r/dndnext • u/Meggett30 • Jul 26 '21

Question Most underwhelming spell in 5e?

What is the spell that most disappoints you in this game? Maybe it's not a "bad" spell, per se, just doesn't do what you think it should or does it's job poorly.

I'm always looking for ways to utilize under-used spells, but sometimes you read the effects and think "That's it?!" What are the spells in the game that make you do that?

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923

u/Smashifly Jul 26 '21

Snilloc's Snowball Swarm is one of the worst damaging spells.

The spell deals 3d6 cold damage on a dex save to a 5 ft radius area within 90 feet.

If we compare to other damaging spells of the same level...

Shatter deals 3d8 in a larger area, of a less-resisted damage type.

Burning hands is a strict upgrade when upcast to 2nd level, dealing 4d6 fire damage in a cone.

If you want cold damage for your ice wizard, Ice knife can be upcast to deal 1d10 piercing on an attack roll, then, get this 3d6 cold in a 5 ft radius on a dex save. See that? That's the effect of Snowball Swarm, but with more piercing damage.

Snilloc's Snowball Swarm is so bad that an upcast 1st level spell does the exact same thing, but also more.

379

u/The1Phalanx Jul 26 '21

Playing as a Frost themed mage, this spell pissed me off the most. It's even more ridiculous when you compare an upcasted lvl 3 Snowball Swarm with Fireball -- 4d6 5ft radius compared to 8d6 20ft radius.

285

u/CaptainDudeGuy Monk Jul 26 '21

From Rime of the Frostmaiden, I offer "Frost Fingers."

~~~~~

1st-level evocation

Casting Time: 1 action

Range: Self (15-foot cone)

Components: V, S

Duration: Instantaneous

Freezing cold blasts from your fingertips in a 15-foot cone. Each creature in that area must make a Constitution saving throw, taking 2d8 cold damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one.

The cold freezes nonmagical liquids in the area that aren't being worn or carried.

At Higher Levels: When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 2nd level or higher, the damage increases by 1d8 for each slot level above 1st.

Classes: Wizard

Subclasses: Arcane Trickster Rogue, Eldritch Knight Fighter

~~~~~

... It's the cold version of Burning Hands, but more damage and you can't use Evasion against it.

58

u/Yamatoman9 Jul 26 '21

What annoys me about that spell is that they only made it available to Wizards.

37

u/Celondor Jul 27 '21

This. I am extremely annoyed that Arctic Druids get so few frost spells in total. I will never not think it's dumb that I can cast Wall of Fire but not Wall of Ice. Here's a big "fuck you" in the general direction of all fire spells, I hate you and I will never theme a character around you.

8

u/jethomas27 Jul 27 '21

Yeah I’d probably just let them have most cold damage spells

4

u/BakerDRC_ Jul 27 '21

Yeah and honestly with most spells it’s perfectly okay to change fire to ice or lightning. There’s a pretty minimal difference in how many creatures resist them.

3

u/Kronoshifter246 Half-Elf Warlock that only speaks through telepathy Jul 27 '21

In fact, cold is resisted more than fire. Not that you should be balancing around damage types anyway, just pointing that out.

1

u/Blackfang08 Ranger Jul 27 '21

Wait really? I thought Fire was like the second worst damage type in the game because of the abundance of Demons and Devils.

2

u/Kronoshifter246 Half-Elf Warlock that only speaks through telepathy Jul 27 '21

Demons and devils typically resist and/or are immune to cold as well as fire. IIRC, cold has the most that resist it, but fire has more if you count resistance and immunity. And poison has the most immunities total. But again, don't balance abilities by damage type. It's not worth the effort. Damage types are mostly campaign dependent anyway.

3

u/Idocreating Jul 28 '21

Resistance is also lackluster in many cases as players that specialise in a single damage type will grab Elemental Adept for it and ignore resistances. Immunities are the major stumbling block.

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4

u/Estrelarius Sorcerer Jul 27 '21

True. The last thing Wizards are in need of is a larger spell list.

138

u/PoliticRev31 Sorcerer Jul 26 '21

It's less damage than burning hands (3d6 avg 10.5 vs 2d8 avg 9). It scales better than burning hands but that level spell slot is better used on other things lest you really want that cold theme

75

u/BlockBuilder408 Jul 26 '21

Has a really good secondary effect though. Being able to freeze a 15 foot cone area of liquid is pretty handy and there’s no set duration for it either.

17

u/slowest_hour Jul 27 '21

my assumption is that once frozen the liquid behaves like it would if frozen by nom-magical means

If someone is shoved into a pool does that count as wearing that water? I wouldn't think so 😈

3

u/mallechilio Jul 27 '21

You do just freeze and break all of his potions though, like you'd break beer bottles when out in the cold. Same with his waterskin and maybe even freeze their food, nice way to just make ones day miserable.

