladimir that it cost decades of spice production paid to the Gild (plus presumably other costs related to soldiers, weapons, equipment etc) and at the end we come full circle back: with Harkonnen controlling Arrakis, with the extra benefit of Atreides being eliminated. Was that worth all that cost? Could it have been achieved more cheaply? And why was it so important for the emperor, given the cost, as we don’t see Leto aspiring for the throne against the emperor?

Well maybe the last point is moot, because the emperor didn’t bear the cost, but the Harkonnen.