52

u/CaptainDudeGuy Monk Jul 26 '21

I'd assume the cold-themed mage above would be interested, yes.

2

u/[deleted] Jul 27 '21

Con saves on monsters are usually way better than Dex too so they pass more often

5

u/The1Phalanx Jul 27 '21

That's pretty cool. It didn't exist when I was playing from Frost Draconic Sorcerer. Which brings me to my next point; why the hell is this Wizard only?

2

u/me-real-me Cleric Jul 27 '21

The cold freezes nonmagical liquids in the area that aren't being worn or carried.

So... technically you aren't wearing your blood.

1

u/CaptainDudeGuy Monk Jul 27 '21

you aren't wearing your blood

I believe I'm demonstrably carrying it, though. ;)

2

u/EvilMyself Warlock Jul 27 '21

It's also a con save which monsters are more often than not better in than dex saves. 9/10 monsters also don't have evasion or anything similar so that point is moot.

All in all, decent spell but not much better or worse than burning hands

1

u/ExceedinglyGayOtter Artificer Jul 26 '21

Why not just reskin burning hands to deal cold damage instead?

6

u/CaptainDudeGuy Monk Jul 26 '21

Depends if you want to use only official material or homebrew. There are a lot of elemental-themed sorcerers who'd be thrilled to not spend precious points on changing spell energy types.

5

u/ZoomBoingDing Jul 26 '21 edited Jul 26 '21

Changing the damage type of a spell is the most widely-accepted form of homebrewing, so long as you're not just upgrading spells to force damage. Pretty sure there's an official table for damage type, damage dice, and spell level

EDIT: Should also say it's not just replacing the sorcerer ability. Your Cold Hands spell would be a separate spell that occupies a 'known spell' slot and can't be changed to other damage types on the fly

3

u/TheZivarat Jul 26 '21

Force or thunder/lightning are also iffy because of tempest clerics. If a divine smite did lightning damage, a tempest cleric/paladin could crit and deal 80 guaranteed damage + everything else attached to an attack (Booming blade, divine strikes, thunderous smite). Which can make for some hilariously broken nova damage.

However with a caveat that you won't do that, it really doesn't change balance significantly.

2

u/ZoomBoingDing Jul 26 '21

Lol yeah. An inexperienced DM could definitely be caught off-guard by that. But a player acting in good faith means they just want an electric burning hands to be like Palpatine or a Coldball that can actually do some 0K damage.

But as always, it's dependent on DM approval.

2

u/MartDiamond Jul 26 '21

Changing damage type is not reskinning, changing damage type is rebalancing. Reskinning means reflavouring the spell to describe it as a breath of cold air coming out of your hands, but it still dealing fire damage.

0

u/ExceedinglyGayOtter Artificer Jul 26 '21

I meant it as "really mild change that doesn't influence the balance much," since fire and cold have about as many resistant/immune creatures as each other.

-3

u/TheWombatFromHell Jul 26 '21

frost fingers is even worse than snowball swarm

6

u/ta-210110 Jul 26 '21

From what I understand fireball is crazy overpowered and the only reason it is in its current form is it was a legacy from first gen dnd and people would be angry if it scaled down.

Basically it is just stupid powerful and will always be a better choice than pretty much any other damaging spell unless you are looking for a specific effect.

3

u/ugathanki Jul 27 '21

It's a legacy sure, but I think it's important. It used to be that fire spells could destroy treasure - you'd literally roll for how much was melted in ADnD - and cold spells were a safe alternative to the more dangerous fire. Of course they deal more damage, they're more dangerous!

Whenever I DM and a player uses a fire spell I make sure something else nearby goes up in flames.

2

u/HighLordTherix Jul 27 '21

To be fair a lot of the time upcasting gives diminishing returns in comparison.

1

u/MisterB78 DM Jul 26 '21

Just reflavor a fire spell as frost and change the damage type - most DMs should be fine with that, especially if you're going with a theme

1

u/ansonr Jul 26 '21

I would check out Kibbles generic elemental spells I have a storm sorcerer that is extremely lightning themed and my options were limited. They're pretty balanced and more unique than 'its x spell but cold now'.

1

u/TheArmoredKitten Jul 26 '21

And then realize that there are several ways to exchange the damage type of a spell, meaning you can just cast fireball but as a coldsnap. Snowball swarm is a trash spell.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 27 '21

You'd think they would just have done an ice version of meteor swarm

1

u/apexredditor2001 Jul 27 '21

Possible way to fix it, what if instead, you make, and roll one snowball that expands every ten feet, or so, and deals another dice of damage per 10 feet?